82 replies to this topic

[Otto Cannon]

This seems fair and reasonable to finally balance the OP superweapon which has always dominated competitive play and ensured that only noobs and filthy casuals use those weak pinpoint damage direct fire weapons.

[Logan812]

1. Keep LRM stats (as well as all other weapon stats) the same as Battletech. It worked for every other MechWarrior game - there's no excuse for it not to work here.

2. Use MechWarrior 4's hardpoint system.

Done. That's at least 90% of MWO's weapon balancing problems solved right there. Plus, the hardpoint system is much closer to what you find in Battletech itself which also brings MWO closer to the "Battletech game" PGI claims MWO is. It would also eliminate A LOT of min-maxing and meta builds.

However, if there are still some balancing issues, then you can go in and adjust those specific weapons as necessary instead of always trying to do the "one size fits all" balancing systems that never work and break more than they fix.

Edited by Logan812, 22 May 2017 - 12:00 AM.

[Shifty McSwift]

cazidin, on 21 May 2017 - 04:31 PM, said:

Crit chance reduced to negative values. You now have a small chance to actually restore health to your target up to 110% of their armor values.

Well that is why they call them Luxury Repair Missiles.

[Bishop Steiner]

cazidin, on 21 May 2017 - 04:31 PM, said:

Greetings MechWarriors. Today I have a simple idea. Let's nerf LRMs! (Again.)

Here's how I'd nerf LRMs, personally.

Maximum range reduced to 600m.
Damage reduced to 0.9 per missile for IS and 0.8 per missile for Clan.
Heat increased by 10.5%.
Velocity reduced to 80 M/s.
Lock can only be established on direct fire and with TAG.
Artemis effects reduced by roughly 30%.
Crit chance reduced to negative values. You now have a small chance to actually restore health to your target up to 110% of their armor values.
LRMs now travel in a direct arc and will hit every single small rock in their path, like an Assault trying to navigate rocky terrain.
Ghost heat on LRMs changed. Firing 2 or more LRM5s, 1 or more LRM10s, or even having equipped LRM15s and LRM20s will incur a significant heat penalty.

Mad Dog and Archer given negative quirks. Catapult OK.

What does everybody think of my fair and reasonable proposed changes?

How to nerf LRMs?

Learn to use terrain for cover and concealment. Add in Radar Derp and AMS as needed.

LRMs nerfed

[Vellron2005]

Novakaine, on 21 May 2017 - 04:39 PM, said:

+1

OP, seems to me you must have met me in my LURM Dog on the battlefield, cose' you obviously have a beef against LRMs.. you cray cray..

I suggest you go out, have a few drinks, meditate, and then come back.. you'll feel better and won't make such ridiculous posts..

[Shifty McSwift]

Vellron2005, on 22 May 2017 - 12:26 AM, said:

I suggest you go out, have a few drinks, meditate, and then come back.. you'll feel better and won't make such ridiculous posts..

But its cazidin... It's his thing..

[Koniving]

I know it's a joke, but if you want to simultaineously nerf the annoyance of LRMs and buff their usefulness...

Double their damage.
Half their firing rate.
Increase their speed by another 60m/s to 120m/s.
Reduce their turning capability (proportionately to the speed increase). Artemis allows more course corrections as it does currently. TAG allows for the turns to be 25% sharper. Combine for 25% more turns and 25% sharper turns. Give NARC same effect as TAG. (Do not change lock time bonuses.)
Increase their arc significantly.
Reduce the number of missiles per ton to 120 to 140 without mad missile packin' skillz.

They hit hard. (And feel like missiles.)
They fire less often. (No more pointless spam).
They are very fast.
They can't turn for crap, so they can still be dodged at long ranges.
They fly up and over, allowing them to be useful against sniper mechs (which tend to be slow enough to not evade their missiles).
Since LRMs deliver far more damage and fire less often, having so much ammo for the 'waste' fire is not necessary. Though the reduced ammo does require you to be a little more tactful with your missiles.

There, a serious nerf/buff of LRMs with the idea of making them viably useful while keeping co-op play (TAG, NARC and self-Artemis) and counter play in mind.

[Victor Morson]

It warms my heart to see two pages of the appropriate response to this suggestion.

Also lol at the people chiming in with serious nerf ideas because people can't figure out how to buy anti-LRM modules and equipment.

Koniving, on 22 May 2017 - 12:30 AM, said:

There, a serious nerf/buff of LRMs with the idea of making them viably useful while keeping co-op play (TAG, NARC and self-Artemis) and counter play in mind.

Most of the ship has sailed on this because even now, when PGI is making much better decisions overall, they're still really afraid to touch the fire rates of 99% of weapons. To the point we got that awful Gauss charge thing because they couldn't comprehend the idea of slowing the ROF to half.

[Logan812]

Victor Morson, on 22 May 2017 - 12:32 AM, said:

To the point we got that awful Gauss charge thing because they couldn't comprehend the idea of slowing the ROF to half.

Which, by the way, makes no damn sense considering the fact that gauss rifles being always charged is the reason why they explode when critted.

PGI: When you can't figure out how to balance basic Battletech weapons (something which EVERY preceding MW game has figured out,) just make **** up. It's just one small thing in an entire mountain of stupidity, so why not?

Edited by Logan812, 22 May 2017 - 12:47 AM.

[Shifty McSwift]

Logan812, on 22 May 2017 - 12:45 AM, said:

Which, by the way, makes no damn sense considering the fact that gauss rifles are always charged is the reason why they explode when critted.

It makes more sense for PPC weapons to need a charge time if anything, but honestly the charge timer is a decent enough way to balance the PPFLD nature of gauss, PPC balancing lying in the heat and splash damage works fine too, but does not for gauss, so, makes sense for balancing terms at least.

[Karl Streiger]

Koniving, on 22 May 2017 - 12:30 AM, said:

I know it's a joke, but if you want to simultaineously nerf the annoyance of LRMs and buff their usefulness...

Double their damage.
Half their firing rate.
Increase their speed by another 60m/s to 120m/s.
Reduce their turning capability (proportionately to the speed increase). Artemis allows more course corrections as it does currently. TAG allows for the turns to be 25% sharper. Combine for 25% more turns and 25% sharper turns. Give NARC same effect as TAG. (Do not change lock time bonuses.)
Increase their arc significantly.
Reduce the number of missiles per ton to 120 to 140 without mad missile packin' skillz.

They hit hard. (And feel like missiles.)
They fire less often. (No more pointless spam).
They are very fast.
They can't turn for crap, so they can still be dodged at long ranges.
They fly up and over, allowing them to be useful against sniper mechs (which tend to be slow enough to not evade their missiles).
Since LRMs deliver far more damage and fire less often, having so much ammo for the 'waste' fire is not necessary. Though the reduced ammo does require you to be a little more tactful with your missiles.

There, a serious nerf/buff of LRMs with the idea of making them viably useful while keeping co-op play (TAG, NARC and self-Artemis) and counter play in mind.

No its no joke - LRMs need to be viable when used with LOS - in this field they suck - the only power they own is to hit targets you don't see - so you need to nerf this ability.

With a high arc (long travel times) plus highly reduced turn ability (maybe much more spread) they become the artillery weapon.

An alternative might approach when PGI get their ATM dynamic damage system on the road.
In this case - you might have two modes - direct fire - high velocity missiles with adequate damage - or indirect low velocity low damage.

An third alternative - turn omnipotent indirect LRMs - into semi guided LRMs - TAG or NARC are needed without LOS

[PyckenZot]

Nerfing lurms 101

1/ Bring AMS
0/ Stay in the open and let enemy UAVs live
1/ Get in cover and kill enemy UVAs

[RestosIII]

Vellron2005, on 22 May 2017 - 12:26 AM, said:

and won't make such ridiculous posts..

If Cazidin stops making posts like these, he's been replaced by a Synth and must be avenged.

[Karl Streiger]

PyckenZot, on 22 May 2017 - 01:25 AM, said:

Nerfing lurms 101

1/ Bring AMS
0/ Stay in the open and let enemy UAVs live
1/ Get in cover and kill enemy UVAs

only a LURM player could post these

the only true answer is manouver - and I'm talking about you - yes you in your Light Mech and you in your fast medium.... why do you try to outsnipe assaults - wouldn't it be great to use that god given speed to go the long route - oh not over the hill - the long way around the field to - put some SRMs and red and green lasers in the back of LRMs?

manovuer beats cover when it comes to LRM because LRM work superior in the FFF world
(Fix (LRM) Flank (NASCAR) Finish)

however manouver under the "view" of LRM Mechs and not playing a >800 armor point Atlas is not a good option

Edited by Karl Streiger, 22 May 2017 - 02:39 AM.

[RestosIII]

Karl Streiger, on 22 May 2017 - 02:39 AM, said:

yes you in your Light Mech

I know you aren't aiming it at me, but I ain't doin' anything other than sniping in my Adder Prime. You can't pay me enough C-Bills to- Okay, bad example, I'll do anything for money, but you get what I mean. So you should specify "fast" light mechs.

[Karl Streiger]

RestosIII, on 22 May 2017 - 02:48 AM, said:

I know you aren't aiming it at me, but I ain't doin' anything other than sniping in my Adder Prime. You can't pay me enough C-Bills to- Okay, bad example, I'll do anything for money, but you get what I mean. So you should specify "fast" light mechs.

Everything above 70kph is fast (for an Assault Player )

Edited by Karl Streiger, 22 May 2017 - 02:50 AM.

[RestosIII]

Karl Streiger, on 22 May 2017 - 02:50 AM, said:

Everything above 70kph is fast (for an Assault Player )

Sure doesn't feel like it in that little hot box. She's my pride and joy, but unless the match is on the line, she's staying out of everyone's way, and definitely not going on a flanking mission. That's the job of my Javelin when the new tech comes out.

[Steel Mayhem]

LRMs are fine.

1 : Actually equip an AMS system, it's not going to totally kill your MOAR firepower mantra.
2 : Put skill points into AMS overload, maybe even go further and get Radar Deprivation
3 : Stick with others that have AMS and watch all the LRMs die. They have a counter now so at end of match you see just how many missiles you've killed. My Jester runs 2 AMS and routinely end of match I have over 1000 missiles killed. That's a lot of damage negation.
4 : Stop posting these LRM Nerf posts. Put some critical thinking in how to deal with them. A well balanced mech just feels better to pilot, not just a single weapon/meta boating stomp monster.

The new skill system is a change, and people don't like change as a general rule. The skills compliment the systems on a mech now. You have ECM, put skill points into it. You have Ballistics, there is a skill point for that too. I could harp a while how the new system compliments build types/styles rather well instead of every mech you build having the same setup on a different chassis.

Edited by SteelScrunchie, 22 May 2017 - 03:08 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Tyler Valentine, on 21 May 2017 - 05:13 PM, said:

Why the f#*k are we NERFing a terrible weapon system?

because the territerribads make the wepaon still OP.

[Victor Morson]

Karl Streiger, on 22 May 2017 - 12:52 AM, said:

No its no joke - LRMs need to be viable when used with LOS - in this field they suck - the only power they own is to hit targets you don't see - so you need to nerf this ability.

People really do not realize how little concentrated damage they do when you are out of LOS. The spread is atrocious and so is the tracking rate, unless you've got a NARC stuck to you. You can avoid most of the missiles and they'll just pepper you with light damage if you can find cover at best.

Indirect fire is a boogieman that has no fangs.