425 replies to this topic

[nehebkau]

TWIAFU, on 29 May 2017 - 03:03 AM, said:

Nice, you had a 'good' enemy to face.

Had match last night where 6 only did sub 100 damage. Two lost all mechs before anyone else lost a second.

That has to stop in CW.

If we can't find some way to balance skills in FW, then yes it will die (more than it has) and, new players will quickly tire of quick-play deathmatch mode.

[theUgly]

You cannot help the new pugs with anything .
Even if you make them set up an own drop deck
,teach them how to open the gates at Boreal or whatever.

For what? So the guy to get in his first CW game,
thinking that he knows what he is doing
... because he has spend the time of going over the tutorials
,busting his a$$ buying and mastering mechs in quick play...
just to turn the corner into an Evil, MJ12 or Irex firing lines
and get slapped all the way back to the drop zone within half a sek.

How disappointing that would be 5 games in a roll ?

PGI did alright on this by not listening to the
guys bitching non spot to split Qs. .

They simply sayed :
" IF YOU CLICK HERE AND YOU ARE NEW TO THE GAME YOU WILL NOT BE
HAVING THE TIME OF YOUR LIFE."

In other words - group up.

Let the pugs get stomped again and again in CW by the groups & units.
1/3 will get tiered of it and will look for somebody to drop with.
Well I did it ,, and my IQ compares to the one of a snale .
The rest that have no interest in game will leave anyway.

Belive the biggest problem the game has,
its to keep its vets interested and not leaving.

Me personally , i want the game to have ranked 1v1
with no premium time required to get in to a match.
But in life i found out that the only one that cares
of what i want is my mama .

[Commander A9]

Okay, so, let's consider something.

Let's consider the hypothetical...let's say they DO split the cues.

Let's say unit-tagged players can only fight unit-tagged players, and non-tagged freelancers can only fight non-tagged freelancers.

Questions for you:

-what determines an elite player? His Tier? Whether or not he has a unit tag? What is the criteria? I know some unit-tagged players who are amazing...and some unit-tagged players who are downright awful.

-On the subject of time requirements, what happens when a "seasoned veteran" makes a brand new account to use on an opposing side with different mechs, as some people do? Is he forced to wait a month, if not longer, just to play Faction Warfare despite his skill set?

-when the freelancers need to wait forever to actually get a match since digging up 12 other freelancers can be time-consuming (with evidence to show that out of 9 days of Tukayyid 3, there was a sum total of 99 freelancers which played throughout the event out of over 17,000 players), what's your response?

-when you have a group of tagged unit players trying to invite one or more freelancers into their group to recruit them or train them, does this group get a match against unit-tagged players, or freelancers, or neither because they're mixed?

-when a Clan or House calls for reinforcements from its 'elite shock troopers' to help turn the tug-of-war in their favor, what should the response of the major teams be when they realize they can do nothing to help their own pugs?

-whose matches take priority to determine the direction of the tug-of-war? Freelancers? Or units? And if one takes priority over the other, why then should the side that gets no priority even play the game mode?

-what happens then when an organized group of 12 players in a single unit drops into a battle and cues up against 12 players each from their own unit? Do we then have a screaming match when this "12-man" group decimates these "tagged pugs?"

-are we judging the groups in Faction Warfare by their size, or the tags attached to player names?

Edited by Commander A9, 29 May 2017 - 12:23 PM.

[LordNothing]

coordinated t3s can be useful in fp. provided the have to be willing to use team work and follow orders should someone give them. i would bar t4s and t5s of course. but then again we cant expect players to get good enough to play fp overnight. there is no new player experience, and quick play is a piss poor fp simulator and the acadamy is a joke. joining a unit or trial and error pug drops are the only two options new players have for learning the mode. i preferred the latter myself and do pretty well in fp.

only real gating should be to simply ban trial mechs. it takes new players a couple months to fill up their introductory mech bays. and if they screw it up and buy 2 clan and 2 is mechs they are sol until they buy/win mech bays. thats a problem that would need a solution.

what if we turn that abandoned trainwreck of a career path, freelancer, into noob mode. new players have to do a number of drops as freelancer. freelancers will never be put against an 8+ man, and preferably will be put with at least a 4 man on their team. give them a queue so they can wait for such prime openings where they can slip in and train. freelancer gets a small skill tree with 10 levels. it would have 4 big prizes at ranks 3, 5, 7 amd 9. each one is a top spheroid meta mech, a mech bay, and 91 sp for that mech. one for each weight class whos total deck size matches with the current is deck limit. this way when you complete the freelancer tree, you have a full meta deck you can use and you dont even have to level it. when you make rank 10 it unlocks the other career paths. freelancers can use trials but the number they can drop depends on rank, each time you win a mech you have to drop a trial from your deck. this makes it approachable for new players.

[Rogue Jedi]

LordNothing, on 29 May 2017 - 12:31 PM, said:

what if we turn that abandoned trainwreck of a career path, freelancer, into noob mode. new players have to do a number of drops as freelancer. freelancers will never be put against an 8+ man, and preferably will be put with at least a 4 man on their team. give them a queue so they can wait for such prime openings where they can slip in and train. freelancer gets a small skill tree with 10 levels. it would have 4 big prizes at ranks 3, 5, 7 amd 9. each one is a top spheroid meta mech, a mech bay, and 91 sp for that mech. one for each weight class whos total deck size matches with the current is deck limit. this way when you complete the freelancer tree, you have a full meta deck you can use and you dont even have to level it. when you make rank 10 it unlocks the other career paths. freelancers can use trials but the number they can drop depends on rank, each time you win a mech you have to drop a trial from your deck. this makes it approachable for new players.

Not a bad idea, however Meta shifts periodically, sometimes it lasts a month or even less, other times it remains stable for 6+ months, what is to say that the second PGI patch in the set of t1 player chosen meta Mechs, meta will not change making those "perfect" Mechs into "rubbish" Mechs in the eyes of Meta players.

even if PGI did correctly predict the meta change and modify the prize Mechs to new meta when meta is about to change you would still have the players who earned the Mech a day before the patch stuck with yesterdays "best" Mech which may now be quite the opposite.

[Tarl Cabot]

Quote

Separating Let's consider the hypothetical...let's say they DO split the cues.



Let's say unit-tagged players can only fight unit-tagged players, and non-tagged freelancers can only fight non-tagged freelancers.Unit vs non-unit

Unit vs non-unit, in the end would not work for several reasons. (Remember, this is a niche game...)

In the end it is partially everyone's fault.

PGI for relying SOLELY on game mechanics while providing very little in coding end, while not even being ACTIVELY involved. This is a very niche game. Sorry, PGI is so deep in ****, they surely do not approach Kesmai level (MPBT series). Via MWO, they given the franchise a jumpstart.. ....but for me to continue with anything else may be considered a threat...even the last Mechcon, Paul looked like he just came off a week of male only orgies with him being the non-male portion...

Solo pugs, especially those that bring own.. hmm .. their builds.....even with THAT, PGI does not restrict them like group queue, take that into consideration.....

Next is the CO of successful units. You do not like to lose, be it against pugs, aka seals, or halfway decent units. yes, you play the game PGI has coded. My question though, overall how does most of your members response when most of the drops are "seal" slaughter after an x amount of time? Are most your players of the make up that if this was a single player game, would they enact "GOD:"mode if it was available, or do they want an actual challenge? What flexibility do you allow within your unit, your drop commanders ability to make calls? 12vs 7, etc, etc..? Here I am saying, what options are available to your people when there is a lack of a challenge? To put them out of their misery? But how does that actually yours when meeting a formidable opponent?

This question is for both Clan and IS, where PGI has failed us all and they are off 69th each other..., Sorry new PGI personal, slow response and very little interaction with the player base. The last Mechcon it looked like Russ got it from both sides the night before then splashed water on his face and did not use a toothbrush. I had a few friends looking over my solid.,. okay I cooked they brought the alcohol!! Told them Russ is in Canada.. They mentioned maybe a trip to Canada was needed to straighten Russ out.. ugghh!!.. Okay they handed me a 44oz margarita e on the rocks!!! They did bring over a few cute women who like to play games .. ouch!!

Unit tax was simply BS. Reduce it or remove it. A unit should have two sections, active and reserves. Unit CO can make active X members but PGI can set a base active FP time to move a person to a unit's reserve. Better approach the a faction's active personnel. A unit can have 50 active personnel but only 10 actively dropping into FP. Checked every two weeks (example).

As noted by Commander9 in another thread. his unit lost but they actually had FUN verses another unit setup, but this is rare? PGI needs ti allocate a longer search time for units/combined units 7+ to locate appropriate competition. This SHOULD include a ticker bill board. Say KCOM is ready to drop but no other actively seeking units in the queue? KCOM (7+) holds for a few minutes longer and a ticker board indicates KCOM is searching for a worthy opponent!! HHOD chuckles) okay, IM KCOM they are gathering, short 2 people. KCOM cancels the searching button to give a few more minutes to HHOD ready up. But if KCom receives nothing, they spread a few more minutes in the queue before dropping.

For those pugs dropping against KCOM, no actual units were looking or were available for KCOM.

Again, only as an example, how does KCOM provide a challenge for its players? Verses a pug team not working, does it help any by putting those pugs down like strays taken into the local animal shelter, throwing your people into them, to "seal" club them to death?

The above I can not answer. The question if for FP, if 18 out of 20 games are "seal" clubbing, how does at affect your unit? People like to win but if it gets to being mind numbing, where the only benefit is that the players are playing with people they like to play with, how does that affect the, hmm, your players mentality?

This is where PGi has failed the player base, by not an active role in this niche community. PGI expects the game code to take care of everything without them being involved but their coding has been shallow, as well as not bringing into the game what they had promised several years ago.

A PVE only brings so much to the game, and based on their current output... sadly I do not see anything promising from PGI.

To reiterate, this is a very niche game, without guidance, PGI restricting themselves to the benches, not the sidelines, I do not see enough players forming a consistence on MWO direction.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 29 May 2017 - 02:15 PM.

[LordNothing]

Rogue Jedi, on 29 May 2017 - 01:28 PM, said:

Not a bad idea, however Meta shifts periodically, sometimes it lasts a month or even less, other times it remains stable for 6+ months, what is to say that the second PGI patch in the set of t1 player chosen meta Mechs, meta will not change making those "perfect" Mechs into "rubbish" Mechs in the eyes of Meta players.

even if PGI did correctly predict the meta change and modify the prize Mechs to new meta when meta is about to change you would still have the players who earned the Mech a day before the patch stuck with yesterdays "best" Mech which may now be quite the opposite.

doesn't have to be a perfect meta mech, it just has to be a good viable mech to take into fp. a yesterdays meta mech is still better than any trial mech a new player might have access to, or the lerm boats they would bring on their own. the free 91 points they get means that they are going in fully speced out. thats much better than an unspeced trial. also nobody else may run trials.

also consider what it would do for the people who play regularly, the number of freelancers are limited per match, and their use of trial mechs is limited as well. that way you dont end up with 3 or 4 people dropping full trial decks. limit so that you only have a 1 freelancer difference between the two teams. it would try to place freelancers in games so that there is an equal number of freelancers on both sides, and when this isnt possible you are limited to one freelancer per game. this prevents a major skill disparity. new players would also need to be able to choose whether they want clan or is mechs when they get to rank 3 so that both sides have to train noobs.

[50 50]

Insanity09, on 27 May 2017 - 11:31 PM, said:

Being elitist is exactly the wrong direction to go in a game mode that already suffers from low population. That seems obvious.

Yes, pugs getting roflstomped discourages them. The solution is NOT to ban or prevent the pug folks from playing. The solution is to mitigate the problem, mentor the pugs, if at all possible, and allow them to improve their skills.

So many solutions would be possible if the FW pop were higher. Now it is all about damage control.

That's my fear.
It's a vicious circle. Need to get players into the mode so we can reduce wait times and get more features added. But you can't get players into the mode while it is in it's current format.

Given how long you have to wait for a single match, you might as well be playing another game entirely. Quick Play on the other hand has almost instant drops. So, guess where players go to 'play the game.'

Banning people from even trying out Faction Play will make those already long wait times worse.
If the big groups want to have that exclusive match and play against each other, then the quickest and easiest answer for you right now would be to add Siege and Drop Decks to private matches.
Go play there.

But if we want to see the mode become something, we need to change the format.

Edited by 50 50, 29 May 2017 - 02:31 PM.

[Commander A9]

Exactly.

Faction Play doesn't have the population to survive if certain people are cut out of the game-literally.

All we can do is beg them to avail themselves of the ability and tools to work together.

But when you have selfish people literally laughing at you on comms about focusing fire, or lashing out telling you that 'they just want to have fun' when you encourage them to coordinate their movements, or call you a 'l33tist tryhard' when you recommend particular mech loadouts, you get the feeling that some parts of the population in this game are doomed to failure...

...especially when they DO fail, then scream about how 'this is OP and the game should change based on my abilities!'

By the way: my objective is not to provide a challenge for my opponent, or to make sure my opponent has fun or enjoys himself...my objective is to win, and if that means sending my opponent back to the mechlab in pieces, so be it.

Edited by Commander A9, 29 May 2017 - 03:21 PM.

[sycocys]

nehebkau, on 29 May 2017 - 06:29 AM, said:

If we can't find some way to balance skills in FW, then yes it will die (more than it has) and, new players will quickly tire of quick-play deathmatch mode.

Even if they added some sort or matchmaking/skill balance mechanism you still have the problem that FW is just a longer deathmatch mode.

[AssaultPig]

Commander A9, on 29 May 2017 - 03:14 PM, said:

Exactly.

Faction Play doesn't have the population to survive if certain people are cut out of the game-literally.

All we can do is beg them to avail themselves of the ability and tools to work together.

But when you have selfish people literally laughing at you on comms about focusing fire, or lashing out telling you that 'they just want to have fun' when you encourage them to coordinate their movements, or call you a 'l33tist tryhard' when you recommend particular mech loadouts, you get the feeling that some parts of the population in this game are doomed to failure...

...especially when they DO fail, then scream about how 'this is OP and the game should change based on my abilities!'

By the way: my objective is not to provide a challenge for my opponent, or to make sure my opponent has fun or enjoys himself...my objective is to win, and if that means sending my opponent back to the mechlab in pieces, so be it.

the basic problem with this line of argument is that it neglects the intermediate 'learning' step

so some guy queues into a FP match because he gets the reinforcements popup, doesn't really know what's going on, and immediately has some probably-obnoxious 'commander' giving instructions that rely on a decent level of meta-knowledge to be able to follow correctly (even if they aren't nonsense to begin with.)

this guy's team probably loses badly, and then he probably endures at least some criticism from his team for not doing as he was told. This is not a positive experience or one that leads this person to queue up and wait ten minutes for the privilege of doing it again.

not everyone is inclined to play at the highest possible level; lots of people just wanna get in giant robots and shoot each other. In a healthy game format that's fine, and over time the more 'serious' players percolate to the top. The expectation that everybody who's new to FP is immediately going to be ready for highly organized gameplay (or want it at all) is dumb and will always be dumb.

again, it isn't high-end units' fault that PGI have designed a ****** system. But if you like the mode and want to see it succeed it might behoove you to think about whether your behavior is making that more likely or not

Edited by AssaultPig, 29 May 2017 - 05:25 PM.

[50 50]

sycocys, on 29 May 2017 - 05:02 PM, said:

Even if they added some sort or matchmaking/skill balance mechanism you still have the problem that FW is just a longer deathmatch mode.

Can't argue with that.
I'd go as far as saying that if we changed the format for Faction Play then we don't need a match maker or any sort of skill balancing. Simply a way to decide that we are outgunned, out matched and a way to retreat or change the style of fight from just bashing against each other head to head.

In the end, we play the game so we can have some glorious mech combat.
We just need the mode to be able to support both ends of the scale from a single player to a full company, cadets and veterans.
It's all possible..... just not under the current design.
Take a bit of a sideways step in how the format is setup and it's achievable.

[John Blackthorne]

Why not make the entire game FW, but two versions?
We have one version, basically as QP today but with the players choosing sides and affecting the "war effort" of their chosen faction. So you'll end up with IS fighting alongside Clan but the scoring goes into the main FW map. This would lead to a better attachment to the QP battles and the results other than just getting more c-bills and experience.
Then we have the second mode, just like old FW but with teams.

Any takers?

[Insanity09]

To all those folks out there insisting that the only the most skilled people play FW, to all those belittling and insulting anyone who brings a non-meta mech, I say two things.

First, as others (including 50 50 right above) have suggested, you may be part of the problem driving people away.
Yes, it is true that there is a higher skill demand in FW, but neither QP nor GP actually prepare you for FW. They just don't.
Anyone who tries FW is jumping in to the deep end of the pool. And the lifeguards, the experienced players, the ones who should be mentoring and helping this poor fool, insult him and yell at him? Yeah, that's not useful. Not for the game, and certainly not for the victim.

Second, when it comes to assuring victory, there is apparently one thing that trump all other factors, per the forums, per the chat (in GP, QP,& FW), and per my personal experience.

Teamwork.

Not meta builds with the best mechs, not any tech advantage. Working together as a team, executing strategy and tactics together, that wins. Heck, in the face of a disorganized enemy, it steamrolls.

So, it seems to me that cultivating teamwork will only improve the game as a whole. Start with that, then move to the less important factors.
Here's a tip, insulting people and yelling at them... not a good team building method (it can work under the right circumstances, but isn't likely in this sort of situation). Negative voices sound louder than positive, and tend to push people away, so there is little chance to improve and learn.
Mentor, advise, cajole, whatever seems to help to get people working together. It is quite the challenge and effort, but only you can determine whether you think the health of the game is worth it.

[meteorol]

Insanity09, on 29 May 2017 - 08:24 PM, said:

To all those folks out there insisting that the only the most skilled people play FW

One interesting point to this is...

When people are ranting about terrible players in CW, i often do check their stats to see how well they are actually doing. It turns out, some of them are below average - flat out bad at best.

They simply are not good players themself, and most likely get carried over PUGs by their units. If we were to limit CW to truely "good" players, those guys were among the first to get kicked out. Playing CW in large groups, rolling over helpless pugs seems to be some kind of safespace for them, which makes them forget they are a bottom tier players aswell.

Edited by meteorol, 29 May 2017 - 09:41 PM.

[Pat Kell]

PFC Carsten, on 28 May 2017 - 08:39 AM, said:

Think about it. That means feeding new meat into the grinder and burning preciously rare fresh players in order to... have life support for a game mode you yourself deem dead in the water ("simply not enough people..") without the seals.

Better to shut it down before it burns more players then. Strict logic.

Shutting it down would make me quit...I played QP for several years before CW came out and once it did, I haven't look back since. I suspect I have less than 100 QP matches put in since CW has come out and I just don't want to go back to that any more. I don't like the solo mentality that is pervasive in QP and if you play as a team, you have to go very light in order to get any sizable team dropping together. This is not something I enjoy doing. I would be all for splitting the ques into group que and solo que if I thought for one sec that the amount of people wanting to play CW could sustain it but I don't think that it does. Plus, how do you manage the planet system when there are 2 ques? Do you combine the results or do you have 2 separate maps/universes. 1 for the solos and 1 for the teams?

No, the problem is that you think I haven't thought about this. I think about it a lot and run scenarios in my head often. There is no happy ending here because you can shut it down and lose a lot of long term players such as myself, split the ques and watch it whither even further as the wait times go through the roof or leave it as it is and try to make improvements in other areas.

To be honest, ques are not really the problem, it's people facing adversity and deciding to quit instead of putting any serious effort into fixing what is causing them to lose. You are all just dancing around the real issue here. Make solo ques and I promise you that there will be players who rise to the top and rule solo que every bit as much as KCom or any other good unit does and people will still quit because they came up against adversity and didn't take action to fix it. That is well within their right to do so but being clear about what the real problem is, is pretty vital to this discussion.

Edited by Pat Kell, 29 May 2017 - 10:35 PM.

[meteorol]

Pat Kell, on 29 May 2017 - 10:32 PM, said:

To be honest, ques are not really the problem, it's people facing adversity and deciding to quit instead of putting any serious effort into fixing what is causing them to lose. You are all just dancing around the real issue here. Make solo ques and I promise you that there will be players who rise to the top and rule solo que every bit as much as KCom or any other good unit does and people will still quit because they came up against adversity and didn't take action to fix it. That is well within their right to do so but being clear about what the real problem is, is pretty vital to this discussion.

No one is dancing around this issue, it's well known. The reason why no one mentions it anymore is that it won't change.

Bottom line is, CW needs help. That is given.
The big question is "how to help CW". The problem you are adressing (which, basically roots all back to the fact that MWOs playerbase is, on average, highly casual and low skilled) is something PGI can't fix. Hence it doesn't need to come up in discussions anymore, because there is no possible solution to it.

People have been preaching "git gud and join a unit" for years now. It didn't stop CWs bleeding. People wont git gud and they won't join a unit, no matter how often it is repeated like a broken record. They simply stop playing CW. The fact that MWOs playerbase, as a whole, is highly casual is something we can't fix. It will simply never change. Hence this point can't be part of a solution to CW lacking playerbase.

Once people accept that the vast majority of MWO players will neither improve their skills nor join a unit, a solution to the problem can be searched for on basis of this fact.

Now, for the solo queue. Can it be done with the current playerbase CW has? No it can't, not enough players. What i'm predicting though (based on my time spent in CW and the number of large premades i meet compared to pure PUG drops) is that units would actually draw the short stick if PGI did a "true" soloqueue (not the "no unit tag" abomination they did). But it doesn't really matter, because we can't split queues at the moment anyway.

CW is currently in a stalemate: It does not have enough players to split the queue, but plenty of the missing players aren't playing it because the queues are not split.

What i would propose is this:

PGI should do a testrun. True solo queue / group queue split (if anyone is about to write "but they did this", i will have to punch your face, no they didn't). Since people grew so aversive to CW, a simply "hey guys we did split the queues" won't make them touch CW with a 20ft pole again.

Therefor this has to be combined with a massive CW event, with rewards so good it basically forces people to play CW (The start of Civil war would be the perfect time for this).

After the event, the queue split stays in place for like... one more week or something. PGI monitors the queue numbers and decides if enough people are in CW to keep the queues split.

If the playerbase of CW drops back down to like 10% of the MWOs playerbase, we got our answer: People simply hate CW for the gamedesign, the lack of matchmaking is not an issue. If CW stabilizes at a much larger playerbase, we got our solution, people enjoy CW and don't play it currently because of the lacking matchmaker.

It seems like a shot in the dark, but given how CW is (once again) pretty much dead, i would say PGI should take the risk. IMO, both units and solos would benefit from a working queue split. 48:6, 8-12man vs. 12 pugs matches aren't fun for anyone, yet they are pretty much everyday business in CW.

Pat Kell, on 29 May 2017 - 10:32 PM, said:

Make solo ques and I promise you that there will be players who rise to the top and rule solo que

This would be a non issue if you ask me. Just look at QP. Proton rules the solo queue in every way one could imagine. The difference betwee him and your average T1 player is about as big as the difference from an average T1 player to a T5. Still you don't see posts like "put top tier comp players in their own queue" every second day. It makes a difference for poeple whether they lose against a better team of solo players or against a 12man. Losing against premades just "feels" worse because they think they weren't give a chance in first place.

The solo queue has plenty of players that are head and shoulders above anyone else in T1. Still, i don't see as much crying about the fact that you have to play against them all few matches.

Edited by meteorol, 29 May 2017 - 11:28 PM.

[The Basilisk]

meteorol, on 29 May 2017 - 11:25 PM, said:

No one is dancing around this issue, it's well known. The reason why no one mentions it anymore is that it won't change.

Bottom line is, CW needs help. That is given.
The big question is "how to help CW". The problem you are adressing (which, basically roots all back to the fact that MWOs playerbase is, on average, highly casual and low skilled) is something PGI can't fix. Hence it doesn't need to come up in discussions anymore, because there is no possible solution to it.

People have been preaching "git gud and join a unit" for years now. It didn't stop CWs bleeding. People wont git gud and they won't join a unit, no matter how often it is repeated like a broken record. They simply stop playing CW. The fact that MWOs playerbase, as a whole, is highly casual is something we can't fix. It will simply never change. Hence this point can't be part of a solution to CW lacking playerbase.

Once people accept that the vast majority of MWO players will neither improve their skills nor join a unit, a solution to the problem can be searched for on basis of this fact.

Now, for the solo queue. Can it be done with the current playerbase CW has? No it can't, not enough players. What i'm predicting though (based on my time spent in CW and the number of large premades i meet compared to pure PUG drops) is that units would actually draw the short stick if PGI did a "true" soloqueue (not the "no unit tag" abomination they did). But it doesn't really matter, because we can't split queues at the moment anyway.

CW is currently in a stalemate: It does not have enough players to split the queue, but plenty of the missing players aren't playing it because the queues are not split.

What i would propose is this:

PGI should do a testrun. True solo queue / group queue split (if anyone is about to write "but they did this", i will have to punch your face, no they didn't). Since people grew so aversive to CW, a simply "hey guys we did split the queues" won't make them touch CW with a 20ft pole again.

Therefor this has to be combined with a massive CW event, with rewards so good it basically forces people to play CW (The start of Civil war would be the perfect time for this).

After the event, the queue split stays in place for like... one more week or something. PGI monitors the queue numbers and decides if enough people are in CW to keep the queues split.

If the playerbase of CW drops back down to like 10% of the MWOs playerbase, we got our answer: People simply hate CW for the gamedesign, the lack of matchmaking is not an issue. If CW stabilizes at a much larger playerbase, we got our solution, people enjoy CW and don't play it currently because of the lacking matchmaker.

It seems like a shot in the dark, but given how CW is (once again) pretty much dead, i would say PGI should take the risk. IMO, both units and solos would benefit from a working queue split. 48:6, 8-12man vs. 12 pugs matches aren't fun for anyone, yet they are pretty much everyday business in CW.



This would be a non issue if you ask me. Just look at QP. Proton rules the solo queue in every way one could imagine. The difference betwee him and your average T1 player is about as big as the difference from an average T1 player to a T5. Still you don't see posts like "put top tier comp players in their own queue" every second day. It makes a difference for poeple whether they lose against a better team of solo players or against a 12man. Losing against premades just "feels" worse because they think they weren't give a chance in first place.

The solo queue has plenty of players that are head and shoulders above anyone else in T1. Still, i don't see as much crying about the fact that you have to play against them all few matches.

While there may be some little bits of truth in what you say there are some larger things that come to bear in FP that are not comparable to QP solo queue and patially not comparable to QP Group queue.

Coordinated loadouts and strategies.
It is one thing if a bunch of guys driving their favorite FP mechs on a saturday evening Unit FP drop or if you encounter a 12 man team that has spoken strategy and loadouts prior to drop and even having a selection of decks for either attack or defense on a hot/cold/longrange/shortrange map.

You only need a bunch of mediocre players that stay cool and are able to follow simple instructions to whipe any bunch of hardcore (QP) players on a saturday evening drink and drive trip.

And beeing on a PuG group encountering GCGB, RJF or some other guys on a coordinated training drop testing out new strategies...it...is...not....funny.

And exactly this is what should not happen.

There has to be a way to keep the overorganized Groups from running into the normal populance.

Only way I know is interactive combatvalue rating. (when you accumulate already highrated crew and equipment your combatvalue ratings skyrockets and you won't get rewarded for sloughtering a bunch of uncoordinated normals)

[Buster Machine 0]

There's an even easier solution out there, why not just separate the Pug and the Premade queues like quickplay?

[meteorol]

The Basilisk, on 29 May 2017 - 11:45 PM, said:

While there may be some little bits of truth in what you say there are some larger things that come to bear in FP that are not comparable to QP solo queue and patially not comparable to QP Group queue.

Coordinated loadouts and strategies.
It is one thing if a bunch of guys driving their favorite FP mechs on a saturday evening Unit FP drop or if you encounter a 12 man team that has spoken strategy and loadouts prior to drop and even having a selection of decks for either attack or defense on a hot/cold/longrange/shortrange map.

You only need a bunch of mediocre players that stay cool and are able to follow simple instructions to whipe any bunch of hardcore (QP) players on a saturday evening drink and drive trip.

And beeing on a PuG group encountering GCGB, RJF or some other guys on a coordinated training drop testing out new strategies...it...is...not....funny.

And exactly this is what should not happen.

There has to be a way to keep the overorganized Groups from running into the normal populance.

Only way I know is interactive combatvalue rating. (when you accumulate already highrated crew and equipment your combatvalue ratings skyrockets and you won't get rewarded for sloughtering a bunch of uncoordinated normals)

I'm not really following what you are trying to say here.

Are you saying that there is a huge skill difference between groups in CW that isn't there in QP? Because that would not be true. Frankly speaking, the skill difference in QP is probably even bigger. If you ever ran into an 8 man of EmP in QP (which happens very seldom nowadays), you know you are in for a very, very though ride. They are better than both GCGB or RJF could ever dream of being.

Skill difference is something that a matchmaker in CW couldn't really adress. The playerbase is not big enough. It doesn't even work in QP where 90% of this games playerbase is. Moreover, the top tier teams in this game are so far above the average that the MM wouldn't even be able to other teams for them to play against. There is a reason EmP lost... 0 drops iirc for all World Championships. It was absolutely clear that pretty much all teams in MWOWC were nothing but cannon fodder for the few top tier teams, without a realistic chance to ever get somewhere close to the finals.

The MM wouldn't even be able to find enemy teams for the few top tier teams without forcing them to play against each other all day long and wait hours for matches.

Seperating solo/group queue is really the only thing that could realistically be tried at this moment. As i said, it would need a massive influx of players to try it, which is why i did propose doing it during a huge event.

Edited by meteorol, 30 May 2017 - 12:44 AM.