425 replies to this topic

[meteorol]

Limiting it to "seasoned" players doesn't help CW. CW is riddled by the "permabads". Players who have been playing for years now, but literally don't get better, ever.

Do you really think MWO is attracting new players at a rate that would explain the rampant terribadness in CW nowadays? Hell no. It is filled with people who would pass every "seasoned" filter you can put on them, and still fail to produce more than 500 damage.

One, literally one filter that would "maybe" do anything in that regard is limiting CW to T2 and upwards. It wouldn't really fix things because PSR is a XP bar that really only keeps the worst of the worst in T4 and below. There would still be a huge skill gap between top players and players that needed 3000 hours to get to T2.

That aside, judging from average playerskill in CW, excluding T5 and 4 would probably cut away ~ half of its playerbase. I'm not really sure the mode would be able to take such a hit. Give how low CWs playerbase already is.

Edited by meteorol, 28 May 2017 - 03:09 AM.

[Ssamout]

The Basilisk, on 28 May 2017 - 01:29 AM, said:

The same discussion over and over again.

A minority wants to get their secluded tryhard land out of a gamemode that belongs to everyone while the real pros are long gone, playing their leagues in lobby matches.

Well to make it short.
It is the other way round.
Its not the lowby PuGs that have to be restricted.
Create an FP XP level, stop rewarding High XP ppl for teaming up and sealclubbing low XP ppl.
--> Incentive for low XP people to team up and for High XP ppl to go solo for max rewards.

Contain predators and empower the normals.

YEAH. If you are good at this game, you really deserve the Stick.

*Ducking tryhards ruining it all by loving the game, playing as it was meant and being good at it. Stop it already, if you are doing over 2k - uninstall.

[Fireeagle]

no

easy said : in that way FW will be verry verry empty soon, Players will be pissed for not beeing allowed to participate in the whole game etc..

[H I A S]

if u cut out average Joe u are left with maybe 5 players in CW on a regular basis.

Quote

Contain predators and empower the normals.

Maybe l2p?

Edited by H I A S, 28 May 2017 - 04:04 AM.

[Pat Kell]

sub2000, on 28 May 2017 - 02:47 AM, said:

After reading the forums I have two rather rhetorical questions.
1. It is impossible not to notice that there is aversion against meta. Meta builds (builds optimized around hardpoints and quirks) are as the word "optimized" implies, are easiest to play right. Using them is the best way to learn, but there is aversion against it. Isn't it because of the meta adepts and their way of communicating?
2. Why the population of the FW is that low?
3.Why KCOM are so against splitting queues?
They claim that they don't like to slaughter skittles (should I write cattle?) , do they?
Claim about small population is bogus.
They like extremely buggy and troian friendly TS. Who forbids them to organize time and do "synchro-drops against good IS unites. After all it is part of the team experience. Isn't it?
I was doing that regularly more than 10 years ago. I don't believe now they have less communication possibilities to do that.

Another very important question to the MWO staff.
What percentage of the people stopping playing MWO have left after their short experience with FW. I know that if I wouldn't be lucky to get some first 10 FW games in small groups and experience good DC, I would leave MWO entirely. I know people who did exactly that.
This is personal experience so I am curious how general it is.
I would think shielding FW by entrance requirements or splitting queues is paramount not for the mode, but for the existence of the MWO as a whole. Again look for the experience in other games evolution. Unreal tournament is perfect example.
Why counterStrike is alive while technologically stronger quake and UT lines died?

KCOM, or at least I am against splitting the ques because this is supposed to be end game content, where you have to be ready to face extremely tough situations if you want to play. Plus, there are simply not enough people playing CW to split the ques. There are not enough teams to support a team mode and a solo mode like they do in QP. It has absolutely nothing to do with rather we want to smash pugs or not, it has everything to do with us wanting to play a mode that we enjoy as a team. If you don't know what you are talking about, stop insinuating nefarious motives against us. It cheap political theater and shows your ignorance to the masses.

Not sure what your issue is with our TS...it seems to work fine for us but whatever.

Stop with the non sense claim that our unit, or any other unit smashing pugs who chose to drop solo caused them to quit. That is BS. They chose to quit because they didn't want to put in the hard work, both experience wise and socially, to get better at the game. They chose to quit. They have that right, but it is not our fault. Their choices led to their situation and just like I have to suffer the effects of my choices, so must they.

The Basilisk, on 28 May 2017 - 01:29 AM, said:

The same discussion over and over again.

A minority wants to get their secluded tryhard land out of a gamemode that belongs to everyone while the real pros are long gone, playing their leagues in lobby matches.

Well to make it short.
It is the other way round.
Its not the lowby PuGs that have to be restricted.
Create an FP XP level, stop rewarding High XP ppl for teaming up and sealclubbing low XP ppl.
--> Incentive for low XP people to team up and for High XP ppl to go solo for max rewards.

Contain predators and empower the normals.

Seriously...Karl Marx would be so proud of you.

[sycocys]

Here's a better idea - just have a monthly 12v12 same unit only/full group only queue that's some sort of monthly tournament style.

Your unit - counted across everyone - loses 2 matches and is disqualified from the mode until its reset. Let's say monthly.

Only the top 12 players (most wins accrued + not eliminated) get 30 days of premium time and a code for 50% off the next mech bundle.

Let the rules cycle between ISvClan, ISvIS, ClanvClan, and mixed drops - team with the most wins per player is always the defending side (first match is a coin toss).

Lastly keep a board posted on the main page for winning units only.

-- Doesn't change CW or QP or the requirement, but gives the uber l33ts something do do and brag about. Its also a directed comp mode where actually useful balancing information can be derived.

[Leggin Ho]

I like the idea of a tournament so long as it's in addition to and not replacing the ability to play CW the rest of the month, I think that's what your suggesting, just wanted to be clear about it.

Pat Kell, on 28 May 2017 - 05:41 AM, said:

Not sure what your issue is with our TS...it seems to work fine for us but whatever.

Stop with the non sense claim that our unit, or any other unit smashing pugs who chose to drop solo caused them to quit. That is BS. They chose to quit because they didn't want to put in the hard work, both experience wise and socially, to get better at the game. They chose to quit. They have that right, but it is not our fault. Their choices led to their situation and just like I have to suffer the effects of my choices, so must they.



Seriously...Karl Marx would be so proud of you.

But PAT I WANT my participation trophy too.....

[PFC Carsten]

Pat Kell, on 28 May 2017 - 05:41 AM, said:

KCOM, or at least I am against splitting the ques because this is supposed to be end game content, where you have to be ready to face extremely tough situations if you want to play. Plus, there are simply not enough people playing CW to split the ques. There are not enough teams to support a team mode and a solo mode like they do in QP.

Think about it. That means feeding new meat into the grinder and burning preciously rare fresh players in order to... have life support for a game mode you yourself deem dead in the water ("simply not enough people..") without the seals.

Better to shut it down before it burns more players then. Strict logic.

[Insanity09]

IF FW is driving people away from the game as a whole, and I don't disagree with that, because being repeatedly crushed is aggravating, then the proper damage control.... may be just what you say, PFC.

I think that would be a shame, because FW is what gives MWO a chance to rise above being an oddball online shooter.

Truly, the only easily implementable chance I see for real viability in FW is a matchmaker that reduces the stomping of newer (to FW?) players. But... chicken and egg issue with the current population?

[Scyther]

Either the goal is to have FP part of viable long-term MWO gaming content, or we might as well accept that it is a horrible blend of interesting play (occasionally) mixed with disgust-quit or rage-quit experiences.

I really don't see excluding more than half the playerbase from FP as part of a long-term solution. Low FP pop will drop lower, and many players will simply get bored of QP and leave the game before ever reaching tier 2.

PGI needs to do what they have, for whatever reason, avoided since day 1: put at least a minimal matchmaker into FP. It could be either pug vs pug, group vs group, or simply split it into 'Tier 5-3 into this queue, tier 2-1 into this one'. Your group gets matched by its highest tier member.

It would unfortunately split near-empty buckets still further, but would lead to more activity than a tier cap. It would also introduce new players to an interesting and different play style. A huge part of the reason FP is low pop is because it never had even a minimal MM, and without one it will never get much attention.

[Willard Phule]

Scout Derek, on 27 May 2017 - 06:18 PM, said:

You see this? This is the result when you combine two premades that are really good against below average pugs. This is the result. It's bad, really bad. I don't like stomping them like that, it's so wrong. I was thinking this the following match after I played it. Absolutely annihilated them, and I felt bad because I knew that some on that side would never return to Faction Play most likely after going into 5 battles like that.


So here's what I think what should be the limit to entering faction play in order to make a better playing field of sorts for both pugs and units (albeit we will have the good units still stomp the pugs, it won't be as bad)


- You must have played for at least 1 month before being able to play Faction Play

- You must own 4 mechs before playing (as in, purchased and in the mech bay, with the new skill tree this should not give people any issues and a chance to actually use mechs they're good at instead of being cheap or new and using champions and gimping their own team)

- You must be Tier 2 at least ( I know I know, this sounds redundant as far as tiers matching up players of similar skill, but this is to prevent those who are still in tier 4 and 5 from entering Faction Play and getting wrecked hard)


I feel like that with the start of this idea, we can prevent crap like this from happening. What say you?

Look, man, I feel your pain....but you're beating a dead horse. Nobody can figure out why PGI does the things it does, but as far as FW is concerned.....PUGs are "OPFOR" for the paying customers. They pretty much do what the big groups that funnel cash into their coffers want them to do.

Besides, what makes you think that PGI could even separate people based on any form of experience in the first place? Their so-called "matchmaker" is broken.

[MischiefSC]

I'm all for having FW maps/modes in QP to help new players and casuals get used to the concepts. Then stronger scaling rewards for playing in FW and some more depth/worth to draw units back to FW proper.

I don't have the energy to reiterate all the changes to FW that would bring units and players back who left it long ago. It would all make it less like QP though and as such is not working the preview PGI has shown they are willing/able to develop.

[SuperFunkTron]

I think that the only real solution we have for what is a real issue (players with too little experience getting into FP) is to "gate" access to FP by giving them small "missions" that prepare them for FP.

I made a thread a while back called "Extended Field Training" which would essentially provide an interesting and helpful way for players to practice the skills they need in order to start succeeding in FP. After the Cadet bonuses run out, there are 2 main areas the player would start progressing in:
1) Building a drop deck- The player would be required to build a drop deck using a mech from each weight class. The idea here is to make sure that new players have an idea of what role each class tends to play and to give them some idea what they can expect when they see the same weight class. There would be a UI and a reminder letting players know how much of the conditions they've filled for prepping their drop deck appropriately. A minimum upgrade amount could be added as an extra condition (something reasonable like 30 skill points added would further ensure that players have put enough time into their mechs. 30 skill points would be approximate 10-20 games for most players which is a reasonable amount to make sure the player is acclimated to the mech).

2) Skills checklist: Just as we often have conditions to achieve prizes during events, having a variety of tasks such as Group Formation, Assisted Light/Medium, Scouting and other behavior oriented goals need to be performed a certain number of times in specific weight classes to become fully "field certified" and approved for FP.

These two elements would not only provide a gate but actually help prepare new players to for the fierce nature of FP. Further, giving new players some idea of what they are preparing for (non abusive guidance from angry players is a plus) will help keep more players interested, especially as they see their progression with certain tired and true behaviors that lead to better overall performance in FP.

[Exilyth]

Additional academy map which teaches the basics of faction play would help new players much more than restricting them from entering FP.
Also improving & expanding the existing academy.

Also making turrets, gates, gens and other objectives spawn on invasion maps in testing grounds so you can actually familiarize yourself with the map without 12 enemies focussing fire on you.

[MustrumRidcully]

sub2000, on 28 May 2017 - 02:47 AM, said:

1. It is impossible not to notice that there is aversion against meta. Meta builds (builds optimized around hardpoints and quirks) are as the word "optimized" implies, are easiest to play right. Using them is the best way to learn, but there is aversion against it. Isn't it because of the meta adepts and their way of communicating?

1) People first need to be aware of the meta. A new player isn't going to be that.
2) Meta is boring. You have a complex mech customziation system with lots of options, but you end up using one of the standard menu options.


Seriously, 2) is one of the biggest problem in any game with complex build systems but poor balance. Everyone ends up with similar builds and all that depth is wasted. People that like the building aspect of the game have to realize that everything good has already been discovered and they can even try around and set themselves up for fail, or they don't use the part they actually like.

[naterist]

I love that people are all like "big units make it not fun, so people dont"

And then the big units come out like "your weak, menrally and physically"

Its like one sides here to play a game, and the other is convinced that if they dont win this mythical war, then itll have real world consequences.
Kinda funny, kinda sad at the same time.

Edited by naterist, 28 May 2017 - 12:20 PM.

[DarklightCA]

Nobody is really enjoying their time playing Faction Play if the quality of games is the reason why you are playing the game. Groups get boring matches having to stomp team after team, especially good groups that can stomp all the other groups they encounter.

Solo players get frustrating matches having to get stomped every time they lose the pug lottery and go against a more coordinated and or skilled team regardless if it's against a group or a more coordinated pug team.

As ideal as it would be to have the end game content that was designed around Units conquering planets in groups for factions have it's population actually reflect that. The reality is that there really isn't a Faction Play without both player bases. Regardless if it's a solo queue or skill gate you are losing half the population of a very limited populated game mode that is already struggling to find games.

There are lots of ways Faction Play could have been better designed to fit all needs but we are well passed that point now. There is no longer that many Units interested in playing Faction Play anymore and the wrong kind of population will always be attracted to getting LP rewards, especially all the new players that haven't even learned the game mechanics yet.

[Cato Zilks]

naterist, on 28 May 2017 - 12:20 PM, said:

I love that people are all like "big units make it not fun, so people dont"

And then the big units come out like "your weak, menrally and physically"

Its like one sides here to play a game, and the other is convinced that if they dont win this mythical war, then itll have real world consequences.
Kinda funny, kinda sad at the same time.

As someone who started this game for FW (and had not played a shooter in over a decade), I got my *** kicked on a daily basis by HHOD. A lot of getting my *** kicked. And I kept playing.

What made getting stomped not fun was whiny ******* that complained that the enemies were cheating (a common occurrence when a true tier 5 encounters a true tier 1). Complaining that things are hard is what kills fun, otherwise the stomping just makes the enemy seem more formidable and thereby makes beating them more fun.

[Sjorpha]

I think a minor entrance gate would be good, but it shouldn't be very high because we do need enough players as well.

I think this would be reasonable:
1. Own your own dropdeck, no trials.
2. Get to tier 3.

That's a low enough bar that most people can clear it in a month or two. Could be something else, like simply "play X matches" or whatever, but that's the general ballpark IMO.

FP should not be elitist, but there shouldn't be complete newbies there either.

[TWIAFU]

Scout Derek, on 27 May 2017 - 06:18 PM, said:

I feel like that with the start of this idea, we can prevent crap like this from happening. What say you?

Nice, you had a 'good' enemy to face.

Had match last night where 6 only did sub 100 damage. Two lost all mechs before anyone else lost a second.

That has to stop in CW.