65 replies to this topic

[G4LV4TR0N]

Which mechs got stronger and which mech got weaker after Skill Tree release? Explanations welcome.

[rustyrat]

From IS fw drop deck perspective:

Whm 6d seems pretty similar, but
Ghr movement, heat and agility has been hit.

This especially on the 3lpl some ml, main bread and butter
Xl fits.

Do note, WHM usually fits XL300 and GHR with XL335 for example. And yes, you can run Std ofc.

BLR seems ok still.
// rusty

[Zigmund Freud]

Pretty much all clam mechs have become better, since thay had not so many quirks, and omnimechs keept their omnipod-specific quirks.
Pretty much all IS mechs become weaker. Structure quirks are there, but almost all offencive quirks, that contributed a lot to balance are gone. (Before skill tree IS and clans were pretty balanced by tonnage gap. Now we have real problems)

And all lights got a buff, because they now have better sensors, and agility and structure tree have way way bigger effect on light and meds. (it's not a lights buff I was waiting for, but it's still good.)

[G4LV4TR0N]

How is Arctic Cheetah now? Most used light mech in game? Was it buffed or nerfed with Skill Tree? Was most common build with Clan Small Pulse Lasers made stronger? Same question about Locust.

[ScrapIron Prime]

The skill tree quite simply hands out new toys to everyone. It's great.

What affected mechs the most is the engine decoupling. Engine size no longer determines how fast your arms and torso move, so heavy and assault mechs got less nimble, while Medium mechs enjoy a buff by comparison. Heavy mechs can buy that maneuverability back on the skill tree, but assaults will simply be slower. (But they can get tanky and better weapon skills overall.)

[Captain Polux]

I've only been using the Ebon Jags, Hellbringers, and Cheetahs. The cooldown seems to be a bit better and I'm not shutting down as much. Other than that, I'm not noticing any significant differences.

Edit: I've used the Timber Wolf a bit and brawling is a little harder.

Edited by ThoseWhoFearTomorrow, 19 May 2017 - 07:38 AM.

[Jaybles-The-PegLeg-PotatoCaptain]

rustyrat, on 19 May 2017 - 12:39 AM, said:

From IS fw drop deck perspective:

Whm 6d seems pretty similar, but
Ghr movement, heat and agility has been hit.

This especially on the 3lpl some ml, main bread and butter
Xl fits.

Do note, WHM usually fits XL300 and GHR with XL335 for example. And yes, you can run Std ofc.

BLR seems ok still.
// rusty

You feel grasshoppers got nerfed hard, but if you look at this handy list Deathlike put together:
https://mwomercs.com...eference-sheet/

You would see that relative to other heavies, Grasshoppers made out pretty darn well in the agility department, and are actually 4 'levels' ahead of warhammers.

[Y E O N N E]

G4LV4TR0N, on 19 May 2017 - 07:18 AM, said:

How is Arctic Cheetah now? Most used light mech in game? Was it buffed or nerfed with Skill Tree? Was most common build with Clan Small Pulse Lasers made stronger? Same question about Locust.

ACH is buffed. It's more inherently agile than before, the duration on its lasers got shorter, and it now gets heat-gen quirks. In both relative and absolute terms, it's a monster now.

Locust got nerfed. The 1E and 3M are not as inherently agile as they used to be, the 3S had its missile output cut nearly in half, and the 1E lost all of the remaining weapon quirks it had. You can still do 6x SPL on it, but the similarly common 6xMedLas build must be reduced to 5x for heat reasons, at which point the LCT-3M is the better option since it retains cooldown quirks.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 19 May 2017 - 07:58 AM.

[HGAK47]

I love the shadowhawk now. The decoupling seemed to work wonders for my lol builds with small engines!

Edit - Also feels like hardpoint location is even more important now however?

Edited by HGAK47, 19 May 2017 - 08:11 AM.

[mogs01gt]

Zigmund Freud, on 19 May 2017 - 12:44 AM, said:

Pretty much all clam mechs have become better, since thay had not so many quirks, and omnimechs keept their omnipod-specific quirks.
Pretty much all IS mechs become weaker. Structure quirks are there, but almost all offencive quirks, that contributed a lot to balance are gone. (Before skill tree IS and clans were pretty balanced by tonnage gap. Now we have real problems)

And all lights got a buff, because they now have better sensors, and agility and structure tree have way way bigger effect on light and meds. (it's not a lights buff I was waiting for, but it's still good.)

That isnt accurate.

Clan mechs with large engines got nerfed
IS mechs who typically run smaller engines got a buff
Lights, well it depends on which light.

[Hobbles v]

Universally everything got worse in most respects.

Quirkless top tier mechs suffered the least and thus got "better"

Hellbringers, ebons, night gyrs and Maurader iic.

The mechs that suffered most were those that had agility quirks and did not receive better base stats to compensate for the loss somewhat. Mk1 orions, archers, warhammers etc

Most things are weaker than before but in relation to other things I conclude the following:

Lights got weaker
Pop tarts got stronger
Dakka and gauss stayed level
Laser vomit got hit hard
Srm brawlers got stronger in thier optimal conditions bUT even more situational due to agility losses and probable range losses
Mid range trade got weaker
Lrms got stronger.
Medium mechs got stronger
Streaks got stronger

As a whole I would say on average the top tier clan mechs are 90% as good as they used to be.
Top tier IS mechs are only 75% as good as they used to be. I'm betting they are banking on laser rework and the civil war tech to close the gap. Unfortunately this means IS is getting ****Ed until then (and probably after that too)

[Y E O N N E]

mogs01gt, on 19 May 2017 - 08:14 AM, said:

That isnt accurate.

Clan mechs with large engines got nerfed
IS mechs who typically run smaller engines got a buff
Lights, well it depends on which light.

That's not accurate either. Clan Omnis with small engines also got nerfed. Even the Mist Lynx.

[Wattila]

Jaybles, on 19 May 2017 - 07:49 AM, said:

You feel grasshoppers got nerfed hard, but if you look at this handy list Deathlike put together:
https://mwomercs.com...eference-sheet/

You would see that relative to other heavies, Grasshoppers made out pretty darn well in the agility department, and are actually 4 'levels' ahead of warhammers.

Aye, can't come up with a reason to use a WHM-6D over a GHR-5P any more. WHM has 5% range over the GHR, but other than that GHR has double structure quirks and a lot more agility, not to mention some super high hardpoints. On a similar note, I feel almost every IS mech without ample armor/structure quirks is a trashcan now, because the offensive quirks just aren't there.

[Vonbach]

Wattila, on 19 May 2017 - 08:57 AM, said:

Aye, can't come up with a reason to use a WHM-6D over a GHR-5P any more. WHM has 5% range over the GHR, but other than that GHR has double structure quirks and a lot more agility, not to mention some super high hardpoints. On a similar note, I feel almost every IS mech without ample armor/structure quirks is a trashcan now, because the offensive quirks just aren't there.

Basically its clanwarrior online now IS mechs are mostly dead. Brawling is mostly dead too.
Clans got buffs across the board aside from 100 ton mechs. 100 ton mechs are so slow they
are useless.

[Baron Zen]

I would say every mech got improvements in their jobs,brawler missiles aremore effective and pinpointed, lrm spam is everyhwere, laser mechs get better heat management, new meta is: go all on the roofs with jetpacks and snipe, etc; but beside of mechs which were used and keep to be used there are a couple which i found to got a new life with this skill tree:

1. Atlas 7D, more armor, more critical chance resistance (25%+8%)which helps that ac20 to stay alive, more internal structure, better range/cooldown/heat managament for alpha strikes thanks to firepower tree benefiting all weapons, a walking fortress!

2. Firestarter-S 10% heat reduction plus 10% from fireweapon tree, a lot of extra range with laser duration reduction, 7 medium laser boat effective and rarely overheat!

[Vonbach]

[

Baron Zen, on 19 May 2017 - 09:24 AM, said:

I would say every mech got improvements in their jobs,brawler missiles aremore effective and pinpointed, lrm spam is everyhwere, laser mechs get better heat management, new meta is: go all on the roofs with jetpacks and snipe, etc; but beside of mechs which were used and keep to be used there are a couple which i found to got a new life with this skill tree:

1. Atlas 7D, more armor, more critical chance resistance (25%+8%)which helps that ac20 to stay alive, more internal structure, better range/cooldown/heat managament for alpha strikes thanks to firepower tree benefiting all weapons, a walking fortress!

It also cant torso twist because of the engine decouple. Meaning it has to facetank. Its also so slow its basically a turret.

[Baron Zen]

Vonbach, on 19 May 2017 - 09:29 AM, said:

[


It also cant torso twist because of the engine decouple. Meaning it has to facetank. Its also so slow its basically a turret.

Well not really mine goes at 61kph like before and my torso twist is pretty decent with agility tree just the speed circle, i equipped it with 350 engine std, 4 med pulse, 1 ac 20, 2 srm6+artemis, ams.

[mogs01gt]

Yeonne Greene, on 19 May 2017 - 08:43 AM, said:

That's not accurate either. Clan Omnis with small engines also got nerfed. Even the Mist Lynx.

Bad mechs will always be bad.

Edited by mogs01gt, 19 May 2017 - 09:35 AM.

[Johnny Z]

The Wolverine is stronger. Maybe the Centurian to a lesser degree also.

Took the loyalty Centurian out for a run and it has never been more fun.

Edited by Johnny Z, 19 May 2017 - 09:52 AM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

So far I have seen nothing but improvements but I have only spec'ed out a few of my mechs.

My Dragonslayer felt hugely improved. I had been treating it as a DOA mech since the JJ nerfs so I decided it would be my sacrificial lamb for my first test and I was surprised. I spec'ed it full JJ and Agility and it actually, kind of feels something like it did back when it was a good mech. What is more is that with the full JJ build, I can actually jump to the top of the ridges on Canyon Network again which is a huge improvement. The mech is still obsolete but it went from DOA to usable which is great.

My PHX-2 seemed to find a fair amount of improvement as well. I managed to buy back its lost agility and for all intents and purposes it is back to pretty much exactly how it was before the new skill tree with one big difference.....it is alot more durable now due to the Armor Structure tree. This makes the mech significantly improved.

My Huntsman also got significantly improved. Before I felt it was a good mech but suffered from agility and durability issues however with the new skill trees, it can be made significantly more agile and durable correcting those previous flaws.

My Viper has improved in much the same way as my PHX. It's main disadvantage was its durability but with the Armor Structure tree, you can add quite a bit of durability to it thus improving it fairly significantly.

Now where I think I might see issues is mechs that are at the upper end of their weight spectrum or mechs that weight in at 35, 55, 75 and at 90-100 tons in the assaults. I mean if they set the baseline mobility at the middle tonnage, then it stands to reason that the top of each weight class got a significant nerf to mobility. Tonight, now that I am more comfortable and confident in my skill selections, I plan on specing out my top performing mechs like the MAD IIC, Timbys and such this weeks so maybe I will have something different to report.