126 replies to this topic

[Gwei Loong]

Bush Hopper, on 12 June 2017 - 07:54 AM, said:

As for ACH and Spider...umm...yeah, their hitboxes are excellent and they spread damage but having problems to hit them? Seriously?

However, I find it disturbing that you only mention the "too small" mechs. Why don't you mention the ones which are too large? Wolfhound, Panther etc are barn doors and considering the silly amount of alphas flying around they feel pretty fragile.Actually all 35t mechs are huge.

Seeing your stats you hardly play light mechs (zero this season, 11 matches last season). Maybe you should play them and see how fragile they really are - especially the ones which are not the Locust, Commando or ACH

You did not go far enough back when you looked at my stats. I played a lot of light mechs before they nerfed them all with the energy draw resale. So I agree that a few of them are also way too big but no one plays them anymore. My Fire Starters are just taking up space in my garage.
As far as this post is concerned am just going off what I have been seeing in game. I have seen a lot of rage over these issues lately. I have been in a lot of groups where I am one of the only people to even get a kill.
You have to understand that we are all being grouped together more and more these days in order to be able to find drops. Small advantages like hit registration and size exploits turn into big issues for some people.
I welcome PGI to not look at my stats but look at my groups and there overall performance in this seasons solo que. I am seeing more and more people with less map awareness that get into trouble. I am seeing more and more lower tier players on my teams and they are not able to deal with light mechs in their current state.
We cannot just think about ourselves here, this is a game based on group strategies. We have to think about everybody else or we are not playing as a team.
So let’s look at these groups that we are all having. I have a lot of time stamped screen shots and maybe posting them in community art is a good idea. The rage of MWO.
It's not about whether or not I can hit a light mech piloting a MAD IIC that still turns like a heavy, or whether or not I can deal with them even piloting a MaulerMX90. It is about whether or not Bob can while piloting his whatever. Sorry Bob I don’t know you and I don’t mean to single you out here but what I would like to suggest is that we start balancing the game in a way that works.

Edited by Gwei Loong, 12 June 2017 - 08:47 AM.

[Tordin]

Bush Hopper, on 12 June 2017 - 07:54 AM, said:

@OP: Some thoughts about your points...

No mech should be that small that hitreg, which is already wonky enough, totally goes down the drain. In case of locust and commando this seems to be the case. My favourite moment was when I put 3 X 4 MPLs into the CT of a locust beelining me. His CT was yellow. I bet the pilot laughed off his ***. Also, no mech should be able to render weapons imptent by just hugging the enemy

As for ACH and Spider...umm...yeah, their hitboxes are excellent and they spread damage but having problems to hit them? Seriously?

However, I find it disturbing that you only mention the "too small" mechs. Why don't you mention the ones which are too large? Wolfhound, Panther etc are barn doors and considering the silly amount of alphas flying around they feel pretty fragile.Actually all 35t mechs are huge.
You also don't mention that lights have next to zero chance to stay out of a firing arc for a noticeable time of a heavy mech and most assault mechs. But hey, it is their only advantage for which they give up armour, high alphas/dps, heat dissipation, structure etc.

Seeing your stats you hardly play light mechs (zero this season, 11 matches last season). Maybe you should play them and see how fragile they really are - especially the ones which are not the Locust, Commando or ACH

Wolfhound and Panthers are right sized, aka tall as they should be. They have great hitboxes and are tough. Wolfhounds especially. Not sure about the Firestarter, I imagine they should be somewhat taller than the Commando. Tallness isnt the problem, it could actually be benefical, wideness however. I bet its that many think the Firestarter is too wide, not exactly too tall.

[Curccu]

ArmageddonKnight, on 12 June 2017 - 07:37 AM, said:

I freely admit im biased, im an assault pilot, so naturaly in MWO i hate Light mechs.
The fact a light can so easily wreck an Assault has never and will never sit right with my 'common sense' notion of; "if a speed boat with a machine gun cant take out a destoryer IRL, how the fk can you justify a light mech taking out an assault mech in 'Sim' type game". A gang of lights yes, but all to often you see and are victim of a single light that just ruins your day ..becouse PGI.

Because you silly lets say your speedboat weight 2-3 tons vs destroyer weights ~4000-5000 tons...
not same as 20-35 ton light mech vs 80-100 ton assault mech.

[Sha Shou]

OP, I'm primarily a light pilot and one thing I've noticed after the ST, assaults are in general less maneuverable in torso twisting and thus less able to track lights.

I assume that's because some assault pilots may not be investing enough SP into the mobility tree to make sure that they have at least the same maneuverability as pre-ST. I suspect light pilots, on the other hand, are making sure their mobility tree is well invested as they need the mobility.

Bad light pilots still die at the beginning of the match but good mech pilots will perform better if assaults are lazy to maintain their mobility through SP investment.

The sweeping generalisation you are making to penalise an entire mech class based on "rage" anecdotes and circumstantial mech size cut outs from BTech lore will only further the under usage of the least popular mech class.

Not that I think PGI will implement your suggestion anyway.

Oh BTW, I usually spectate Assault mechs and you'd be surprised at how many can't shoot for **** and then blame their lack on skill on the unkillable light.

Edited by Sha Shou, 12 June 2017 - 08:52 AM.

[nehebkau]

@ OP

I NEVER have a problem shooting out the CT on a locust. Of course that's because the very FIRST thing I do is aim for the legs. The only problem with the lights you mention is that the majority of Mechwarriors are too stupid (yes i am being mean) to remember that you shoot the legs FIRST!

Why legs?
1. Only 2 hit boxes (one for each leg)
2. They are very big hitboxes, they go all the way up
3. You won't friendly fire anyone if you miss.
4. You get the satisfaction of knowing that the other pilot has a few seconds to contemplate how dead they are when the leg comes off.

So, stop being stupid and remember the rule, which has been around since, well, forever:

"SHOOT LIGHTS IN THE LEG!"

Edited by nehebkau, 12 June 2017 - 08:37 AM.

[Zigmund Freud]

Curccu, on 12 June 2017 - 08:30 AM, said:

Because you silly lets say your speedboat weight 2-3 tons vs destroyer weights ~4000-5000 tons...
not same as 20-35 ton light mech vs 80-100 ton assault mech.

Not to mention it's silly to apply somewhat real life logic to big stompy robots game. Like why do we even walk? Imagine replacing battlemaster's lower body with something like, hmm, tracks? And than replacing upper body with tunk-like turret. Low profile, same 60 kmph mobility, highly (even higher!) mounted weapons, etc.

[G4LV4TR0N]

It's not light mechs, it's that assault mechs are too big and too easy to hit. Especially their gigantic hitboxes that can be hit from any distance at any angle, well almost.

Edited by G4LV4TR0N, 12 June 2017 - 08:49 AM.

[Gwei Loong]

G4LV4TR0N, on 12 June 2017 - 08:47 AM, said:

It's not light mechs, it's that assault mechs are too big and too easy to hit. Especially their gigantic hitboxes that can be hit from any distance at any angle, well almost.

Sure but if it is size that's effecting the hit registration then we can not shrink assault mechs. So this means the only solution is to make everything bigger. Bigger is Better in MWO.

[JediPanther]

Gwei Loong, on 12 June 2017 - 06:15 AM, said:

The Locust, Commando, Artic Cheetah and Spider seem to be giving a lot of players some trouble.

They are also the only lights not the size of 65 ton mechs. They don't all have massive ct hit boxes,****** engine caps, forced heat sinks as bad as the locust which in case you've never used one requires 3 mandatory heat sinks with max xl engine. Try a smaller engine and you need MORE heat sinks. It only has SEVEN tons total for weapons,bap and ammo which means you have very limited weapon choices.

As for the spider you ever try that pos 5V? Are two center torso lasers really that scary with a mere 10-16 alpha? Lets just make every single light in the game the size of the Atlas. Never mind the Clans must use the ach as it is the only clan light that can match locust and commando speeds. The rest only go 97kph by default.

Threads like this always prove the person making them has no dam idea how hard it is to be a light mech pilot.

[Mystere]

ArmageddonKnight, on 12 June 2017 - 07:37 AM, said:

And the firepower they do carry, is plenty when all they do is run behind you and shoot u in the back.

Here's a public service announcement to all you fattie lovers out there:

Put armor on your backs!

Don't say you have not been advised.

[Mister Blastman]

Right. Let's make those lights nice and fat so they can be bullied into uselessnes! Yeah!



No, OP. No.

Edited by Mister Blastman, 12 June 2017 - 08:58 AM.

[Weeny Machine]

Zuri Prime, on 12 June 2017 - 08:03 AM, said:

The spider and arctic cheeto are both fine; locust, commando and javelin hit registration seems to be a little bit off but mostly the commando has the biggest problem with that.

Lights are mostly fine, and some of them need to be slightly smaller. If you're having problems with light mechs or fast movers ask for your team to help escort you, and know how to turn in an assault to counter a light mech, or even practice in a 1v1 with someone to help you improve.

This plus...if all fails: parking your bum at an obstacle usually helps a lot. If a light is then stupid enough to attack...

[JediPanther]

Bush Hopper, on 12 June 2017 - 08:59 AM, said:

This plus...if all fails: parking your bum at an obstacle usually helps a lot. If a light is then stupid enough to attack...

When an assault does exactly that or immediately starts backing up in reverse to the direction my light is going is a good indicator that assault has some experience with killing lights. That's when the smart(hopefully) light pilot runs off to find a new target or attack angle.

[Weeny Machine]

Gwei Loong, on 12 June 2017 - 08:26 AM, said:

I am seeing more and more lower tier players on my teams and they are not able to deal with light mechs in their current state.

And exactly with this sentence Ihave to disagree totally. Not "light mechs" are the problem. Most are, as I already said, too big and too easy to destroy like the 35t mechs. Some others are mediocre at best. When you utter that sentence and also about hitreg, you are referring to the locust and commando when it comes to being too tiny.

As others also said: the rest is fine. However, I am not quite sure about the hitreg of the Javelin.

Nevertheless there are so many ways of screwing a light mech, it is not even funny.
1. Grouping up
2. Streaks litereally hardcounter the whole class
3. Learning to move backwards, sometimes counterclockwise and the light is again in your firing arc etc
4. Parking your bum behind an obstacle
5. LRMs to some degree
6. Aiming for the legs
7. Use pin point damag weapons or pulse lasers - I can tell you, it feels great when 2 AC/20s home in onto a locust and BAMM

Especially no.6 should be heeded by newbs and they should learn it. It is also great for clan mechs.

Edited by Bush Hopper, 12 June 2017 - 09:19 AM.

[Roughneck45]

Nope.

Get better aim, better ping, or better situational awareness.

[Humpday]

Murphy7, on 12 June 2017 - 07:24 AM, said:

Collision damage needs to go way up, perhaps with a 30 second "collisions are free" timer for the start of a match and that usual traffic jam.

Yes please, heck just give me 15 seconds to get away from everyone!! Jeez every match man, between the drop itself and people banging into you, you start the game already damaged...minuscule, but still.

[Humpday]

I've never had an issue with lights in my Mauler, even alone I can 1v1 a locust. But more likely the reason is that I don't leave the group, so support fire is always very close.

They are harder to kill with lasers though than ac20s or lbx's srms are good for blowing the legs away but hard to land hits. I can usually nail a light running full bore across my screen with an ac20 shell, probably my most favorite thing to do, unless I wiff too much, then I lose interest.

[G4LV4TR0N]

Murphy7, on 12 June 2017 - 07:24 AM, said:

It should not be so free and easy for a Locust to park itself in an enemy mech's crotch and fire merrily away while the enemy mech has no recourse. Collision damage needs to go way up, perhaps with a 30 second "collisions are free" timer for the start of a match and that usual traffic jam.

It should be ramming not collision damage. And mechs should get ramming quirks and skill nodes.

Quote

Sure but if it is size that's effecting the hit registration then we can not shrink assault mechs. So this means the only solution is to make everything bigger. Bigger is Better in MWO.

Take a look, in game assault mechs are already much bigger than BT ones. Rather than making everything bigger, everything should get smaller. Total armor could be reduced to compensate. Perhaps some hitboxes on bigger mechs could be redrawn, or even more hitbox types could be added.

Edited by G4LV4TR0N, 12 June 2017 - 09:27 AM.

[Grus]

Mister Glitchdragon, on 12 June 2017 - 08:13 AM, said:

Finally, since there is no knock-down and apparently never will be, lights are free to jam themselves into your assault's shins at over 100 kph without repercussion..

that mechanic was in back in closed beta and was wonderful. Valid tactic was to antisapate where the light mech was coming around and ram him to knock him over and then leg him. Now we have to just cal up into a wall to keep them from getting behind you, anf I hope you have arm mounted weapons because you can't aim down far enpugh with torso high mounts to hit the locus litterly in your crotch (Kodiak as reference)

[Jay Leon Hart]

Grus, on 12 June 2017 - 09:26 AM, said:

that mechanic was in back in closed beta and was wonderful. Valid tactic was to antisapate where the light mech was coming around and ram him to knock him over and then leg him. Now we have to just cal up into a wall to keep them from getting behind you, anf I hope you have arm mounted weapons because you can't aim down far enpugh with torso high mounts to hit the locus litterly in your crotch (Kodiak as reference)

Or, put weapons in your arms? Crazy idea, I know...