154 replies to this topic

[DavidStarr]

Kill Chain, on 22 July 2017 - 06:43 AM, said:

Tonnage is fine.

"Tonnage is fine" my ***. Play on the clan side some, then draw conclusions. Pre-Civil War I was winning maybe 30-40% of my drops (especially siege drops; quickplay modes were closer to 50%). Post-patch, I'm losing 90% regardless of the mode.
Curiously, even before that I was an IS loyalist, and my winrate was about 50%, 40 at worst. Then I switched to clan side around last September, and my success rate went down immediately. I was consistently getting worse games and was being stomped more often than on the IS side, and now after the latest update it's just horrible.

SmokeGuar, on 22 July 2017 - 02:48 AM, said:

Problem with increasing Clan tonnage is simple, what are you going to do with it?

Lots of options. I could maybe field two MAD-IICs instead of 1. Heck, I could field one without having to follow it up with 3 pretty small mechs to squeeze into the tonnage limit. I could field 3 heavies and a medium instead of 3 heavies and a light. The list goes on.

How do you figure KDK (-3 or -SB) is not viable? It may have been nerfed (I only played it after adjustments had been made to it), but it's a very decent and reliable mech now.

Edited by DavidStarr, 26 July 2017 - 10:56 PM.

[RaptorCWS]

DavidStarr, on 26 July 2017 - 10:43 PM, said:

"Tonnage is fine" my ***. Play on the clan side some, then draw conclusions. Pre-Civil War I was winning maybe 30-40% of my drops (especially siege drops; quickplay modes were closer to 50%). Post-patch, I'm losing 90% regardless of the mode.
Curiously, even before that I was an IS loyalist, and my winrate was about 50%, 40 at worst. Then I switched to clan side around last September, and my success rate went down immediately. I was consistently getting worse games and was being stomped more often than on the IS side, and now after the latest update it's just horrible.

spent about a week on both now. i have not noticed a change in my win loss ratio on either side.... what are your builds and are you pugging it.

[Mycroft000]

Looks like we're getting the tonnage balanced out a bit. May end up today per Russ on Twitter, but more likely to happen after the event is over. Today would be better.

[FallingAce]

Russ Bullock‏ @russ_bullock
"We have decided to move the IS tonnage down to 250 and try that for a bit. However we likely won't adjust this until after the event"





Watch the mercs jump back to the clan side.
Clans have lost 28 planets(equal to 7 phases) in 9 days. Wonder how long it will be to take them back.

Or go we get "balance" where neither side wins?

Edited by FallingAce, 27 July 2017 - 08:40 AM.

[Kill Chain]

DavidStarr, on 26 July 2017 - 10:43 PM, said:

"Tonnage is fine" my ***. Play on the clan side some, then draw conclusions. Pre-Civil War I was winning maybe 30-40% of my drops (especially siege drops; quickplay modes were closer to 50%). Post-patch, I'm losing 90% regardless of the mode.
Curiously, even before that I was an IS loyalist, and my winrate was about 50%, 40 at worst. Then I switched to clan side around last September, and my success rate went down immediately. I was consistently getting worse games and was being stomped more often than on the IS side, and now after the latest update it's just horrible.


Lots of options. I could maybe field two MAD-IICs instead of 1. Heck, I could field one without having to follow it up with 3 pretty small mechs to squeeze into the tonnage limit. I could field 3 heavies and a medium instead of 3 heavies and a light. The list goes on.

How do you figure KDK (-3 or -SB) is not viable? It may have been nerfed (I only played it after adjustments had been made to it), but it's a very decent and reliable mech now.

Tonnage IS fine. I have been playing a mix of QP and FW since the event (loving my new COM-2D) and I have still lost most of my FW matches. Maybe you're losing most of your matches but at the same time I can say I am also still losing most of mine. Anecdotal evidence is anecdotal of course. But I feel like aside from the complete PUG vs 90% premade groups, we still had a shot to win in those losing matches.

[Kill Chain]

FallingAce, on 27 July 2017 - 08:39 AM, said:

Russ Bullock‏ @russ_bullock "We have decided to move the IS tonnage down to 250 and try that for a bit. However we likely won't adjust this until after the event" Watch the mercs jump back to the clan side. Clans have lost 28 planets(equal to 7 phases) in 9 days. Wonder how long it will be to take them back. Or go we get "balance" where neither side wins?

Clan whiners win apparently. Just let things settle after people get done trying new IS tech. No lets instead kneejerk react because people on a forum are mad that IS farming season is over.

[DANKnuggz]

RaptorCWS, on 27 July 2017 - 07:15 AM, said:

spent about a week on both now. i have not noticed a change in my win loss ratio on either side.... what are your builds and are you pugging it.

if all you've spent is 1 week on each then frankly you don't really know S***.....

Kill Chain, on 27 July 2017 - 09:37 AM, said:

Clan whiners win apparently. Just let things settle after people get done trying new IS tech. No lets instead kneejerk react because people on a forum are mad that IS farming season is over.

awwww does you have a sad now that you're losing 15 tons of your advantage on top of new tech and ghost armor/structure??

The clan tech "advantage" isn't nearly large enough to bridge the gap as it is but you're not likely to see it that way since you're benefiting from all those handicaps...

[LordLeto]

And the wailing and lamentations of the ezmode players were too shrill for even PGI to ignore. But fear not, for even PGI cannot nerf teamwork. What the ezmode players think makes them strong only weakens them. You have survived the Kodak onslaught, the swarm of Cheetahs, and years of imbalance and become stronger for it. You have walked the Valley of the Shadow of the longtom, fought beside the lore, lrm, and bracket builds and have learned, if not what to do, what NOT to do, and are better for it.

No one can nerf teamwork. With this litany the Inner Sphere shall fight.

[Luminis]

It's amazing seeing people who ramble on about "ezmode" QQ because they're losing two thirds of their crutch.

[Kill Chain]

DANKnuggz, on 27 July 2017 - 09:43 AM, said:

if all you've spent is 1 week on each then frankly you don't really know S***..... awwww does you have a sad now that you're losing 15 tons of your advantage on top of new tech and ghost armor/structure?? The clan tech "advantage" isn't nearly large enough to bridge the gap as it is but you're not likely to see it that way since you're benefiting from all those handicaps...

Yep, can I have some huggles. "Advantage" lol. So much for balance; I guess I'll dust off my clan account maybe or just stick to QP and play FW when I get drunk.

Edited by Kill Chain, 27 July 2017 - 10:30 AM.

[RaptorCWS]

DANKnuggz, on 27 July 2017 - 09:43 AM, said:

if all you've spent is 1 week on each then frankly you don't really know S***.....

I know enough that my win loss ratio really has not changed. you dont have to have a large amount of time to see a difference in that. try losing the lrms and communicating with your team.

[Dead Tom Kerensky]

Yay maybe now I can have some actual fights rather than just gen rush after gen rush with clanners screaming op in all chat. I was told multiple times by clan that IS now have more armor (probably right), more firepower (questionable), and more speed (nope) than clan mechs. Get the tonnage changed asap so IS can adjust our decks again and lets see if the clanners put on their big boy pants.

[Ripper X]

Personally I'm doing pretty good with 240 tons. I have yet to play IS very much in FW and plan to when I get back from vacation. If my performance is changed drastically playing with IS mechs then I may change my opinion.

I don't gauge my performance on whether my team wins or loses.

Edited by Ripper X, 27 July 2017 - 11:41 AM.

[LordLeto]

Luminis, on 27 July 2017 - 10:22 AM, said:

It's amazing seeing people who ramble on about "ezmode" QQ because they're losing two thirds of their crutch.

When the IS dominates FP for years at a time with brief, quickly squashed, interludes of clan resurgence we can come back to the discussion of which tech is ezmode. It's pretty clear for most people. But apparently a week of IS "dominance" that coincided with new toys to try out and a FP event, that by most accounts are underwhelming, is proof enough to sway the inscrutable geniuses at PGI that things need to change and now.

Excuse me if I bring up the wildly unbalance clan launch, the year or so of nerfs it took to make other assaults competitive to the King Kodiak or lights to the Cheetah, or that most Best in Class mechs continue to be Clan and clan mechs continue to dominate competitions. 3 easy tukk victories for clans and 4 phases with the same result. To compare with what, the quirkening that got quashed in a few months and a week of wildly suspect data?

Talk to me about crutches some other time. Perhaps while not sporting your newest clan meta assault tag and banner.

Edited by LordLeto, 27 July 2017 - 12:04 PM.

[Luminis]

LordLeto, on 27 July 2017 - 12:03 PM, said:

When the IS dominates FP for years at a time with brief, quickly squashed, interludes of clan resurgence we can come back to the discussion of which tech is ezmode. It's pretty clear for most people. But apparently a week of IS "dominance" that coincided with new toys to try out and a FP event, that by most accounts are underwhelming, is proof enough to sway the inscrutable geniuses at PGI that things need to change and now.

Excuse me if I bring up the wildly unbalance clan launch, the year or so of nerfs it took to make other assaults competitive to the King Kodiak or lights to the Cheetah, or that most Best in Class mechs continue to be Clan and clan mechs continue to dominate competitions. 3 easy tukk victories for clans and 4 phases with the same result. To compare with what, the quirkening that got quashed in a few months and a week of wildly suspect data?

What did you expect, if I may ask? Two years of IS dominance and further imbalance to compensate for the Clan superiority (during most of which my idiot self stuck with Steiner, of all factions...)? PGI not changing the tonnage bonus because the added tech doesn't affect balance at all?

LordLeto, on 27 July 2017 - 12:03 PM, said:

Talk to me about crutches some other time. Perhaps while not sporting your newest clan meta assault tag and banner.

The idea behind giving the IS a tonnage advantage is the very definition of a crutch and there was nothing wrong with that a few patches ago; the last few patches did have impact on balance and adjusting the handicap the IS gets - which is unrelated to tech base or player skill, aka. a crutch - stands to be adjusted. That's ignoring the idea that PGI added it to compensate for population more than anything in the first place.

I'm with you as far as PGI's balancing schedule goes. They don't address obvious stuff for way too long and other times, they alter balance long before they can possibly have a serviceable amount of data.

[DANKnuggz]

RaptorCWS, on 27 July 2017 - 10:55 AM, said:

I know enough that my win loss ratio really has not changed. you dont have to have a large amount of time to see a difference in that. try losing the lrms and communicating with your team.

Try not guessing what I'm running.... I run full direct fire cause LRMing is for chumps and probably communicate too much =P....

It's all about sample size and frankly 1 week is a tiny tiny tiny sample size to be drawing any conclusions from....

[LordLeto]

Luminis, on 27 July 2017 - 12:53 PM, said:

What did you expect, if I may ask? Two years of IS dominance and further imbalance to compensate for the Clan superiority (during most of which my idiot self stuck with Steiner, of all factions...)? PGI not changing the tonnage bonus because the added tech doesn't affect balance at all?

More than a week and a day but less than a couple months of data used to make the decision. Preferably some data not being from the time just after new tech drops AND an event that skews participation numbers.

The tonnage may need to be adjusted, I expected it to change just cause of LFE, I expected PGI to go about it in just about the most ham fisted manner possible. Still gonna call a spade and spade when I see one. I'm still gonna take the piss out of people who back obviously flawed decisions and decision making processes.

Quote

The idea behind giving the IS a tonnage advantage is the very definition of a crutch and there was nothing wrong with that a few patches ago; the last few patches did have impact on balance and adjusting the handicap the IS gets - which is unrelated to tech base or player skill, aka. a crutch - stands to be adjusted. That's ignoring the idea that PGI added it to compensate for population more than anything in the first place.

I'm with you as far as PGI's balancing schedule goes. They don't address obvious stuff for way too long and other times, they alter balance long before they can possibly have a serviceable amount of data.

Clanners whining about deck tonnage is akin to using two crutches while being miffed the other guy has one. Why can't he walk around. I do it just fine! Git gud.

PGI claimed they did it because of pop, PGI has claimed There were single faction v single faction events coming in the first half of the year too. Their claims don't really hold much weight.

[Steel Claws]

LordFatman, on 26 July 2017 - 01:17 PM, said:

clans have lighter engines can carry more weapons faster mechs and longer range weapons that do more damage that's why you get less tons any why you have more people playing clan mechs its easy mode

IS also has huge quirks. Try shooting 3 or 4 clan ERL or large pulse at the same time and see what happens. IS mechs can do this with ease. IS tech may weigh more but it tends to also work far better than clan tech.

Edited by Steel Claws, 27 July 2017 - 06:42 PM.

[Stahlherz]

Will be interesting to see which Medium 'Mech will turn up more often.

[Marius Evander]

Its very simple, people with cbills to put LFE in their dropdecks with 265 tons op. The problem is the taters cant afford that. =). At a high skill, big game investment the mechs at very close to balanced, i would even say IS extremely OP at top tier and if balancing for that IS should now have lower tonnage than clans. Problem is most of the population isnt top tier so IS need tonnage advantage still because clans win more at puggle level long range poke trading.