105 replies to this topic

[Exilyth]

dario03, on 07 June 2017 - 01:39 PM, said:

Not if you're in group queue. Might be why it isn't uncommon to not see lights in group queue.

Yes, due to the weight restrictions.

Group queue has mostly ACHs and LCTs though.

[dario03]

Exilyth, on 07 June 2017 - 03:55 PM, said:

Yes, due to the weight restrictions.

Group queue has mostly ACHs and LCTs though.

When it has lights maybe. But not uncommon to just not have any lights on one or both teams.

[JediPanther]

Lights for the most part are still crap excluding the lucky two of ach and lct. I've been playing my twelve or so lcts,jenners,panthers,ravens and spiders. Nearly all of them benefit from small amount of survival tree but it's about one alpha or one and a half alpha if you are really good with your dodging and zag-ing. The first skills I go for? Speed tweak and kinetic burst mandatory on nearly all my lights. From there I might go firepower for weapon cool down and heat gen nodes then pump a few points into mech ops for more cool run. 75 points for the mobility's 40 and 35 for survival doesn't leave much else. some times I try and get radar derp at 60% but most the time I just go for more weapon cool down and heat gen.

I did just rambo a mad 2c in frozen valley because the pug team was being timid and far too passive with the lct-3s using a sml and 3x srm 2 build. I shot up a uav and distracted most of the enemy assults while team poke sniped two kills then slowly decided to advance to brawl range whilst I was pew pink-ing at the mad's legs.

it's a sad time when it takes one of the worst lct's to lead an assault.

[Weeny Machine]

Ruar, on 07 June 2017 - 12:03 PM, said:

Their agility didn't get nerfed, neither did their speed. The problem with speeding them up is you mess up hit registration. I think the problem is people expect the larger lights to be speed boats doing significant damage with small lasers and MGs when they should be designed around skirmishing/sniping/flanking. Instead of speed and agility they could probably use an armor upgrade to let them fill that role.

Yes, the agility and speed wasn't nerfed (if you invest in Mobility). However, a class which is all about speed and agility to survive got (in case of 35t mechs) its size enlarged to a degree where it is ridiculously easy to hit. The skill tree was a chance to make them worth to field again. Instead the same old problem exists: they cannot evade much damage from heavies and most assaults which make you feel quite fragile, especially when you have mostly T1-3 players in the match.

As for skirmishing etc.

1. Sniping - you are a second rate sniper at best. What you can do is done better by a fast medium

2. Skirmishing/Harassing/flanking - if you want to pack a punch and not sprinkle some damage over the enemy like a LRM boat then you need to load up many close range weapons simply because out of weight reasons. Which brings you near the fatties again.
My Wolfhound didn't take any damage, had invested ca. 20 points in Survival and still one alpha from an Atlas did take his arm off - my "mistake" was that I was flanking and I peeked in the wrong place where the enemy Atlas was idling. Had I not reacted immediately and turned, this alpha would have hit a torso.

Do not get me wrong. I can get matches like these, too (a screenie from yesterday). However, the effort I have to put in achieving such numbers is completely different than playing for example a heavy mech. This is simply not balanced.

Edited by Bush Hopper, 07 June 2017 - 11:00 PM.

[DGTLDaemon]

I've been practicing my light-fu lately, for lack of better entertainment And I've lost count of how many heavies and assaults I've solo killed in my ACH, despite me being a terribad light pilot. You just have to get creative when you're playing a light - crawl up on people and backstab them, pop up and fire from unexpected directions when your opponent is distracted by your teammates, hold locks to have your LRM boats rain death on the enemy. And the good old light wolfpack works just as well as before. The problem is that a lot of light pilots expect to be able to walk up to a heavy or an assault and just circle strafe them to death, and when they get punished for that, they start crying about lights being underpowered. But this is simply not the case.

[Weeny Machine]

FupDup, on 07 June 2017 - 01:43 PM, said:

It's pretty much always been low, and probably always will be since the people who want lights improved are a "vocal minority."

The problem is that a lot of heavy and assault jocks think they should automatically win because they sit in a much heavier mech. They take that for granted and if they get shot down by a light, they throw a fit.

On the other hand they totally reject the idea that heavies and assaults should be sluggish. But no, they throw also a fit there if these heavy classes do not behave like prima ballerinas.
They want their cake and eat it, too. Too bad that PGI caters to them again and again. I cannot count the direct and indirect nerfs the light mech class has had to take

Edited by Bush Hopper, 08 June 2017 - 05:29 AM.

[LordNothing]

its a case of mech entropy. pgi simply doesnt release enough light mechs. the ones i have ive played to death. i click on the light tab and its a waste land. i like to play lights but i usually use a jenner, locust or arctic chetah, sometimes il go old skool and use one of my many ravens, but its usually just deck fill. and using a light for deck fill on the is side is pretty hard. seing as you have enough tonnage for an assault 2 heavies and a medium, or two assaults a heavy and a light. not great deck choices frankly.

[DGTLDaemon]

Bush Hopper, on 08 June 2017 - 05:27 AM, said:

They want their cake and eat it, too. Too bad that PGI caters to them again and again. I cannot count the direct and indirect nerfs the light mech class has had to take

And what do light pilots want? For heavies and assaults to be so slow and sluggish that they would be helpless against a light on their own? Which is, by the way, already the case with 100-tonners because of the recent mobility nerf. A Dire Wolf, for instance, simply cannot survive an encounter with a semi-competent light pilot, and even a Mauler or a Stalker would have a lot of trouble fending off a light by itself (based on my personal experience of piloting lights against assaults since the last patch). So, you want all heavies and assaults to be in the Dire Wolf's shoes?

Edited by DGTLDaemon, 08 June 2017 - 06:21 AM.

[LowSubmarino]

A post skill tree buffed up cheetah is a vicious little monster.

Just vicious.

I do see lights almost every game as well.

And they are incredibly fun to play. Being able to choose when and where to fight, being able to actually disengage, being able to constantly provide intel for your team, to scout for spotters and flanks, to lie in an ambush for somebody who lazilly walks up to a disconnected team mate, relentlessly (every single game) hunting down heavies and assaults that are left alone and that have fallen behind the nascar train.....

God.

Its so much fun and I love to do it.

I love hunting down helpless victims.

It just makes me happy.

Who would ever even for one second not completly love that?

Light mechs are stronger than ever after the skill tree.

They rock.

[Weeny Machine]

oneda, on 08 June 2017 - 06:21 AM, said:

A post skill tree buffed up cheetah is a vicious little monster.

And again the ACH as an example. It is no 35t, therefore hardly touched by resizing, has excellent hit boxes, has ECM, can be equipped wiht ERML which have nearly twice the range of IS ML/MPL. Clearly it represents the class...*cough, cough*

DGTLDaemon, on 08 June 2017 - 06:20 AM, said:

And what do light pilots want? For heavies and assaults to be so slow and sluggish that they would be helpless against a light on their own? Which is, by the way, already the case with 100-tonners because of the recent mobility nerf. A Dire Wolf, for instance, simply cannot survive an encounter with a semi-competent light pilot, and even a Mauler or a Stalker would have a lot of trouble fending off a light by itself (based on my personal experience of piloting lights against assaults since the last patch). So, you want all heavies and assaults to be in the Dire Wolf's shoes?

Which is equally dumb and imbalanced. No one should be a free kill per se

[Elizander]

I've been learning how to play my vomit Adder lately with 2 LPL and 3 ERML and it's getting a little more fun. I have a boring clan setup of vomit adder, vomit scrow and vomit timber.

[Weeny Machine]

Elizander, on 08 June 2017 - 11:16 AM, said:

I've been learning how to play my vomit Adder lately with 2 LPL and 3 ERML and it's getting a little more fun. I have a boring clan setup of vomit adder, vomit scrow and vomit timber.

It will be interesting how the energy weapon change pans out. Especially since "vomit" builds and also lights are mostly affected by it. Let's wait and see. Personally I am looking forward to heavy machine guns

[Magnus Santini]

It is a lot of work to play a light mech. Like 300% more clicks! Also you are the errand boy for your team, gather this, capture that, go scout this, hold locks, keep that lonely enemy company. But to me it is always the one-shot, game over, that makes me regret taking one.

[Ruar]

Bush Hopper, on 07 June 2017 - 10:53 PM, said:

Yes, the agility and speed wasn't nerfed (if you invest in Mobility). However, a class which is all about speed and agility to survive got (in case of 35t mechs) its size enlarged to a degree where it is ridiculously easy to hit. The skill tree was a chance to make them worth to field again. Instead the same old problem exists: they cannot evade much damage from heavies and most assaults which make you feel quite fragile, especially when you have mostly T1-3 players in the match.

As for skirmishing etc.

1. Sniping - you are a second rate sniper at best. What you can do is done better by a fast medium

2. Skirmishing/Harassing/flanking - if you want to pack a punch and not sprinkle some damage over the enemy like a LRM boat then you need to load up many close range weapons simply because out of weight reasons. Which brings you near the fatties again.
My Wolfhound didn't take any damage, had invested ca. 20 points in Survival and still one alpha from an Atlas did take his arm off - my "mistake" was that I was flanking and I peeked in the wrong place where the enemy Atlas was idling. Had I not reacted immediately and turned, this alpha would have hit a torso.

Do not get me wrong. I can get matches like these, too (a screenie from yesterday). However, the effort I have to put in achieving such numbers is completely different than playing for example a heavy mech. This is simply not balanced.

I think the problem lies in the idea that lights are supposed to be doing the same amount of damage as mediums, heavies and assaults. And yes, I am fully aware that right now MWO basically only rewards damage and everything else is secondary.

However, the problem is the light mechs, it's the way MWO incentives people to play light mechs. Lights should almost never equal the damage of a heavy mech if all things in the match are equal. One reason is because lights should be hitting rear armor the majority of the time which means less total damage points before a mech is destroyed. Another reason is because mobility is a factor in and of itself. Lights have more mobility than any other mech and that is part of the reason why they should be giving up damage to compensate.

When doing damage is the only metric people begin to care about then their opinions of what makes a mech strong or weak also begins to change. PGI needs to give lights some more roles besides just damage. Scouting isn't hugely useful since we can see across the entirety of the maps in most cases. Target locks are nice but at some point lights are needed for that.

What if lights were the only ones who could put a priority target icon over a mech though? The light would get additional match score points for people attacking the priority target.

Lights could have a much faster targeting info boost so they see the damage ragdolls faster and provide that boost to everyone within 120m.


There are other ways where lights could be more about combat multipliers than just damage. A role they fill in the TT but is currently poorly translated to MWO.

As long as the only role of lights is to do damage then there will never be balance. Their speed and ability to do high damage in close means they will either be too strong or too weak. The only solution is for PGI to get a little bit creative and get away from the idea that damage is end all/be all. Until then I firmly believe that most light pilots underestimate the power of speed and mobility which makes them fail to see just how strong, OP even, the better light chassis can be.

[Bigbacon]

Skill tree doesnt help. Lots of lights are nerfed hard noweven if you try to max out certain things. Huugin is one that comes to mind.

Never see firestarters anymkre... They used to be the goto OP light

[Weeny Machine]

Ruar, on 08 June 2017 - 03:07 PM, said:

I think the problem lies in the idea that lights are supposed to be doing the same amount of damage as mediums, heavies and assaults. And yes, I am fully aware that right now MWO basically only rewards damage and everything else is secondary.

However, the problem is the light mechs, it's the way MWO incentives people to play light mechs. Lights should almost never equal the damage of a heavy mech if all things in the match are equal. One reason is because lights should be hitting rear armor the majority of the time which means less total damage points before a mech is destroyed. Another reason is because mobility is a factor in and of itself. Lights have more mobility than any other mech and that is part of the reason why they should be giving up damage to compensate.

When doing damage is the only metric people begin to care about then their opinions of what makes a mech strong or weak also begins to change. PGI needs to give lights some more roles besides just damage. Scouting isn't hugely useful since we can see across the entirety of the maps in most cases. Target locks are nice but at some point lights are needed for that.

What if lights were the only ones who could put a priority target icon over a mech though? The light would get additional match score points for people attacking the priority target.

Lights could have a much faster targeting info boost so they see the damage ragdolls faster and provide that boost to everyone within 120m.


There are other ways where lights could be more about combat multipliers than just damage. A role they fill in the TT but is currently poorly translated to MWO.

As long as the only role of lights is to do damage then there will never be balance. Their speed and ability to do high damage in close means they will either be too strong or too weak. The only solution is for PGI to get a little bit creative and get away from the idea that damage is end all/be all. Until then I firmly believe that most light pilots underestimate the power of speed and mobility which makes them fail to see just how strong, OP even, the better light chassis can be.

I agree with you. Personally I hoped for Info-Warfare (as you also implied). You know, light mechs getting a radar delay or are harder to detect while fielding superior sensors etc.

This would compensate the lower weight classes for their inherent drawbacks

[G4LV4TR0N]

Light mechs aren't bad, people who expect every light mech to be Arctic Cheetah are. And how this ain't issue:

Quote

Top 20 Clan Mechs used: ARCTIC CHEETAH ACH-PRIME 45,585

Edited by G4LV4TR0N, 09 June 2017 - 02:01 AM.

[Kubernetes]

ruar, I think you'll find that Lights do far less damage on average than heavies. Lights are not easy to pilot. 1000 dmg in an assault or heavy is child's play compared to doing it in a light. The people doing fantastic damage game in and game out are likely great pilots who would do the same or better in heavier mechs.

[Weeny Machine]

G4LV4TR0N, on 09 June 2017 - 01:59 AM, said:

Light mechs aren't bad, people who expect every light mech to be Arctic Cheetah are. And how this ain't issue:

[/size][/font]

Cool argumentation...

Too bad that you didn't refute any argument. And of course you used 1. the ACH in your post (*eyeroll*), 2. you implied that the ACH represents the class' overall performance...which is hilarious

Edited by Bush Hopper, 09 June 2017 - 02:17 AM.

[G4LV4TR0N]

You know, by BT standards Adder should destroy every Arctic Cheetah it meets because of massive firepower difference. Now lets see what happens in MWO...

[I was supposed to put a youtube link but I lost it and actually don't care that much. That was some flick when guy in ACH killed 3 brawling Adders one by one and it seemed they all were good players.]

Edited by G4LV4TR0N, 09 June 2017 - 02:38 AM.