94 replies to this topic

[Sierra3]

Here is my input (from a lowly tier 5 PUG) about LRMs. Are they overpowered? No. Can they be annoying? Yes. Also, I actually run Archers with LRMs. However, I always have backup, close-in weapons as well...SRMs, machineguns, small/medium lasers or their pulse versions. Additionally, I spend the tonnage on either a TAG, Beagle Probe, or Artemis...and all three if I can fit them.

Normally, I try to be 50-100 meters behind the front lines. Sometimes I am the frontline (while mechs w/ lasers/gauss and/or PPCs are sitting in the back sniping) even though there are heavier, better armored mechs on the field. Sometimes I am on the frontline sharing armor. My preferred range of engagement is under 700m, and I consider 200-300m the sweet spot (every weapon, including secondaries, can be brought to bear, terrain permitting). This comes in handy after annoying the c*** out of the opposing side. They come to take me out thinking I only have LRMs, then are usually surprised when I start firing other weapons alongside the LRMs (very few people I have noticed lately press 'R').

I do not use LRMs to rack up damage... my normal damage is between 400-700. I do use LRMs to strip armor (making it easier for others to take out the mech), suppress their ability to act offensively (run for cover, move back, blind their canopy with flashing explosions), and sometimes to annoy them (making myself a big target to draw them out trying to destroy me, allowing the team and/or myself to shoot at them in the open or from a flank).

Yes, I die. Sometimes quite often, but it provides the rest of the team time to act without being fired upon. I am by far not the best, probably not what some would consider 'good,' but I am usually decent enough to pull of the role of a close fire support mech.

{How often has someone been swarmed by light mechs, calling out for help, for it to be answered by LRMs hitting the light mechs while providing time for others to get there or for the pilot to be able to get away.}

I also run dedicated AMS and/or Electronic Warfare mechs.

None of these roles are glorious or provide high rewards (C-Bills, XP, etc.) but they are necessary for a cohesive force.

**Apologize for my rambling.

[FireStoat]

Xiyumos, on 20 May 2017 - 06:41 PM, said:

LRM boats everywhere, what a glorious day to be a Kit Fox pilot. :3

I'm actually 'that guy' with the Purfier going with lasers and an A+LRM 20 w/ 3 tons of ammo and full missile quirks + full advanced target decay. In this strange environment, the combo of my mech's size, mobility (which is 'meh' but good), artemis and quirks is helping me to land a very large percentage of my ammo on a target. The bonuses are actually good enough to land missiles on enemy lights running at under 120 kph.

Edit - people are seriously underselling that crit bonus pair of quirks from the skill tree. you have to see it in action on the shooting side to fully appreciate it.

Edited by FireStoat, 20 May 2017 - 08:04 PM.

[King Chimera]

FireStoat, on 20 May 2017 - 08:03 PM, said:

I'm actually 'that guy' with the Purfier going with lasers and an A+LRM 20 w/ 3 tons of ammo and full missile quirks + full advanced target decay. In this strange environment, the combo of my mech's size, mobility (which is 'meh' but good), artemis and quirks is helping me to land a very large percentage of my ammo on a target. The bonuses are actually good enough to land missiles on enemy lights running at under 120 kph.

Edit - people are seriously underselling that crit bonus pair of quirks from the skill tree. you have to see it in action on the shooting side to fully appreciate it.

I just like to run my Purifier with the usual ECM+AMS loadout and using those great hardpoints to poke with 4 cERMLas, but is the crit damage really that good with LRMs? I have it on my SRM Archer, but haven't really noticed its effects. that's likely due to outright killing/destroying the component though.

[FuhNuGi]

Wow,
A LRM hate thread.

Never seen that before.

Move along, move along.

[Relishcakes]

roekenny, on 20 May 2017 - 08:34 AM, said:

lrms not the issue, it's the fact it breeds players who refuse to play their weight class as all special little snowflake and want to play "support" assaults and heavies. You can carry 1 or 2 but when all your 70+ tonnes all in the back and then they expect the team to get them locks and take hits. Sadly it's always been an issue but you can't reason with them as usually bring up "i get 1000+ damage per game so i can't be doing bad besides you only got 500 damage so F you." (Disregarding how all their dps slash while your precision and all them lovely locks you gave them and intel and doing their role as a off tank.) Until damage is only counts on areas what actually kill the mech and that 1000+ damage goes to 200 and their c-bill income slows down to a crawl with they take notice. Until them radar dep, ecm and ams your mechs and constantly break locks to put a middle finger up at your lrm pilots and do not encourage them.

I feel like discouraging ALL lrms is a bad idea but definitely encouraging heavies and assaults to NOT go full ****** is the course of action needed here....entirely ignoring the catapult as a heavy who is essentially designed to missile all the things.

[Galenit]

QuantumButler, on 20 May 2017 - 06:08 PM, said:

LRMs are still not great, but better than they used to be, hardly overpowered though.

If you think they are you haven't seen the past 4 or so great LRMpocalypses friendo.

My C1 had 20% lrm cooldown and velocity.
Now it has 15% cooldown and 10% velocity (and some less range too), with 47 points invested in firepower.

25% less cooldown and 50% less velocity (and less range) for 47 skillpoints!
Thats a big nerf!

No, lrms are not better,
but people dont know how to play without the crutch and still dont take ams,
thats what makes their usage easier and let them look better.

Edit:
I missed the old cooldown module.
With it. the cooldown was 32,5 and now its down to 10%.

Edited by Galenit, 21 May 2017 - 12:07 AM.

[Lykaon]

Sierra3, on 20 May 2017 - 08:02 PM, said:

Normally, I try to be 50-100 meters behind the front lines. Sometimes I am the frontline (while mechs w/ lasers/gauss and/or PPCs are sitting in the back sniping) even though there are heavier, better armored mechs on the field. Sometimes I am on the frontline sharing armor. My preferred range of engagement is under 700m, and I consider 200-300m the sweet spot (every weapon, including secondaries, can be brought to bear, terrain permitting). This comes in handy after annoying the c*** out of the opposing side. They come to take me out thinking I only have LRMs, then are usually surprised when I start firing other weapons alongside the LRMs (very few people I have noticed lately press 'R').

I do not use LRMs to rack up damage... my normal damage is between 400-700. I do use LRMs to strip armor (making it easier for others to take out the mech), suppress their ability to act offensively (run for cover, move back, blind their canopy with flashing explosions), and sometimes to annoy them (making myself a big target to draw them out trying to destroy me, allowing the team and/or myself to shoot at them in the open or from a flank).

So I have this Butterbee Catapult build I used to run (and wil probably take it out for a spin again soon)

It's a 280XL engine endo steel 13 DHS 2 jumpjet 4x LRM5 and THREE LARGE LASERS.

I capitalized the large lasers because for what ever reason nobody sees them on my loadout until they have charged the " LRM boat".

My mech has 15 tons of laser and only 8 tons of missile launchers yet all the bad guys seem to notice is the endless stream of LRM5 spam raining on them so they charge and get a leg amputated with the large lasers for their troubles.

The only real down side to this build was it lacked a TAG or BAP so countering ECM could be an issue but now with ECM being nerfed a bit and requiring skill points investment to optimize it I may get some more play out of my favorite "troller"

[Lorcryst NySell]

Ultimax, on 20 May 2017 - 05:44 PM, said:

I know it's hard for you to hear the truth about your choice in weapons - so by all means stick your fingers in your ears and continue to pretend that LRMs take skill and are good weapons.

One could say that you're also sticking fingers in ears ...

Do you know that a *good* LRM pilot doesn't hide but gets his own locks, is able to "shoot around corners" in close range fights, AND thinks about point-blank defense ?

It takes very little skill to stick a launcher or two on a chassis, but it takes much more player skill to effectively use LRMs ... and they're demonstratably inferior to other weapon systems in terms of damage, speed, and more.

Bashing LRMs as useless, crutch or noob weapons is ignoring the reality.

[Buster Machine 0]

PGI is just trying to make AMS more viable by buffing LRMs.

And so far it's working, I'm seeing a lot more AMS in drops nowadays.

[Fox With A Shotgun]

Indeed. My Iron Dome kitfox loves this current environment. Full of delicious LRMs and streaks

Seriously, bring an AMS if you're that concerned about the LRM uptick. 1 AMS can actually mitigate quite a significant number of missiles.

[pyrocomp]

El Bandito, on 20 May 2017 - 07:58 AM, said:

At most two tons per ten tons of ammo. Not terribly impressive.

Three tons of ammo out of twelve leaves enough space to mount defensive SLs or upgrade SLs to SPLs (likewise, MLs and MPLs). Not a secondary offensive weapon, sure, but a defensive option for othewise unanswering prey for meduims/lights.

PS: and thats above simplier options like TAG, BAP or engine upgrade, even an extra heat sink won't hurt as LRMs are not heat free.

Edited by pyrocomp, 21 May 2017 - 02:23 AM.

[STEF_]

Mcgral18, on 20 May 2017 - 07:24 AM, said:

It's funny, people are asking bad weapons to be nerfed

I hope many many many will read this kind of threads, so everybody thinking lrm are super good.

Give me more lurmers pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez

[pyrocomp]

Stefka Kerensky, on 21 May 2017 - 03:44 AM, said:

I hope many many many will read this kind of threads, so everybody thinking lrm are super good.

Give me more lurmers pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez

With a couple of competent NARCers? Are you sure?

[meteorol]

I have yet to die from LRMS after the skilltree. And that is with spending 0 points on sensors on every mech, and with ~ 150-200 LRM tubes on the enemy team every single match.

Lrms remain terrible weapons, and 9/10 people using them are dragging their teams down.

[Ultimax]

Lorcryst NySell, on 21 May 2017 - 12:43 AM, said:

Do you know that a *good* LRM pilot doesn't hide but gets his own locks, is able to "shoot around corners" in close range fights, AND thinks about point-blank defense ?

Any pilot who only plays by getting their own locks, and shares armor with the team - is a pilot that would be serving themselves & their team better with a different weapon choice.


LRMs have a low skill barrier to entry, and a low skill ceiling for performance (Read: easy to use, low cap on performance) - this is why they are widely regarded as potato tier weapons or weapons that are only good to take advantage of the disarray that is the solo queue.

Edited by Ultimax, 21 May 2017 - 05:22 AM.

[Znail]

LRM's are kind of self balancing and right now a bit behind the curve. This leads to many people skipping out on radar deprivation, but that in turn makes LRM's better. If more people picks radar deprivation then LRM's gets much worse.

[Sebaztien Hawke]

Looks like I have the unpopular opinion, then...

LRMs sap the fun out of the game. Just mount some guns and get up in my face and fight, please. If I lose I won't care, because that's a proper way to die circa 3050 AD. The public quick match games already suffer from a far too many players hesitant to push forward, take some risks and mix it up. Too many players are indecisive, will hang back and trade mostly ineffectual fire across a kilometre of terrain. When one or both teams are mounting a LRM based load out, people become even more reluctant to close the distance.

I typically don't care if my mech dies as long as it's a "good death", but LRMs are not a good death.

*rant starts here.... Missile volleys need more spread so that they carpet an area but don't fly like magic bullets along the same curve. Defensive equipment should outclass indirect fire missiles so they are not viable as a primary weapon if opposing players choose to take / max-out anti missile equipment. That should also be early in the skill tree. We don't have realistic tech like UAVs which swarm out and put NARC and TAG lasers on everything so that drone LRM launchers a dozen kilometres away can attack without putting a human in danger because mech combat is supposed to be stylised, viseral, impractical, ceremonial, close up and linked with honour and prestige. LRMs would be what the filthy commoners went to war with. Maybe It should be against fuedal law for them to even engage a mech preemptively. 'Noble' MechWarriors duke it out with LBX, RAC and pulse lasers, dammit! Victory should be decided by who can shoot and move best in each instance.... Alrighty, rant ends *

With MechWarrior 5 Mercenaries finally being made (the game MWO should have been), and HBS' BattleTech game out soon, MWO needs to keep it's paying customers from feeling frustrated and aggrieved... LRM "spam" needs to be discouraged as not in the intended spirit of the game, and if not actively punished then at least not well rewarded. It should be in the game, but it shouldn't dictate an engagement. A PC game is not tabletop.... some factors outweigh others when balancing a PC game. If MWO becomes unenjoyable for players who prefer closer ranged, direct fire combat, then at least the single player games are close now to fill the void. It's going to be interesting to see how player numbers are affected by those releases.

TL;DR - Some players don't enjoy masses of LRM fire dealing more damage than direct fire weapons. If it isn't fun, they won't play. That makes it an issue the developers can't ignore with other 'mech games about to compete for players and their limited, precious gaming time.

[Tordin]

Mcgral18, on 20 May 2017 - 07:24 AM, said:

It's funny, people are asking bad weapons to be nerfed

Yeah. Its F disgusting. Use cover and all those other counter to LRM. Adapt!

[R Valentine]

If you aren't on Polar Highlands, LRMs are harmless. If you're on Polar Highlands and you get narced, just disconnect. Your time is better spent else where.

[A Really Old Clan Dude]

oldradagast, on 20 May 2017 - 09:27 AM, said:

Hiding in the back is not limited to LRM users. There are no shortage of mechs that hide in the back, ineffectively "sniping" or spewing laser vomit all over random targets and locations. Pretending this is purely an LRM issue is simply inaccurate, and demanding the game somehow only "count damage that counts" is just plain silly - ALL damage counts in MWO. There's no healing or regeneration. So, yes, thank your LRM' wielders if they strip off 25% of a mech's armor all over by the time it gets into meaningful combat with you since that damage does count.

Now, horrible LRM builds ARE an issue. The ones where people forget to bring direct fire weapons - or bring 1 medium laser - and then stupidly when the fight gets within minimum range of their LRM's. I'm not sure why such bad builds are commong with LRM's, but they are.

totally agree, ran my timber LRM build last night 4*lrm10+atr + 5 SPL, still gave it good spread of skills, managed to get it just over 1000 range for the LRMs but kept the speed skills.
As always I stay with the mediums/ other heavies just behind the main front line. If I see a light at 900 I ignore it unless I have a real good line of sight onto it or some one is dueling it. Some pugs just fire away at anything they get a lock on.
I concentrate on the heavies and assaults as they are slow, you can almost pick the ones who have not taken radar derp or the mobility tree as they pull back behind cover.
Once my missiles are at 25% i start to move in and become a brawler.
Worst game 400+ best game 900+ for the night.

LRM's can work in quick play, they do not work in faction play though, that is where all the negativity stems from.