86 replies to this topic

[Ajantise]

But what would be a better way than to give players choice and a way to see if there is an imbalance?
RANDOM IS/CLAN only would teach us that.
Even for a day.
I bet that all IS only pilots would jump at this option, and never look back ;-)

[Ced Riggs]

Ajantise, on 30 May 2017 - 02:53 AM, said:

I bet that all IS only pilots would jump at this option, and never look back ;-)

That's an easy bet where you would lose money quicker than a clan mech loses armor in a poke duel with an IS mech. You seem to believe your opinion is representative for all IS pilots. Just with myself alone, you're already wrong on that front. I would find it incredibly boring to see half of the mechs taken out of my matches.

[Ajantise]

Ced Riggs, on 30 May 2017 - 02:57 AM, said:

That's an easy bet where you would lose money quicker than a clan mech loses armor in a poke duel with an IS mech. You seem to believe your opinion is representative for all IS pilots. Just with myself alone, you're already wrong on that front. I would find it incredibly boring to see half of the mechs taken out of my matches.

You are the first IS only pilot that i know of who would not like an option to play equal game now and again. It gets a little bit tiring from time to time playing, when you know you are at a disadvantage to your enemy.

[Ced Riggs]

Ajantise, on 30 May 2017 - 03:18 AM, said:

You are the first IS only pilot that i know of who would not like an option to play equal game now and again. It gets a little bit tiring from time to time playing, when you know you are at a disadvantage to your enemy.

1,) I play Clams in FW, because my unit picked Clams. I play a mix of IS and Clams in QP, mostly IS, doe.
2,) But you aren't, which is what I keep trying to point out and you keep trying to ignore.

Really, maybe I can help from a different angle - what mechs and loadouts are you running that you feel at a disadvantage?

[Ajantise]

Ced Riggs, on 30 May 2017 - 03:25 AM, said:

1,) I play Clams in FW, because my unit picked Clams. I play a mix of IS and Clams in QP, mostly IS, doe.
2,) But you aren't, which is what I keep trying to point out and you keep trying to ignore.

Really, maybe I can help from a different angle - what mechs and loadouts are you running that you feel at a disadvantage?

AlLL!, primarily because of the engine weight (CLAN XL) and more weapons with lesser slots for the clan. I am sorry if you cant accept these simple facts ;-)

[TWIAFU]

Ced Riggs, on 29 May 2017 - 06:53 AM, said:

.

I see, you prefer it would only rain in your garden, damn the neighbors. Good to know you don't care about half of the game's population. You either play a dfifferent game than me, or you are willfully blind to the reality of what's going on in the game right now.

No, I actually hope Civil War means, dunno, Civil War.

I do play a different game, I play IS. Try it out for an extended period and you will see it too. Or you can continually be blind and willfully ignorant of to what is going on to the other half of the game.

[Ced Riggs]

Ajantise, on 30 May 2017 - 03:44 AM, said:

AlLL!, primarily because of the engine weight (CLAN XL) and more weapons with lesser slots for the clan. I am sorry if you cant accept these simple facts ;-)

We are going in circles, you continue to ignore provided examples to the contrary. At that point, have a good day. Further debate appears to be pointless.

TWIAFU, on 30 May 2017 - 03:51 AM, said:

No, I actually hope Civil War means, dunno, Civil War.

I hope so, too. Not that Clans were asleep during the CivWar, but, some lore impacts would be great.

TWIAFU, on 30 May 2017 - 03:51 AM, said:

try it out for an extended period and you will see it too. Or you can continually be blind and willfully ignorant of to what is going on to the other half of the game.

I play IS. Are you confused by the green bird avatar?

Ced Riggs, on 30 May 2017 - 03:25 AM, said:

1,) I play Clams in FW, because my unit picked Clams. I play a mix of IS and Clams in QP, mostly IS, doe.

[Wayland]

Maybe an IS vs IS bucket would fail. But how would we know till we try. I know IS players that simply don't play CW anymore as they have no interest in playing clans because of tech imbalance reasons and lore.

Give IS players some options instead of having them drop against clan after clan. It just stops being fun after a while, especially in the large open maps where the range and alpha advantage can get demoralizing, especially for pug vs pug battles.

Just try it for a month and see how it goes. CW in its current state is dying and the clan players saying no balance problems, and constantly dismiss the IS players point of view, enjoy ur one hour wait times.

[Ajantise]

Wayland, on 30 May 2017 - 03:57 AM, said:

Maybe an IS vs IS bucket would fail. But how would we know till we try. I know IS players that simply don't play CW anymore as they have no interest in playing clans because of tech imbalance reasons and lore.

Give IS players some options instead of having them drop against clan after clan. It just stops being fun after a while, especially in the large open maps where the range and alpha advantage can get demoralizing, especially for pug vs pug battles.

Just try it for a month and see how it goes. CW in its current state is dying and the clan players saying no balance problems, and constantly dismiss the IS players point of view, enjoy ur one hour wait times.

THANK YOU!

Ced Riggs, on 30 May 2017 - 03:57 AM, said:

We are going in circles, you continue to ignore provided examples to the contrary. At that point, have a good day. Further debate appears to be pointless.

I gave my arguments that you ignore.
Let's agree to disagree?

Edited by Ajantise, 30 May 2017 - 04:02 AM.

[Ced Riggs]

Ajantise, on 30 May 2017 - 04:01 AM, said:

THANK YOU!
I gave my arguments that you ignore.
Let's agree to disagree?

Not sure what you are thanking him for, as he hasn't added anything, other than repeating the same, worn-out non-arguments you brought forth. And yes, agree to disagree. Your arguments aren't satisfactory because they are factually wrong. Your list of 10 thinghs has been dismantled down to 2 things, and those two things are compensated by other factors you repeatedly decided to not take into account because they don't fit your narrative.

I am sorry that we have come to this stalemate, but if you keep argueing from personal predisposition and willful ignorance, then we won't find a consensus. I'm piloting my fair share of IS mechs from lights to heavies, and I haven't even touched Assaults like the Battlemaster. If you opt to ignore that the IS has multiple Tier 1 mechs and loadouts, and has significant advantages in QP and FW, then we'll simple argue until we are blue in the face.

[Ajantise]

Ced Riggs, on 30 May 2017 - 04:07 AM, said:

Not sure what you are thanking him for, as he hasn't added anything, other than repeating the same, worn-out non-arguments you brought forth. And yes, agree to disagree. Your arguments aren't satisfactory because they are factually wrong. Your list of 10 thinghs has been dismantled down to 2 things, and those two things are compensated by other factors you repeatedly decided to not take into account because they don't fit your narrative.

I am sorry that we have come to this stalemate, but if you keep argueing from personal predisposition and willful ignorance, then we won't find a consensus. I'm piloting my fair share of IS mechs from lights to heavies, and I haven't even touched Assaults like the Battlemaster. If you opt to ignore that the IS has multiple Tier 1 mechs and loadouts, and has significant advantages in QP and FW, then we'll simple argue until we are blue in the face.

I dont think that you "dismantled" anything and arguments stand. Anybody can see that. You only convinced yourself of that friend.

example:
I say Clan has Laser alpha with more range and more weapons, and you say they have more heat.
But with one shot alphas if you dont explode, you can cool down behind a building from 100% and you got an exploit.
"Dismantled"? I think not.

I say Clan has XL engine that leaves you in the game after side torso destruction, you say yes but after how many years you will get a worse version (LTE) that the Clan has now.
"Dismantled"? I think not.

........there is more.... if you like?

All arguments are simple facts, i just pointed some more then others because they have bigger impact on the game.
I dont want to argue with anybody, i just want a choice of a fair game.

Random IS only drops would be a great way of ending this argument. If it is popular then i am correct, if not you are....

Edited by Ajantise, 30 May 2017 - 07:41 AM.

[Almond Brown]

Not sure how making I.S. fight just I.S. and Clan fight only Clan would help with game Balance? Is there an imbalance between Clan Mechs, or I.S. Mechs fighting against each other?

If you truly want just I.S. vs I.S. fighting then you are in luck. BattleTech and or MW5 are coming.

[Ced Riggs]

Almond Brown, on 30 May 2017 - 08:22 AM, said:

Is there an imbalance between Clan Mechs, or I.S. Mechs fighting against each other?

Disparrging disparity in performance among IS mechs and among Clan mechs. If you pit the worst IS mechs against the best IS mechs, it's going to be even worse than it is now, and people are going to simply shift their tears to the next target: "Battlemasters need nerfs...!!"

[Almond Brown]

Ced Riggs, on 30 May 2017 - 08:48 AM, said:

Disparrging disparity in performance among IS mechs and among Clan mechs. If you pit the worst IS mechs against the best IS mechs, it's going to be even worse than it is now, and people are going to simply shift their tears to the next target: "Battlemasters need nerfs...!!"

So if we do split Clan and IS out for "balance" then we would need to split out the Lights from Mediums and Heavies and Assaults, and while we are at it why not split them off into their exact weight classes and then try and "Balance" the whole mess across those separate groups, then we can "RE-RE-Balance" ALL of them when they all get to fight in the same Pool, liker they do now.

FACT: Some Mechs will be better at certain "roles" than other Mechs. Trying to make all of them "good at everything" is an exercise in futility really, but some seem to think that is what "balance" actually is. ALL are exactly same per category.

Edited by Almond Brown, 30 May 2017 - 09:10 AM.

[Ajantise]

Because everybody is muddying the waters now and diverting answers, let me clarify.

1.There is a imbalance in IS/Clan Engines, Weapons, Slots, Targeting Computers a few more things.

2.In MP games like MWO every imbalance is multiplied by players wanting to exploite the game.

3.IF the game is not balanced between the main factions like all other MP games, only solution is:

Random and CW drops with IS/Clan only battles.

[Ced Riggs]

Ajantise, on 30 May 2017 - 10:28 AM, said:

1.There is a imbalance in IS/Clan Engines, Weapons, Slots, Targeting Computers a few more things.

... and in durability, armor, structure, burn times, facetime, projectile count, missile density, mobility/agility, chassis choices. Yes. Please stop painting the picture so one-sided.

[Mystere]

Force Clan Formation vs. Clan Formation, IS Formation vs. IS Formation, and Clan Formation vs. IS Formation, based on player availability and the drop at hand.

This is not rocket science.

[Ajantise]

Ced Riggs, on 30 May 2017 - 10:34 AM, said:

... and in durability, armor, structure, burn times, facetime, projectile count, missile density, mobility/agility, chassis choices. Yes. Please stop painting the picture so one-sided.

But when it comes to some exploits, there are advantages that outweigh others.
In some cases the drawbacks don't came in to play at all.
And the Clan has the best ones...

[CJ Daxion]

vibrant, on 28 May 2017 - 02:31 AM, said:

I want random stock mech quickplay, where you select a weight class and get dumped in an entirely random stock mech from in that range. I think neither of us will get what we want. ^^

You already have that.. its called private matches..

But i do find it intersting how many people say i want stock matches.. Because the stock mechs are clearly so far out of balance it's not even funny. If people say normal balance is bad, Stock balance is only 10X worse.

[Ced Riggs]

Ajantise, on 30 May 2017 - 11:24 AM, said:

But when it comes to some exploits, there are advantages that outweigh others.
In some cases the drawbacks don't came in to play at all.
And the Clan has the best ones...

Like having 25 tons more for dropdecks and being able to field the best Assault twice and having a good 20 ton mech to further make better use of the tonnage.
Like having short ranges when there's a standard engagement of ~300m.
And the Clans cannot dictate where IS goes, because IS can weather storms Clans cannot.

Again. We are turning in circles. As long as you cannot admit to the obvious and decisive strengths IS chassis have, you will not reach your goal of balance. It is imperative to look at both sides without bias, and be aware of universal strengths, specific strengths and how they all play together. Clantech comes at a price, too. It's not free. And if you bash your IS tech, despite the strengths it has, you are only harming yourself.

No clanner goes into FW with a MystLynx other than as a stocking stuffer, and the MystLynx is poop. IS can take the Locust and not feel bad, and still have more tonnage than an entire clan drop deck available. Please, please, please try to see these advantages and stop trying to handwave them away. It's infuriating.