212 replies to this topic

[Gyrok]

FupDup, on 16 June 2017 - 06:26 PM, said:

IS SL: Tiny buff that won't change anything.

IS SPL: Nerf/buff that probably is a net nerf. Why?

CERSL: Nerfed, but possibly now superior to the CSPL because it does more damage (5 vs 4) for half the tonnage.

CSPL: Nerf/Buff, significant net nerf overall (because 50% damage loss is kind of important and stuff).

IS ML: Buffed, but I still don't know why they don't just go straight down to 3 heat instead of 3.4.

IS MPL: Buffed a bit.

CERML: Nerfed.

CMPL: Nerf/Buff, maybe overall buff because heat.

IS LL: Nerf/Buff, slight net nerf. Seriously, WHY?

IS ERLL: Buffed.

IS LPL: Nerfed (that tiny cooldown "buff" does nothing).

CERLL: Buffed.

CLPL: Buff/Nerf, net nerf but not by that much of a margin.

CERPPC: Nerfed, but not enough to actually notice for the most part.

LRM5: Nerfed. Why did these get nerfed again? Giving them LRM10 spread was more than enough to smack them into the ground. This is just overkill.

AMS: Buffed. Probably because of all the LRM complaints.


I'm not sure whose bright idea it was to nerf the IS SPL and IS LL.

Also, I was definitely right that PGI would try their "pulse as DPS" idea from the Energy Draw PTS. And just like the ED PTS, PGI's idea of a "DPS Pulse Laser" is slightly reducing their damage and slightly buffing their reload time for an overall very underwhelming change that doesn't actually make them into true DPS weapons while making them worse at burst damage (alpha strike).

The conclusion that I take away from this is that the new "Balance Underling" is not going to change the grand scheme of balance in the way that some of us had hoped. I'm not enthusiastic about what the future holds with him. I guess he's not as bad as the old Balance Overlord's habit of nuking things into the ground, but he still leaves much to be desired.

I think I am done for good now...I mean really.

This was nuclear in proportion.

A more detailed break down is in order I think:

The small lasers only get better HPS because their duration and cooldown were nerfed. I mean, FFS, OF COURSE they generate less heat now...that is not a "buff", that is a side effect of a direct nerf.

ER Medium lasers with a burn duration of 1.25??? LOL...I mean...surely there is a typo in there somewhere...they cannot be serious. CMPL duration went up? Up??? FFS, the isLPL burns for same time as our SPL...where the hell is the sense in that?

Large laser changes are kind of not changes...really...just generic nerfs across the board.

The biggest issues I have are the following:

1.) IS are STILL firing 3 LL at once, while clans are not...and now clan LLs do less damage...I mean...WTF?

2.) Clan fall off is still fukt, and IS ER lasers are coming...they talk about "superior range", but I sure would like to ***** see it again some day...

3.) CERPPCs will now do more splash damage than pinpoint??? REALLY??? WTF???

So, just out of curiosity...anyone else wondering WTF it is clans are supposed to use? At this point, no one will be happy until all the mechs start missing a ***** ST to start the damn match.

I...I don't even...

[Andi Nagasia]

Mcgral18, on 16 June 2017 - 08:22 PM, said:

Looking at the values again...does the isSPL REALLY have WORSE values in every sense than the cSPL?
Why

Why, PGI, why?
(Dam/tick is marginally greater at 0.667 VS 0.7, for less damage and less range and worse Dam/heat and worse Dam/ton and worse overall)

If they had 2 damage and a 1 second cooldown...that would probably be too much
But, they may have a lower cooldown and be better choices for Knife Fighter

perhaps they are also changing some of the range, but didnt state it?

[The6thMessenger]

TravelingMaster, on 16 June 2017 - 09:56 PM, said:

Agreed. The D variant is the only variant I have (bought it as a noob, should've gotten a different variant), and this mobility nerf irritates me. It's already slower than the other variants due to lower max engine, and its hardpoint setup basically makes you field big-*** ballistics (Gauss Rifle or 20's). I just got finished setting up a dual-LB20 build on my MAD-IIC-D, and now I'm probably gonna have to figure something else out because the thing's gonna handle like a Kodiak or something. Can't even gauss-snipe properly with the thing, because of the low-slung arms.

Yeah, the D seemed to be the dummy of the entire chassis for me for the same reason.

I tried MAD-IIC-D Fire Support - 2x UAC10 [300] + 2x LRM15 [900] + 2x ERML, 15 DHS, ECM though, and it's kind of okay.

El Bandito, on 16 June 2017 - 08:11 PM, said:

Yeah, seems like they tried to emulate MW4 Pulse laser mechanic, although did so half-heartedly.

I don't see a heart, just an ***.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 16 June 2017 - 10:07 PM.

[AssaultPig]

aw goodbye enforcer 4R, it was fun

[poltergoost]

Yep, my Jenner IIC-A is history. I can't see how it can be viable with 'DPS' lasers. The increased facetime with such a chunky sized torso will just lead to a quick death.

It does seem strange that they are rebalancing mechs AND making such radical weapon changes at exactly the same time. The effects of these weapon changes on some chassis are going to be huge. Certainly the Jenner IIC-A has been nerfed hard by this.

Edited by poltergoost, 16 June 2017 - 10:34 PM.

[Kubernetes]

cSL and cSL were likely nerfed because of platforms like the Nova. Too bad that it really ends up hurting Lights.

[FireStoat]

I purchased the Marauder IIC basic pack and hero intentionally instead of getting Kodiaks as a new player back in November because of nostalgia, but also because I preferred the agility / movement profile of an 85 ton mech over a 100 ton mech.

Well. For other players like myself that enjoyed the MAD IIC for its fusion of mobility and firepower (and the mobility got nerfed recently to Stalker level) but favored mobility more, that part just got kicked into 100 Ton performance regardless of what our preferences were.

This honest to god feels like a bait and switch. Seriously, look at the new values. I've rarely seen a game company take such measures for a purchased product.

Edit - I guess you could say that my purchase was for the enjoyment of the chassis up until the time of repeated nerfing, and that I got my value from what I paid from my play time. There is some merit to that argument. But to anyone that opened their wallet for either the Kodiak or the MAD IIC have been repeatedly given a message from PGI to never open their wallet again.

Edited by FireStoat, 16 June 2017 - 11:18 PM.

[vibrant]

FireStoat, on 16 June 2017 - 11:16 PM, said:

Edit - I guess you could say that my purchase was for the enjoyment of the chassis up until the time of repeated nerfing, and that I got my value from what I paid from my play time. There is some merit to that argument. But to anyone that opened their wallet for either the Kodiak or the MAD IIC have been repeatedly given a message from PGI to never open their wallet again.

Yeah. The last mechpack I bought was the Kodiaks, and though my income's been... gone... the past year or so, I decided to splurge on the Spirit Bear because I love to brawl. Wow, with the nerfs to all of them, and in particular the Spirit Bear, I feel like I've been kicked in the balls. The SB is absolutely dead, and no fun at all to play. I can't see myself spending money on this game again, which is actually really sad since I love the game itself. This management of it though... is beyond awful.

[Kasumi Sumika]

RIP Laser Vomit.

[R Valentine]

Pretty much have to dump all cERML builds for cLPL builds now. Builds that mixed the two are 100% wrecked. CDs are massively different, cLPL duration went down while cERLM went up. cERLM took a pretty extreme nerf. 1.25 is ridiculous. 1.25 is what cERLL should be. ISLL took a face wrecking because reasons. A duration increase, really? Why? They're barely used as is. Now ERLL is straight superior. May as well not take them at all. Just find room for the heat sinks. IS SPL nerf because reasons. Again, given that they were lackluster to begin with and only used on one mech(Locust), why nerf them? cSPL was straight broken, so that one I can see, but IS SPL? IS SL buffs are 100% inconsequential. You essentially didn't touch them. They will still remain garbage. IS ERPPC was 100% untouched and another weapon that almost never gets used. Why don't you buff it? cERPPC nerf more or less unnoticeable. Overall, I don't think balanced actually went anywhere, only meta guns got shifted around a bit. cLPL and cMPL now way better than cERLM. cERLL barely buffed, might be usable, probably not though. Still needs to be shorter given that you buffed IS ERLL pretty well. They were already good.

[Trollfeed]

Don't know if this was intentional but it's quite a nerf to energy strikers. I don't really see how energy brawling Ice Ferrets have been so prevalent that they need to drop their alpha by 1/3.

[UnofficialOperator]

FireStoat, on 16 June 2017 - 11:16 PM, said:

I purchased the Marauder IIC basic pack and hero intentionally instead of getting Kodiaks as a new player back in November because of nostalgia, but also because I preferred the agility / movement profile of an 85 ton mech over a 100 ton mech.

Well. For other players like myself that enjoyed the MAD IIC for its fusion of mobility and firepower (and the mobility got nerfed recently to Stalker level) but favored mobility more, that part just got kicked into 100 Ton performance regardless of what our preferences were.

This honest to god feels like a bait and switch. Seriously, look at the new values. I've rarely seen a game company take such measures for a purchased product.

Edit - I guess you could say that my purchase was for the enjoyment of the chassis up until the time of repeated nerfing, and that I got my value from what I paid from my play time. There is some merit to that argument. But to anyone that opened their wallet for either the Kodiak or the MAD IIC have been repeatedly given a message from PGI to never open their wallet again.

vibrant, on 16 June 2017 - 11:29 PM, said:

Yeah. The last mechpack I bought was the Kodiaks, and though my income's been... gone... the past year or so, I decided to splurge on the Spirit Bear because I love to brawl. Wow, with the nerfs to all of them, and in particular the Spirit Bear, I feel like I've been kicked in the balls. The SB is absolutely dead, and no fun at all to play. I can't see myself spending money on this game again, which is actually really sad since I love the game itself. This management of it though... is beyond awful.

Once the latest mech on the block is available for cbills, its gets nerfed. This has been pretty much the SOP/modus operandi for the past year.

[Fox With A Shotgun]

The only thing I'm going to say is this. While the C-SPL nerfs were warranted, the other nerfs to the small laser line were completely and utterly unwarranted. Where is the reward for the risk of bringing such short-ranged weapons in an age where maps grow bigger, have less cover and people fling around 50+ hitscan alphas at long range? If there is any, I'm not seeing it. Machineguns are essentially worthless as a primary weapon. Large class weapons are too hot for lights. Even medium ones run quite toasty. Smalls are pretty much the only viable energy option for true lights (not second-line skirmishers like KFX, ADR or the LL/ERLL RVNs), and they want that gone too, it seems.

Lights. You've been stepped on too many times. You've been too quiet about it. Backstabbing light mechs were an endangered species post-skill tree; now, I think they might actually be extinct in the wild.

It's time to rise up against your fatmech oppressors and reclaim your means of point production! Light mech pilots of the world, unite and beat back these lazy, undeserving dezgra freebirths!

[Deathlike]

The only reason duration nerfs exist is because of the skill tree.

If you don't get the duration nodes when you are using lasers, prepared to get rekt.

Sucks even more if you are using a Trial Mech. Congrats at improving the non-existent NPE PGI!

[El Bandito]

Mister Blastman, on 16 June 2017 - 09:03 PM, said:

You can't balance a class of weapons based on a 'mech class. This nerf hurts larger robots far more than lights, especially already mediocre ones such as the Gargoyle and Executioner.

Lights were bad enough. Now they'll be even worse.

Nonsense changes.

But weight classes have to be taken into account, cause MWO includes GQ tonnage limits. Buff Lights too much by making Small class lasers do more DPS than Medium class lasers, and large groups would run even more wild.

[Y E O N N E]

Deathlike, on 16 June 2017 - 11:45 PM, said:

The only reason duration nerfs exist is because of the skill tree.

If you don't get the duration nodes when you are using lasers, prepared to get rekt.

Sucks even more if you are using a Trial Mech. Congrats at improving the non-existent NPE PGI!

I always said allowing us to adjust laser duration in the skill tree was a horrible idea...

[El Bandito]

poltergoost, on 16 June 2017 - 10:32 PM, said:

Yep, my Jenner IIC-A is history. I can't see how it can be viable with 'DPS' lasers. The increased facetime with such a chunky sized torso will just lead to a quick death.

It does seem strange that they are rebalancing mechs AND making such radical weapon changes at exactly the same time. The effects of these weapon changes on some chassis are going to be huge. Certainly the Jenner IIC-A has been nerfed hard by this.

Maybe. I have good success with 4xCMPL Jenny-IIC-A/2, and that build is not affected--slightly buffed, in fact.

[R Valentine]

Yeonne Greene, on 16 June 2017 - 11:56 PM, said:

I always said allowing us to adjust laser duration in the skill tree was a horrible idea...

They did the exact same thing with UAC jam chance. Steal 5% from all quirks, force to recoup via skill tree. Lasers, same way. Steal duration from base values, force to recoup via skill tree. Why they increased IS LL duration and cMPL duration is beyond me. Or why they increased cERML so obnoxiously.

[Aggravated Assault Mech]

My autocannons are ready.

[poltergoost]

El Bandito, on 16 June 2017 - 11:59 PM, said:

Maybe. I have good success with 4xCMPL Jenny-IIC-A/2, and that build is not affected--slightly buffed, in fact.

Well, I like to get up close and personal with my Jenner IIC-A and use maximum mobility in a dogfight. Hit-and-run.

That playstyle is down the toilet now

At least my second favourite, the PXH got a buff to the MLs. But my days of playing lights are definitely over now.

Edited by poltergoost, 17 June 2017 - 12:19 AM.