211 replies to this topic

[NocturnalBeast]

RAM, on 27 June 2017 - 06:20 AM, said:

Not to mention the entire Multiplayer Battletech series


RAM
ELH

I could have sworn that MW4 had PVP, but maybe I am not remembering correctly.

[MovinTarget]

Ed Steele, on 27 June 2017 - 08:01 AM, said:

I could have sworn that MW4 had PVP, but maybe I am not remembering correctly.

Yes you could do pvp in MW4, but:

They were for fun, no "rewards"

Relied on an external, now defunct gaming hub to find servers and matches. There might be some privately hosted servers still, but since you could DoS people's games if they announced the IP... dunno how many still do.

I would *LOVE* an MW:O NHUA (no heat, unlimited ammo) mode, just for the lulz...

[Shino Tenshi]

Aramuside, on 27 June 2017 - 12:33 AM, said:

You're using a text based game as a comparison to a first person shooter?

Yes, I am, especially since many of them, IMHO opinion (and I'd be very surprised if not the opinion of anyone who spent any time on them) they created a much richer FW experience than what we have here. I really doubt it's even possible (or realistic) to expect MWO to get anywhere close to the detail/depth provided by the old MUX realspace environments, but I strongly feel they could take away some really good points from them to build towards an end goal for FW here.

I'm guessing by your question that you've never played on a MUX before?

[Gazbeard]

Alienized, on 24 June 2017 - 02:09 AM, said:

how does PGI even expect that people stay calm when they have to drop with complete useless t5 players all time.
i dont even care how bad a MM is but its better than playing as it is now.
this is sickening as fk and im tired of it.

Remember that you too were once tier 5, that everyone has to learn, and that a F2P game like MWO relies on regular new (tier 5) players to keep growing. Players such as yourself that alienate them will cause a percentage to leave the game due to your toxicity and prejudice. Perhaps PGI should put restrictions on accounts of players like you forcing you to play only with tier 5's teaching them to "git gud" ... or would you just prefer to be outright banned for failing to promote tolerant attitude towards other players?

IMO you are part of the problem, not part of the solution. Toxicity and prejudice such as you display are one reason why MWO has such a bad reputation in terms of welcoming new players.

[Alienized]

Gazbeard, on 27 June 2017 - 09:12 AM, said:

Remember that you too were once tier 5, that everyone has to learn, and that a F2P game like MWO relies on regular new (tier 5) players to keep growing. Players such as yourself that alienate them will cause a percentage to leave the game due to your toxicity and prejudice. Perhaps PGI should put restrictions on accounts of players like you forcing you to play only with tier 5's teaching them to "git gud" ... or would you just prefer to be outright banned for failing to promote tolerant attitude towards other players?

IMO you are part of the problem, not part of the solution. Toxicity and prejudice such as you display are one reason why MWO has such a bad reputation in terms of welcoming new players.

i surely been t5 as everyone was but i tell you, i havent been as bad as so many people that are with me in t1 even when i started. why is that?
because i made some thoughts about how things work.

i am in no way toxic from start but i can be pushed into it and thats not me to blame. its how alot of players act towards someone that actively tries to tell them how to imrpove and gets ******* on every time by ignorant comments on how much better they are while they barely break 300 dmg.

i am brutally honest tho when it comes to say things no one wants to hear. without beeing toxic but hell, so many ppl get butthurt over the slightest things and call it toxic already which is pure bs. if you cant take a pun or two and some marky words then what r u doin on the internet.
you wont see me reporting or crying about puns i get to PGI as so many do. man up and take it like one.

you come up with the git gud thing as all ppl do that are unwilling to take a hint or two in how to improve. its not about git gud. i have lots of space myself to git gud BUT i dont troll people that are trying to help me improving my game.
im not arguing with people that are obviously better than i am with stupid comments all over the place.
but i get MAD (not toxic) when people deliberatly play complete SH+T in a tier where they should not be and that is purely PGI's fault and this incredibly fail EXP bar they call tier.

if you think that its toxic what i wrote here, then damn son, you really cant take any truth.
you know what happens when i play like a damn noob and get called out for it? i apologize and suck it up.
its not like you arent grown up and have to be offended by every little word that is thrown to you.

and let me get this straight: i help new players more than most people do, in game and per chat. its up to the players themselves to take the advice or cry about someone saying he done something wrong and how to fix it. thats what i usually do.

sadly, too many players cry about it and cant even take a discussion, they rather disconnect instantly after one sentence because they know they lose the argument.

so dont call me toxic because i am not. i am totally frustrated with the playerbase and i wont hold that back because all those players do is blame PGI for what they do without recognizing how much better they could do themselves.

[Gazbeard]

Alienized, on 27 June 2017 - 09:36 AM, said:

i surely been t5 as everyone was but i tell you, i havent been as bad as so many people that are with me in t1 even when i started. why is that?
because i made some thoughts about how things work.

i am in no way toxic from start but i can be pushed into it and thats not me to blame. its how alot of players act towards someone that actively tries to tell them how to imrpove and gets ******* on every time by ignorant comments on how much better they are while they barely break 300 dmg.

i am brutally honest tho when it comes to say things no one wants to hear. without beeing toxic but hell, so many ppl get butthurt over the slightest things and call it toxic already which is pure bs. if you cant take a pun or two and some marky words then what r u doin on the internet.
you wont see me reporting or crying about puns i get to PGI as so many do. man up and take it like one.

you come up with the git gud thing as all ppl do that are unwilling to take a hint or two in how to improve. its not about git gud. i have lots of space myself to git gud BUT i dont troll people that are trying to help me improving my game.
im not arguing with people that are obviously better than i am with stupid comments all over the place.
but i get MAD (not toxic) when people deliberatly play complete SH+T in a tier where they should not be and that is purely PGI's fault and this incredibly fail EXP bar they call tier.

if you think that its toxic what i wrote here, then damn son, you really cant take any truth.
you know what happens when i play like a damn noob and get called out for it? i apologize and suck it up.
its not like you arent grown up and have to be offended by every little word that is thrown to you.

and let me get this straight: i help new players more than most people do, in game and per chat. its up to the players themselves to take the advice or cry about someone saying he done something wrong and how to fix it. thats what i usually do.

sadly, too many players cry about it and cant even take a discussion, they rather disconnect instantly after one sentence because they know they lose the argument.

so dont call me toxic because i am not. i am totally frustrated with the playerbase and i wont hold that back because all those players do is blame PGI for what they do without recognizing how much better they could do themselves.

A lot of typing to basically admit "yeah, I get salty and toxic when people don't do what I tell them to do".

Well, here's the truth for you - you don't own the game. You are not the drill Sergeant at a military training camp. You are not the birth parent of all that play MWO.

If you bark and shout and get salty at strangers for knowing less than you do, do not be surprised if they immediately tell you to "**** orf". Try being more congenial and encouraging than dictatorial and critical. Ask for help to flank/push/whatever, rather than demand that help. Most people will respond positively to REQUESTS for help, just as many will ignore or go against DEMANDS to do something.

Remember too the wide range of age variance of the player base and the different attitudes that causes. Remember too that some people get mouthy when drunk and (in my experience) far too many people play this team-based game for ***** & giggles while drunk or stoned with the intent to mess with other people's enjoyment of the game - don't blame every player for that.

Try seeking out like-minded players and team up with them, or join their unit. You'll find the game much more enjoyable just for doing that.

But ... yes, I agree, that the matchmaker is totally FUBAR and the most important balance change that is needed is for that to be fixed, followed by a marketing drive to bring ex-players back to the game, which in turn should then be followed by a marketing drive to bring in fresh blood in order that the "new" matchmaker can be proven to work.

[Alienized]

Gazbeard, on 27 June 2017 - 10:07 AM, said:

A lot of typing to basically admit "yeah, I get salty and toxic when people don't do what I tell them to do".

Well, here's the truth for you - you don't own the game. You are not the drill Sergeant at a military training camp. You are not the birth parent of all that play MWO.

If you bark and shout and get salty at strangers for knowing less than you do, do not be surprised if they immediately tell you to "**** orf". Try being more congenial and encouraging than dictatorial and critical. Ask for help to flank/push/whatever, rather than demand that help. Most people will respond positively to REQUESTS for help, just as many will ignore or go against DEMANDS to do something.

Remember too the wide range of age variance of the player base and the different attitudes that causes. Remember too that some people get mouthy when drunk and (in my experience) far too many people play this team-based game for ***** & giggles while drunk or stoned with the intent to mess with other people's enjoyment of the game - don't blame every player for that.

Try seeking out like-minded players and team up with them, or join their unit. You'll find the game much more enjoyable just for doing that.

But ... yes, I agree, that the matchmaker is totally FUBAR and the most important balance change that is needed is for that to be fixed, followed by a marketing drive to bring ex-players back to the game, which in turn should then be followed by a marketing drive to bring in fresh blood in order that the "new" matchmaker can be proven to work.

dude you are getting this thing totally wrong again.

i aint even *barking* or am *salty* at strangers in the first place. those are assumptions you do based on nothing else than me saying that i get angry and frustrated *over time*, not overall. so dont make false assumptions ever again.

i do give commands and orders when i am left alone AGAIN at the frontline pushing. stuff like that but am i barking at them? hell no. by just asking for some damn firecover i already get sh*t thrown at me. this is the line you dont get.
i have all right to be pissed about such players especially when they OBVIOUSLY play the game for a long time and should know better themselves already.

throw sh*t at me for no reason and you get it back immediatly.
its that easy and wont give you any reason to report to PGI and no player should be banned for spouting some rants that are well deserved. a rant that is not toxic i want to state.

i do have like-minded players but you know what? they feel EXACTLY the same and its not even a small pack that gets driven away from the game because of what i described.
too many already stopped playing because
A: the players themselves
B: PGI cant get their MM/tier stuff right.

[MovinTarget]

You can usually tell in the first minute how the match will go when you PUG drop... the only X-Factor at that point is if the opposition is more or less organized.

I have won games with teams i didn't expect to win and lost when I didn't expect to lose. Every PUG drop is an adventure and the less you focus on W/L and more on just ridin' them tasty PUG waves, the happier you will be.

Edited by MovinTarget, 27 June 2017 - 05:15 PM.

[Meldric Ward]

In many games I play it is that one player that is running ALONE to the frontline and shouting for support at first contact with the enemy who makes a team be stomped. He will die alone there at the front, shouting for help and then immediatly start crying after he died...
and then the rest (who is running in all different directions and in circles anyways) is killed by overwhelming numbers for every single little pocket the enemy finds them... So maybe it is not always the best thing to push alone and put the blame on the rest. Although I agree that it is in 99% of the cases very valid to blame the team, because most people do not know what the minimap is, let alone using it.

Edited by Meldric Ward, 27 June 2017 - 11:35 PM.

[Alienized]

Meldric Ward, on 27 June 2017 - 11:14 PM, said:

In many games I play it is that one player that is running ALONE to the frontline and shouting for support at first contact with the enemy who makes a team be stomped. He will die alone there at the front, shouting for help and then immediatly start crying after he died...
and then the rest (who is running in all different directions and in circles anyways) is killed by overwhelming numbers for every single little pocket the enemy finds them... So maybe it is not always the best thing to push alone and put the blame on the rest. Although I agree that it is in 99% of the cases very valid to blame the team, because most people do not know what the minimap is, let alone using it.

in many other games its also that you have no specific advantage on certain map points.
in fact it doesnt even matter who it is, if you see one guy taking a good spot on the map, you kinda support it and dont run away.
in this game it can be game changing to hold a spot on the map. too many players dont care about such things and it shows.
if i see a mech alone up front i make sure he doesnt die or if he does im going to take advantage of others shooting him by engaging the enemy mechs.

thats what teamplay is about. you dont let someone die just becuase he might have done a mistake, you go out and support him. if you hide, sit back and do nothing, he will just die with zero impact. thats an automatic one down for ya and most likely a loss.

most of the time, the guy that pushes risks his own stats for winning the game. its up to the guys behind him to follow it or as you nailed it, run away in all directions.
whats even worse is if the guy pushing and dying first has more damage done than most of the team. thats unacceptable and a legit reason to complain. guess how many times that actually happens to me since im always up front pushing and agressively hold the enemy back until my team finally does *something*.
can go wrong, can go well. its all about the people shooting the mechs that shoot me.
it can be that easy.

[Aramuside]

Alienized, on 27 June 2017 - 12:40 AM, said:

not even i belong into tier 1 but having 75% of the teams filled with t4 like players aint fun. it just aint.
we know by now that there is no MM left for solo queue as well but as it is now, it feels unplayable.

you somehow should expect more than beeing the only guy breaking 300dmg once you reach a high tier. thats what it was implemented right? what i seen this weekend was cringeworthy totally rage-able for most of the time.

i had to carry like half my damn teams to even have a chance to win. this aint fun. it aint fun to see people playing so bad you have to throw at times. everyone can have a bad game and so do i but damn, i seen the same players over and over struggling to even get 200 damage. now how can a player like this reach t3 and with that playing with t1?

the sad thing is tho, you give em advices how to get better, you tell them to move up and support you.
all you get thrown back is *oh u so salty* or *you dont tell me how to play*

and then those guys reach 88 dmg living 4 times longer than i did while i got one of the higher damages of the whole game.

its the pure butthurtness from so many players getting told what they do wrong or what they should do is making me mad.
every single advice you give in game ends but in a butthurt player that cant break a proper dmg or match score.

In fairness I do understand. Not sure we should have an event where 6 people on the team are desperately trying NOT to kill anything as its at best frustrating at worst stupid.

I'm equally at fault though as I had a single match a couple of nights ago in the light assist element where I was also trying not to kill anyone at all. Suddenly realised I was all alone fighting three mostly untouched lights in my Death Knell and with my entire team dead. Just two of their side was dead including a Night Gyr I and a Jenner had killed. Afterwards someone asked why I didn't use my 2 coolshots in that last fight and I had to be honest and just say I looked at the state of their obviously beefed up armour from the damage I was doing and realised I wasn't going to get another kill in all likelihood or even do enough damage to cover the cost as I could see the rest of their company coming in hard and fast. Not my proudest moment if I'm being honest. I still had the second highest damage but it wasn't great as that mech really doesn't like the heat of Mordor in a sustained damage fight.

[Toxicresidue]

Gazbeard, on 27 June 2017 - 09:12 AM, said:

Remember that you too were once tier 5, that everyone has to learn, and that a F2P game like MWO relies on regular new (tier 5) players to keep growing. Players such as yourself that alienate them will cause a percentage to leave the game due to your toxicity and prejudice. Perhaps PGI should put restrictions on accounts of players like you forcing you to play only with tier 5's teaching them to "git gud" ... or would you just prefer to be outright banned for failing to promote tolerant attitude towards other players?

IMO you are part of the problem, not part of the solution. Toxicity and prejudice such as you display are one reason why MWO has such a bad reputation in terms of welcoming new players.

put a sock in it, you free speech hating commie!

[Aramuside]

Meldric Ward, on 27 June 2017 - 02:46 AM, said:

In case of FW this comparison is probably quite valid, as the old games had 10 times more depth in everything concerning the Star Map, Economy, Faction Politics and anything. But this obviously needs a company that puts a focus on it (which is PGI clearly not doing) and a community that actually wants this. This community clearly does not, because while complexity in FW could make a lot of sense, people seem to be happy with those useless and nonsense changes like the skill maze or always repeating stats-hunting events for another stupid cockpit item.

And all that while FW is still useless... There was another Tukayyid-Event after Terra had been surrounded by Clans for Month... Enough said!

Problem with that view and where you lose your audience is you get a lot of people like me who would like the complexity but also like everything you just called nonsense so we just ignore your vitriol. I'd love meaningful FW but atm its just dominated by toxic behaved 12 man teams where its pointless to go in anything else. FW people created that environment and then seem surprised no one wants to play there unless theres an event forcing us to.

Shino Tenshi, on 27 June 2017 - 08:48 AM, said:

Yes, I am, especially since many of them, IMHO opinion (and I'd be very surprised if not the opinion of anyone who spent any time on them) they created a much richer FW experience than what we have here. I really doubt it's even possible (or realistic) to expect MWO to get anywhere close to the detail/depth provided by the old MUX realspace environments, but I strongly feel they could take away some really good points from them to build towards an end goal for FW here.

I'm guessing by your question that you've never played on a MUX before?

No i haven't ergo my curiosity and confusion.

[Meldric Ward]

@Alienized:
So you suggest, it is the best tactic to look at the map, see everyone running away in all directions, choose the one running towards the enemy, go with him and die with him while everyone else doesn't see what is going on?

I disagree... holding a spot on the map is (not always, but) often a static tactic which very often leads into defeat. My experience is that staying mobile and decide on the current situation (as seen on the minimap) is the way to go. But this obviously does not work with PUGS as there is always that one guy running away and get killed alone or people simply do not listen.

So, much better than to run away like you suggest and hope that others will cover me, would be to see where the majority of the group is moving and try to make anyone else do the same. Separating is a bad idea if the opponent does not... and in that early stage where you think running away is the way to go, you simply do not know if the opponents does split up as well. If they don't... you die. As a consequence, your team probably dies.

Anyway, this is a matter that could be discussed in length. I think we are already off topic and as I do not think you would follow the argument, I tend to feel that this discussion will lead us nowhere.

BUT, we can agree on that playing with Pugs would be a much better experience if everyone would at least try to understand the basic idea of what the team was trying to do and would try to fit into that.

Other than that, the only chance one has is to play in teams with as many known people on the same TS as possible to make a tactic work that way. Unfortunatly, a lot of people turned away from the game already because of... oh well... reasons.

So, we can agree that we agree on close to anything but the general tactics of how to be stomped best.

Edited by Meldric Ward, 28 June 2017 - 02:48 AM.

[Alienized]

Meldric Ward, on 28 June 2017 - 02:45 AM, said:

bla ...

i suggest you take a closer look where most battles are on the maps, take a look at the mechs in your team and think about it for a second. whenever you see a assault going up front he does something good. support it.
whenever he tries to flank and be a light, tell him he is doin a mistake.

most of the time the mechs in use give you a clear hint of where on the map they can be. its no science.
it just takes a look at whats happening every battle.

the times so many people ignore the DWF's and king crabs gives you an idea how many people actually look at whats happening. they run away from them and dont get any help anymore from their own teams. R.I.P those mechs.
is that hard to understand what will happen to them? nope. someone like me actually gives a hint about those mechs needing support to get where they should be or they are useless in the battle.

then those mechs NEED to push. its how assaults work most of time (note: understanding the role of a mech helps alot)
whenever i see assaults following a dragon or linebacker on a flank i could cringe. obviously not going well (and why there shouldnt be any LRM boating assaults. )
those are basic understandings or should be.

also, why do you think are mechs in a lance with equally heavy mechs if possible? that they can work together alot better.
as soon as only a LANCE alone works together and moves together things get alot better for every mech in that lance.
that would solve the mechs spreading out too much already.
cant even see THAT EASY thing happenin.

[Meldric Ward]

Aramuside, on 28 June 2017 - 01:35 AM, said:

Problem with that view and where you lose your audience is you get a lot of people like me who would like the complexity but also like everything you just called nonsense so we just ignore your vitriol.

Me being vitriol has a number of proper reasons, one being the frustration of the repeated igonrance from all sides about where this game should be in my opinion. My opinion does not change anything (although I am obviously not alone with it), but it seems that PGI does the thing the loudest minority is requesting. I had NO need for any kind of WC, it has nothing to do with BattleTech and it does not bring anyone in... On the contrary, FW was dead last year once a number of teams started to be completly blocked by the WC. More and more splitting of an already small community does not improve anything.

FW should be up and running. Fun, complex and meaningful. Anything else would not be necessary if that would be the case. But that is just how a minority sees it.

@Alienized:
blah --> blubb. Done.

Edited by Meldric Ward, 28 June 2017 - 03:18 AM.

[Alienized]

meldric the biggest problem i have with all your stuff is basically this.
you are a legendary founder.
i was in closed beta as well.
yet you couldnt develop to anything better than t3.
i havent seen you playing, i dont know how you play and i really dont want to judge you basically on your tier.

thing is. you dont move forward with your game, you arent listening to advices (just what i pointed out earlier).
yet you tell far better players that understand more of the game and its secrets that they are wrong and blame em for telling people like you how they could improve.
why should someone actually listen to you?

i dont participate in any comp stuff nor WC and i basically dont need it either but having those things surely help this game more than FW currently does.
why?
no one has fun playing with or against players that simply have no clue what they are doing. thats the biggest flaw of the whole faction warfare. and that leads us back to where it started. the players themselves not stepping up their game after YEARS of playing the game.
not listening to advices yet going full rage towards people that try to help and spitting bs to make them rage and get banned.

[Meldric Ward]

Hi!

Haha! Well, yes, I am Tier 3. I have no problem with that. You would not possibly know why that is and what about it, but yet you take it as a matter of sorting me into something. Well, good luck. Not listening for advices? Not advancing in the game. Lol, you are just contradicting yourself and your plan not to judge me on the tier level.

As for the positions matches are decided at: If I have a team behind me, those are exactly the spots I will not go to and in a fair number of drops people are pretty surprised by that. Anyway, keep going as you think fits best. I will not change it (nor do I want to) and this discussion does not help any of us as I wrote before.

Edited by Meldric Ward, 28 June 2017 - 05:41 AM.

[Nelos Kniven]

MovinTarget, on 27 June 2017 - 08:15 AM, said:

Yes you could do pvp in MW4, but:

They were for fun, no "rewards"

Relied on an external, now defunct gaming hub to find servers and matches. There might be some privately hosted servers still, but since you could DoS people's games if they announced the IP... dunno how many still do.

I would *LOVE* an MW:O NHUA (no heat, unlimited ammo) mode, just for the lulz...

You can do MW4 still with GameRanger

[Shino Tenshi]

Aramuside, on 28 June 2017 - 01:35 AM, said:

No i haven't ergo my curiosity and confusion.

I wish there was still one I could direct you to, but anytime I see reference to one being still up and running it's down by the time I get there. I disappeared from the scene a number of years ago so I'm not sure exactly when they died, but they were starting to be on a serious decline as of 2005.

I actually just yesterday came across the old basic training docs for the original and longest lasting of the old MUXes. You can find it at http://mekcity.com/m...3/lesson3-1.php if you're interested. It won't give any sense for what FW (called RealSpace back in the day) was like, but will give a basic understanding of what it was like to pilot a mech and how the text based environment was handled.

I still keep hoping one will pop back up. If anyone ever did put one back up, I'd be happy to help on the admin side. Seeing how many people here in the MWO forums really want a solid FW, makes me wonder if there'd be enough interest to at least get one MUX properly running.