425 replies to this topic

[Insanity09]

Well, technically, neither QP nor FW make PGI money directly.

Though PGI may make most of its money off of mech packs, which are tied to no particular play mode, it is in their best interest to keep the play interesting by continually adding content, often in the form of new maps or game modes.
However, your point is well taken, without enough population in faction warfare, their incentive to improve the mode, based on its apparent popularity, is marginal at best. So, new content is likely to be more geared towards QP than FW.

Unless folks can convince them to make some small changes to FW that improve the population, that is unlikely to change.

[naterist]

DarklightCA, on 08 June 2017 - 02:13 PM, said:

Your basis behind that is the select individuals that have complained on the forums spread out over the years? You add them all together you'd get like what 100 complainers?

you mean double the fw population? ya, lets do that.

and fw could totally make money. before it was "what builds can we put on this thing in this weight class?

with dropdeck tonnage limits, now we measure not by weight bracket, but different builds on different chassis off the same weight, since only certain mech combos of exactly x weight are imprtant with tonnage limits. it would sell all the mechpacks if it was the focus. especially for newer people who need mechs for dropdecks.

Edited by naterist, 08 June 2017 - 06:39 PM.

[Deathlike]

naterist, on 08 June 2017 - 09:39 AM, said:

No, i want to have a place were i can get some knew guys to learn the intracacies of mwo when respawns are in place, without having some unit between mrbc games showing up to roflstomp them into an uninstall.

Respawns add such a major difference to how you strategize and think about your mech, that qp, group or solo, CANNOT prepare you for. It adds layers you have to learn to understand in and react to in a moments notice. Trying to learn that, when you have just just a lance of people still learning, in IS mechs no less which are far less forgiving, and trying to do that while facing 12 mans of some of the best teams in the game whove been doing it for years?

Lol, good luck keeping a steady population. People may leave, but almost no one joins. You need a stepping stone, which is what a solo/smallgroup que does. From there they can get recruited by unit players who are dropping without a group at the time, or they can get a conversation with people who can show them how to do things. THEN they start getting into units, and group dropping and they get into the current system, prepped and aware of whats going on, so when they play kcom they know these basic things like how to shoot gens, and not to reinforce blindly at the very least, or theyre grouped with people who more likely than not can get them up to date ingame, as the current system is.

The difference there is that in this current system, them being grouped up with those people who can update them on tactics when their going against a top teir unit is kind of an average, to above average situation for a team, compared to the other possibilities with pugs. In my system, thats a worse case scenario.

I don't think you understand.

The basic thing a group SHOULD be doing upon spawning is regroup. Due to whatever logic PGI has decided to split certain spawns in odd and occasionally bad locations (particularly in quick play), there's pretty high chance that the occasional player goes off on their own, and tries to "do something" and usually fail miserably. In FP/CW, this is repeated multiple times, and they are off to have a bad time. In the group queue for Quick Play, less of this nonsense happens... for good reason.

"Waves" are pretty important in the context of good/proper CW/FP match. Basically, when you die, you DO NOT try to reinforce... because there's that pretty likely chance that by the time you reach the point where the battle happens, you WILL NOT be in a good position to help support the battle. In some maps, it may be less of a problem (close spawns)... but particularly in Siege/Invasion maps, it is totally infeasible to reinforce because the trek you have to make is long enough for your first "wave" or push succeeds/fails/ended.

It's basic FP/CW stuff people need to do, but don't. You WOULD NOT learn this stuff (or at least get it executed properly) if such a solo queue existed. It works betters when organized groups teach PUGs what they should be doing on a consistent basis.

naterist, on 08 June 2017 - 06:27 PM, said:

you mean double the fw population? ya, lets do that.

and fw could totally make money. before it was "what builds can we put on this thing in this weight class?

with dropdeck tonnage limits, now we measure not by weight bracket, but different builds on different chassis off the same weight, since only certain mech combos of exactly x weight are imprtant with tonnage limits. it would sell all the mechpacks if it was the focus. especially for newer people who need mechs for dropdecks.

Doubling very little still means you have very little. Doubling a lot means you're doubling a lot. Doubling the regular population does very little for the game... making (smart) major changes in FP/CW in fixing what ails it is required at this point in time. Split queues does NOT achieve this.

[Deathlike]

I'm going to say in advance that your answers are not real rebuttals (if anything it's a red herring or strawman argument).

Insanity09, on 08 June 2017 - 02:44 PM, said:

Main Problem: FW populations are low, and getting worse, for many reasons.

Solution?: The suggestion has been made, with several different variations, to divide the queue up, into solo vs group, to make a more initially friendly FW experience. (this is NOT the unit vs. non-unit queue apparently tried before.)
The idea, mainly, is that in the short term there might be an increase in the group FW queue wait times, but in the long term the hope is that more incoming population would improve the times.
Rebuttal: It is suggested that creating a solo/group divided queue for FW would result in experienced players 'sync' dropping so they could annihilate people in the FW solo q who were less accustomed to team play.
Response: Sync drops are a somewhat a chancy maneuver. With low population, yes, this absolutely would happen. With a high population, large numbers of drops at any given time... less successful as a way to game the system. Also, it seems like there should be easy ways to code and prevent this from happening repeatedly.
Moreover, it is kind of expected that more experienced FW players would also be dropping in the solo queue, hopefully in order to advise and help the less FW-able players to skill up, identifying candidates for moving to the more organized group queue, etc. (instead of just wanting the kill the greens).

TBH, trying to manipulate solos is really ineffective in the existing solo queue. The problem you have is that there's usually not enough trust between players to accomplish this.

Your bigger problem is actual participation.

Because you are dependent on 24 people (12 on each side) to queue up, there can be a queue stall when population queued up is uneven (as in, more on the Clan side than IS side) and that causes people to stop queuing if the wait time is too long. This is why grouping up in bigger numbers (with groups) tends to get things done quickly. This has been proven time and time again when we had queue visuals back in Phase 1 and 2 of FP/CW.

Quote

Solution?: It has also been suggested that the FW queue be divided by 'skill', primarily PSR tier.
Rebuttal: There are numerous arguments against a tier based split. PSR is not a true measure of skill. FW matches do not contribute to PSR. Given 5 tiers, an even split does not seem possible. Grouping with friends of highly different tiers becomes impossible. Subject to abuse by alt account creation (effectively permanent, because FW matches don't change PSR).

Solution?: Implement more FW events (or incorporate more FW based goals into existing/upcoming events) to encourage people to play FW, or at least to give it a try.
Rebuttal: The large population of non-FW MWO players simply do not wish to play FW. Only certain units gain the MC rewards for tagging a planet (and the methodology behind how a units gets to tag a planet is suspect), and the rest of the rewards, given the 'difficulty' of FW play are simply not enticing enough.
Response: It is true that the faction reputation rewards are a bit of a grind. Even though the rewards for invasion mode tend to be much better, cbill-wise, than those of QP, the time investment an complexity seem to conceal that. Events give tangible, reasonable and achievable goals that clearly do get players to try FW. If FW did not tend to crush those trying it, the supposition is that more people would be inclined to continue playing it.
Further, there have been suggestions on potential changes to the FW reward system that might make it more attractive, in an obvious way, to a broader player base on a more regular, non-event driven basis (loyalty points, altering the reputation system, etc).

I hate to tell you.. if we have to be bribed constantly, it's not a good system. Full stop.

You have to fundamentally change how FP/CW works (like, giving it a purpose and/or some level of depth, instead of what little of it we have now). That requires rethinking of how Invasion/Siege maps functions (noone liked spawn killing when they originally designed the maps for Phase 1 and parts of Phase 2). Funnels are not fun when you are FORCED to walk through them as attackers... as a prime example (it makes it super easy on defense.. assuming people knows what they are supposed to do - again, requires organized groups to teach/remind people).

Quote

Again, the overarching problem is low FW population.
There are, in truth, MANY reasons for that.
The queue split idea, in all its forms, seems intended to help resolve that portion of the problem that seems to be based in the new(er) FW player getting crushed, in a non-learning way, by more organized teams. It might work, it might not.
If you have an alternate solution, or wish to highlight a different reason for the low FW pop, have at. I'm also fairly certain I may have missed some main suggested solutions, but the thread (and related ones) are getting to be too much to read in limited time. I'm happy to see solutions I've missed.
I always enjoy reading constructive posts on an obvious issue.

I've already proposed the ideas multiple times on it... mainly because the solo player (regardless of whether he's new or not) needs to be ON THE SAME PAGE as the organized group. Emphasis is in caps for a reason. You're not even expected to do well, but as long as you follow the directions (which means playing as a team), games tend to go better... even if it is a loss. Often times it's just people are not trained or taught... and that's what grouping is all about... even if you are solo... playing along with the teams you are on (and this means minimal "skittles" - random players from teams/no-unit)... the better it is for everyone involved.

My case is stated extensively here:
https://mwomercs.com...__fromsearch__1

Edited by Deathlike, 08 June 2017 - 07:00 PM.

[50 50]

Commander A9, on 08 June 2017 - 02:42 PM, said:

Easy, fellas.

I'm thinking new players need to be put through a mandatory training mode which they have to successfully complete before they get the opportunity to play Faction Warfare. Nothing super hard: just drills about moving to locations quickly, hitting targets, identifying critical targets, and dueling an enemy...just like Mechwarrior 2's training sequences for Clans and with Deadeye.

I thought Faction Play wasn't available until the cadet ranks had been completed. Is that not the case?
I could understand that this may not be enough of a lead in, but what would be an acceptable 'gate'?
The harder it is to join or the more restrictive the mode is made, the less people will care about playing it.
There really needs to be a way that players can filter into the mode and gain some experience as they move toward the deeper end of the pool.

I just can't see it happening with the current 12 v 12 staged arena style of battles though.
It can even be a brutal experience in Scouting but at least there you don't get forced into throwing additional waves of mechs into a situation where you are hopelessly outmatched.

To drop wait times to 0, to allow newer players to experience the mode and have a chance to mingle with bigger units and to allow the bigger units to also have that 'deep end of the pool' experience we need some substantial changes to the mode and the only way I can see it working is by removing some of the restrictions, allowing us to drop in and out of a single scenario and move to an open warfare system.

Commander A9, on 08 June 2017 - 04:33 PM, said:

One problem at hand is Faction Warfare doesn't make PGI any money.

As a for-profit institution, PGI is going to prioritize developing content that makes them quick cash.

Like the mech packs.

PGI got the veteran's money and threw CW at them to keep them entertained when the grizzled old vets lost faith in PGI.

So...new maps for CW doesn't make PGI any money...so I don't forsee anything new coming to CW (except Incursion and weighted game modes, god forbid).

Had a bit of a think on this over lunch.
Quick play doesn't really generate income either, not by itself, but if we wanted to have Faction Play provide some sort of incentive to players that could generate money then there are a couple of options.

Mechs, obviously.
But not just any mechs.
Faction mechs..... or let's call them Totem mechs (T)..... don't think we've used the (T)
This would have to be the quickest and easiest option and they don't even need new variants.
Consider this little idea:
We have the champion mechs, special mechs, hero mechs etc and they provide some c-bill or xp bonuses.
A totem mech, at it's simplest, could provide more reputation or loyalty points if it related to the faction you are fighting for.
Pretty easy.

But there is more.
The Totem mechs are typically considered not the best options to include in the drop decks so what would make them more appealing?
Answer: The drop deck tonnage limits.
What if totem mechs did not use their full weight in the drop deck? eg. An 80 ton totem mech actually only used up 70 tons in the drop deck.
I would think that would be fairly easy to implement as well.

Could have a unique faction camo as well for a bit of bling. We get it for the hero mechs, if these Totem mechs were essential a hero, that doesn't seem too outrageous.

To make them even more viable we need some additional features added where these mechs provide an additional bonus.
I'll refer you to my thoughts on repairs, rearm or loot and logistics features for Faction Play where Totem mechs could apply modifiers.

I do see two problems with the loyalty/reputation point bonus for the mechs.
1. Do freelancers actually accrue any points? From what I can tell, they don't.
2. The collection of the points is a one way, get to the top and you are done system. It's not future proof so there is no reason to continue using the mechs once you have attained the level you want. There is not even a reason to stay with your faction beyond it's the one you like. We have to have a reason to keep earning those points and that means we need to be able to spend them.... ie. using our loyalty points as a currency.

Other than that, a variety of MC items specific to faction play would help to generate development interest on this side of the game. These could be cosmetic, but with a few additional features they could be much more practical.

Bit of a side track there guys, but it was an interesting point to be raised by the Commander.

Edited by 50 50, 08 June 2017 - 11:36 PM.

[MustrumRidcully]

Leggin Ho, on 08 June 2017 - 10:47 AM, said:

So your suggesting that unit tagged players can drop in with non tagged players in their own little FP que. Two words for you that WILL happen if PGI is crazy enough to do that, just like it used to happen in QP before the solo and group ques..... Sync Drops and in a FP que folks in either faction KNOW they will get on the same team. That's the main reason most folks are trying to tell you it won't work. Been here since MWO started and have already seen that happen, you were not here for that and the salt flowed freely about it. FP was one answer as it was to be the Units palayground but PGI still allowed the non group players access to it.

Then the match-maker could stop people from the same unit to drop together, or if they drop together, only if there are also similar same-unit teams on the other. That means that if you want to sync-drop, you need seperate units. That sure will exist (nothing stopping from different units to form a sync-dropping meta-unit, I suppose), but it will add hurdles that will less commonly be broken.

If we assume that the Solo Queue is the "training wheels", you could also do things like not rewarding loyality for Solo Queue matches, or at least a lot less, so groups that want to get the higher tier loyality rewards for their faction/mercenary group want to focus on those.

[PFC Carsten]

DarklightCA, on 08 June 2017 - 01:30 PM, said:

Faction Play is already rewarding. Between all the free stuff you get with LP rewards to planetary rewards, you get a lot of things for playing it. However Faction Play is not meant as a new player training ground.

There shouldn't be a new player experience because they shouldn't be allowed in Faction Play to begin with until they learn the game mechanics and gained enough mechs to bring a actual optimal deck.

Welcome to the barren and desert reality, that faction play has been turned into by exactly this approach over years. Proof-of-Fail.

Commander A9, on 08 June 2017 - 02:42 PM, said:

Meanwhile, I also don't advocate for "leveling the playing field" by handicapping better players, or artificially propping up lower-skilled players. When you click "Fight Now," you assume the risk, and if you lose, so be it. Learn from a loss. We all did.

The learning experience from being focussed down time and again in a mere 2 seconds is rather short. What most people that still even play this game seem to have learned from it is this: Stay clear of FaP.

Sometimes, the greed (i.e. events) or the hope of better balanced matches because of more PUGs on both sides (i.e. events) can offset that learning experience for a few days. Usually once a year.

Edited by PFC Carsten, 09 June 2017 - 12:06 AM.

[Kubernetes]

PFC Carsten, on 08 June 2017 - 11:58 PM, said:

The learning experience from being focussed down time and again in a mere 2 seconds is rather short. What most people that still even play this game seem to have learned from it is this: Stay clear of FaP.

Potato-thinking.

[godmonkey]

PFC Carsten, on 08 June 2017 - 11:58 PM, said:

... or the hope of better balanced matches because of more PUGs on both sides (i.e. events) can offset that learning experience for a few days.

who really thinks that FP in any game will ever be Balanced in any meaningful way? Nobody that has played any game with FP in it as it never is balanced nor will it be as it goes against the core purpose of the mode.
It is ment for the soulless metasucking tryhards like me and numerous others that are in a unit and want to duke it out with others.
Being the boy sitting on a stump a snivelling about that the other football players that play against him are better and have better tactics for the game and they communicate are cheating becasue they are in a team is just really childish.

Look i'm not saying this as some entitled elitist dimwit but the core point is that every game needs something where the good players can duke it out against each other and occasionally some randoms drop in to see how the life in the fast lane goes.
Expecting then to be able to compete equally with them is...it really boggles my mind.
Put in effort and Git Gud as the saying goes and stop snivelling about it. I've been on the receiveing end of this type of gameplay and did i sulk and cry about it on some forums? **** no. I improved my gameplay, studied the tactics and used the dark souls formula for improvement: Git Gud.
Joining a decent unit also helps as they can give you some good FP builds and use the OP meta of battlecomms to , i dunno, actualyl win games. Losing teams in FP never communicate and barely follow any orders if someone managed to find their nutsack and microphone and actually say something.

I played yesterday 2 drops in FP with complete pugs. I tried to lead them but there was no communication from the other players and the builds and tactics used by the players...the less said the better.

[TWIAFU]

James Argent, on 08 June 2017 - 12:33 PM, said:

Stop looking at FW population as a zero sum game. Splitting the queues will bring more people to the mode in the long run. Sure, at the very beginning there will be the division of the existing FW population, but as more people catch on and find FW accessible to them, they'll play it more. Many of these people will eventually group up and fill the ranks of the group queue.

So, split the queues so solo only play solo. That will magically cause solo to form, join, and use groups?!?!?

Splitting queues will make solo stop playing solo and start playing in groups?

So, you are going to play in this separate queue for solo only and then, suddenly, see that grouping is the way to play in CW?

Really?

Why not just start grouping now and skip the middle man of a separate queue if in fact the final result you want is solo's making groups and playing as a group. Why not put your money where your mouth is and get the ball rolling and get your solo friends to join you in a group?

[PFC Carsten]

godmonkey, on 09 June 2017 - 02:34 AM, said:

who really thinks that FP in any game will ever be Balanced in any meaningful way? Nobody that has played any game with FP in it as it never is balanced nor will it be as it goes against the core purpose of the mode.
It is ment for the soulless metasucking tryhards like me and numerous others that are in a unit and want to duke it out with others.
Being the boy sitting on a stump a snivelling about that the other football players that play against him are better and have better tactics for the game and they communicate are cheating becasue they are in a team is just really childish.

Look i'm not saying this as some entitled elitist dimwit but the core point is that every game needs something where the good players can duke it out against each other and occasionally some randoms drop in to see how the life in the fast lane goes.
Expecting then to be able to compete equally with them is...it really boggles my mind.
Put in effort and Git Gud as the saying goes and stop snivelling about it. I've been on the receiveing end of this type of gameplay and did i sulk and cry about it on some forums? **** no. I improved my gameplay, studied the tactics and used the dark souls formula for improvement: Git Gud.
Joining a decent unit also helps as they can give you some good FP builds and use the OP meta of battlecomms to , i dunno, actualyl win games. Losing teams in FP never communicate and barely follow any orders if someone managed to find their nutsack and microphone and actually say something.

I played yesterday 2 drops in FP with complete pugs. I tried to lead them but there was no communication from the other players and the builds and tactics used by the players...the less said the better.

Proof of ... "entitled elitist dimwit". Because this:
"the core point is that every game needs something where the good players can duke it out against each other and occasionally some randoms drop in to see how the life in the fast lane goes."
Is exactly what is proposed: separate queues.

You and your likes can "duke it out" in the fast lane, not feeling "entitled elitist dimwit" but rather enjoy a sense of homecoming or whatever floats your boat and the "the boy sitting on a stump" can do so as well. Everyone happy.

Reading comprehension. That's taught in 6th grade with english as the first foreign language. Not very prevalent with the self-proclaimed "good players", it seems.

Seriously, though: „Balanced“ as in „both teams have a high chance of being roughly equally PUGgy“... reading comprehension.

Kubernetes, on 09 June 2017 - 02:20 AM, said:

Potato-thinking.

At least some kind of thinking, i.e. making the (two?) brain cells communicate. First step to a better world as opposed as copy-and-pasting the same nonsense phrases in a forum over and over again.

Edited by PFC Carsten, 09 June 2017 - 04:12 AM.

[DarklightCA]

PFC Carsten, on 08 June 2017 - 11:58 PM, said:

The learning experience from being focussed down time and again in a mere 2 seconds is rather short. What most people that still even play this game seem to have learned from it is this: Stay clear of FaP.

Sometimes, the greed (i.e. events) or the hope of better balanced matches because of more PUGs on both sides (i.e. events) can offset that learning experience for a few days. Usually once a year.

Why did you get focused? Were you out of position, were you ahead of your team, were you poking too much or not using cover, did you not torso twist, were you exposing too much.

There are so many more questions you can ask yourself, especially if it only took 2 seconds to die. You can answer those questions and learn from it. Anybody that chooses to quit over learning from their own mistakes wouldn't have enjoyed any portion of Faction Play that wasn't the part where they got to shoot turrets.

[nehebkau]

Maybe PGI should invest a little time in a FW training portion in the academy.

[PFC Carsten]

godmonkey, on 09 June 2017 - 04:44 AM, said:

Urh we already have a PUG game mode and it's called quickplay. Why the hell should FW be catered to the same crowd as QP is?

So, what are you going to lose? Afraid that there are no more seals to club? Why the hell should FaP NOT be available to everyone to each's own ability?

godmonkey, on 09 June 2017 - 04:44 AM, said:

Separate ques are sort of bad as nobody really can regularly drop 12 mans these days, sure there are exceptions to that, but the group version of the FP que needs the filler pilots. This would totally kill any remaining group version of the que and then all the meta sucking tryhards would drop in the solo que. Whopee pugs lose again and the QQ continues on the forums.

I regularly face people from various units in Solo queue. No problem with that. No QQ, no insults, give and receive a beating. Don't know what you talk about. No one looses, except tryhards who might miss their seals...

godmonkey, on 09 June 2017 - 04:44 AM, said:

I prefer to fight decent battles in FP instead of stomping herrings in the barrel, that has never been the question for me but the self entitled mute players that want to benfit from the game mode without ever spending any effort for it is.

Good, I prefer decent battles as well, in QP as well as FaP. I, on the other hand, do not wish to exlcude anyone from the game, who just wants to have fun in it.

[PFC Carsten]

DarklightCA, on 09 June 2017 - 06:18 AM, said:

Why did you get focused? Were you out of position, were you ahead of your team, were you poking too much or not using cover, did you not torso twist, were you exposing too much.

There are so many more questions you can ask yourself, especially if it only took 2 seconds to die. You can answer those questions and learn from it. Anybody that chooses to quit over learning from their own mistakes wouldn't have enjoyed any portion of Faction Play that wasn't the part where they got to shoot turrets.

Do not mistake me for one of our beloved seals, even though I take side for them. I HAVE received the bloody end of the stick and I have handed it to others as well. I CAN take a beating and it only motivates me to improve.

But I know that the majority of players are not as resilient and your argument "how can you know" is proven by the empty halls of FaP outside of events.

[DarklightCA]

PFC Carsten, on 09 June 2017 - 07:48 AM, said:

Do not mistake me for one of our beloved seals, even though I take side for them. I HAVE received the bloody end of the stick and I have handed it to others as well. I CAN take a beating and it only motivates me to improve.

But I know that the majority of players are not as resilient and your argument "how can you know" is proven by the empty halls of FaP outside of events.

I don't know who you are but that was a general question in regards to your comment about players who have left because they get focused down and die in seconds which you thought was too short to learn from. I provided you with examples of what people can learn from it.

I also never said "how can you know". I said anybody who chooses to leave because they are being beaten instead of learning why they are being beaten and change. They wouldn't have enjoyed any part of Faction Play regardless.

You can't shield people from being beaten in a video game who don't choose to avoid the reasons they get beat. Unless we want to make a third queue for all the players who can't torso twist, wander off on their own, bring LRM's, constantly over expose themselves, etc.

Edited by DarklightCA, 09 June 2017 - 12:20 PM.

[naterist]

he right though. this place is a freaking ghost town without the influx of players from qp. your current arguements against a solo que have been tried time after time, and nothing gets fixed. youll even notice that a lot of the streamers like kanajashi and a couple others during tukk 3 were saying one of the bigger problems with fw is a lack of a matchmaker by groupsize/skill. its apparent to everyone whos new to the mode, but apparently its a goddamn mystery to anyone else.

just admit your wrong, its not that hard.

[Ssamout]

What? You mean put in a matchmaker that creates these matches where steering wheel ******* are grouped with soulless meta ****** like the quickplay is know? That would work out perfectly. Or the group queue where blood sucking tryhards farm baby seals just like in faction play. Which one you prefer?

The skill difference in remaining population is so big that I dont believe a working "balanced" matchmaker is possible anymore. Better to just learn that lrms dont work but in just few maps and aggression wins matches. Better you know just like learn to play. Its not that hard.

[naterist]

matchmaker is their words, not mine. however! the point isnt lost that they can tell somethings up from game one.

[MischiefSC]

Yet again.

Put the FP content, maps/modes, in QP. Already a MM and queue split there. People who just want to play the content and derp can and then rage about how it's always someone elses fault when they lose can play it there. A forum like this is not an environment where you're going to teach self-respect, personal accountability and the desire to achieve to anyone. It's a game, for some people any amount of 'effort' isn't fun. Participation trophies didn't get created on a lark, they exist to fill a need for a significant segment of the human population.

The whole issue around 'teams are so mean' isn't something anyone here is going to fix. The real question is how do you make FW compelling at an energy/effort/investment level PGI would be willing to take a shot at. Some form of concrete faction identity, be that loyalist or merc. Something to 'be invested in'. Some form of faction level logistics - not so that players have to spend a crap ton of time out of match doing accounting but having fights that really matter winning or losing and that give those 'factions' tools (ideally slightly individually unique tools) to drive their populations and other populations to shift to win the fights that matter or recover from losing the ones that matter.

That would get units back. It would go a long way toward making FW more like what was promised years ago that got everyone excited about the idea originally.

Edited by MischiefSC, 09 June 2017 - 12:34 PM.