154 replies to this topic

[SmokeGuar]

Problem with increasing Clan tonnage is simple, what are you going to do with it? Kodiak (-3) was only viable Clan assault, but it got nerfed to ground, all rest have limitations that make them less desired. Burning two boats to kill one IS assault results loss in most invasion modes.

Since Tuk 2 was siege maps only, it was possible to do gen rushes and win. That is how we got one of our last victories on Tuk 2, full blast, ignore mechs and omega down on 1st drop. Now that siege attacks are only small part of games that wont help much.

Edited by SmokeGuar, 22 July 2017 - 02:54 AM.

[Krokozor]

SmokeGuar, on 22 July 2017 - 02:48 AM, said:

Problem with increasing Clan tonnage is simple, what are you going to do with it?

there is lots of good mechs on heavy side. like scroch, nerfed night gyr, madcat mk2, orion. i dont take them cause small drop deck.

[Racerxintegra2k]

I say let the clans have there tonnage back. We can always adjust it as needed. Although i will be honest Clans being forced to take lights has won them matches.

[Kill Chain]

Tonnage is fine. I've had closer matches since the Civil War patch than I have in a long time. The only rolls I have seen for either side have been when it is 90% premade vs 90% PUG. Otherwise things have actually seemed close and balanced.

Edited by Kill Chain, 22 July 2017 - 09:49 AM.

[Steel Claws]

Don't increase the clan tonnage - reduce the IS tonnage. You should have to sacrifice something in order to field an assault.

[sub2000]

Steel Claws, on 22 July 2017 - 08:37 AM, said:

Don't increase the clan tonnage - reduce the IS tonnage. You should have to sacrifice something in order to field an assault.

You sacrifice . If you want 2 battlemasters you end up taking two blackjacks as a punishment . If you reduce deck weight it will be fire-starters. I am not so sure it is better for the clan side.

Edited by sub2000, 22 July 2017 - 09:50 AM.

[SmokeGuar]

Scorch and MadCat are behind paywall. Orion and Night Gyr do not have armor to trade with Annihilator.

[naterist]

SmokeGuar, on 22 July 2017 - 11:27 AM, said:

Scorch and MadCat are behind paywall. Orion and Night Gyr do not have armor to trade with Annihilator.

no, but they can sure outrun it.

[Ductus Hase]

SmokeGuar, on 22 July 2017 - 11:27 AM, said:

Scorch and MadCat are behind paywall. Orion and Night Gyr do not have armor to trade with Annihilator.

No worries... Annihilator is behind paywall

Right now the Balance appears to be alright:
Had 3 matches as premade against a premade yesterday - Clans won 2:1 - very close and we had great fun.

[Steel Claws]

Ductus Hase, on 22 July 2017 - 03:25 PM, said:

No worries... Annihilator is behind paywall

Right now the Balance appears to be alright:
Had 3 matches as premade against a premade yesterday - Clans won 2:1 - very close and we had great fun.

So much for behind the wall, I just had a drop where the other team fielded no less than 6 Annihilators on the first drop alone and they pretty much marched through us like we weren't there. The rest of their team was in Maulers and Battlemasters. Second drop was more of the same. Didn't help that we had a no drop and a disco.

Edited by Steel Claws, 23 July 2017 - 06:40 AM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

I have to admit I am chaffing a bit at the drop tonnage restriction for Clans. I am fielding a Supernova, Summoner or Ebon Jag, Hunchback IIC and a Purifier while it seems like every IS drop deck just seems to be wave after wave of LFE equiped Battlemasters (Which I own and know how powerful they are). Annihilators are common on the IS side as well where as you never see a 100 tonner Clan mech anymore (because the nerfs made them all suck and none of them have the damage soak ability of a Atlas or Annihilator).

However oddly enough the situation feels very lore friendly. I mean remember, the Clans always bid down their forces and would never consider attacking a numerical inferior force hehe.

Though while it might be lore friendly, it doesn't feel balance friendly, not any more.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

Pre New Tech: I have been in the camp of "leaving it where it is" up till now...Capable IS teams did very well with the tonnage advantage...which of course was irksome sometimes (when you faced them) but was an understandable move overall considering the map. Plus, most IS pilots didn't make the best use of their tonnage and Clan PUGs seemed to out (pillow) fight IS pugs....ever so slightly

Now: It's time to readdress. Equalization at 250 again would be worth trying...just so Clans can try to field some assaults and the IS can't run 2 assaults without worrying about the back half of their deck being too light. However, I imagine it will probably end up with IS at 250 and Clans where we are. No more dual-assaults with no worries on the back end...I could probably live with that.
Again, just like pre new tech....Clan teams are probably doing fine. Personally, I am 21-3 in this event(not bragging...just to say I am not crying because of a bunch of losses), so far...,we only lost running 3-6 man's where we ran into quality IS pre-mades with greater numbers. However, the IS has been rolling overall Friday and Saturday which was pretty much the equal and opposite conditions that occurred at the launch of phase 4 that got the Clans tonnage nerfed in the first place.

Btw: I am going Merc next week (just broke loyalty) so I submit this as a player who would be playing the lower IS weight at some point soon in FW

Edited by Marquis De Lafayette, 23 July 2017 - 09:18 AM.

[DGTLDaemon]

My observations from this event have been the same as my initial observations back when Phase 4 went live and PGI gave the IS the tonnage crutch. As a Clan player, when playing pug vs. pug, you win more often than not, simply because Clan pugs seem to be more organized and determined than their IS counterparts. When dropping in a premade vs. premade, you lose more often than not, because the enemy has significant weight advantage and knows how to use it. And, of course, you always win when dropping in a premade vs. pugs, and you always lose when going solo against premades. So this tonnage difference is just a crutch for IS pugs, and has nothing to do with tech balance - which PGI have openly admitted long ago. And, of course, I am strongly opposed to this kind of faction balancing based on the percentage of potatoes on each side.

[Honeybadgers]

this event I am 5w 40L. The new tech IS has is just good. It's as good as ours now. But they also have huge quirks, LFE's to help field large loadout in short range configs, and a 300 ton overall advantage in each game.

We need three things - Make new clan tech not such dogshit (fix ATM's health, speed, minimum range, at a mild reduction in short range damage, make heavy lasers not so obscenely hot or reduce their size so we can boat more HS) let us bring the stormcrow back into scouting, and drop the IS tonnage advantage to be equal with ours.

Also fix the explosion effect on our mechs when RAC's are hammering us. I literally cannot see a single thing when an urbanmech with a RAC2 is hitting me anywhere near the cockpit.

As it stands, we simply can't stand toe to toe with the IS anymore. We still have an advantage at ranges over 700m, but LFE's, quirks, and the new heavy gauss, heavy peep, snub peep, MRM's and RL's are just melting us inside of 600. maps like HPG are just shitshows because we can't kite.

Edited by Honeybadgers, 25 July 2017 - 05:00 PM.

[Mycroft000]

I'm all for a reduction in tonnage on both sides. I'd happily give up another 15 tons to get IS tonnage down to 230-235. But I've also been an advocate for increasing rewards(mostly on the Clan side for lore reasons) for dropping with an underweight drop deck. I could easily see an argument being made for opening that up to both sides, and give Clans 240 and IS 250.

[LordFatman]

clans have lighter engines can carry more weapons faster mechs and longer range weapons that do more damage that's why you get less tons any why you have more people playing clan mechs its easy mode

[Mycroft000]

LordFatman, balance has basically been achieved at this point. Take two competent pilots and put them in any mech they're comfortable in, and the outcome will be down to who places their shots better. If Clans were truly "easy mode" IS could never with a 1v1, and that's simply not the case. Each side has their own advantages and disadvantages.

The only other way to achieve balance will not work in this game as built currently: 10v12

[Commander A9]

If I was back at 250 tons, I'd take my original 250 dropdeck: 2 Timber Wolves, 1 Ebon Jaguar, and my Arctic Cheetah.

I see no reason by game mechanics to refrain from balancing tonnage out at 250-250. Player skill should never be used by a game developer as a means of 'balancing' a game-ever.

[Luminis]

Going by recent posts on queue times and my own experience, it would seem that the IS is currently more populated than the Clans (which kinda goes against the whole "everyone plays Clan because ezmode" narrative).

But yeah, if people stopped looking at engine weight or the damage a given weapon does as the sole metric of balance, that'd be great. Ignoring laser duration / weapon spread, heat (offsetting the lower number of DHS and, thus, reducing required tonnage), cooldown, agility and, most importantly, quirks - both offensive and defensive - when discussing balance is plain wrong.

Edited by Luminis, 26 July 2017 - 10:36 PM.

[Carl Vickers]

Luminis, on 26 July 2017 - 10:35 PM, said:

Going by recent posts on queue times and my own experience, it would seem that the IS is currently more populated than the Clans (which kinda goes against the whole "everyone plays Clan because ezmode" narrative).

But yeah, if people stopped looking at engine weight or the damage a given weapon does as the sole metric of balance, that'd be great. Ignoring laser duration / weapon spread, heat (offsetting the lower number of DHS and, thus, reducing required tonnage), cooldown, agility and, most importantly, quirks - both offensive and defensive - when discussing balance is plain wrong.

The only reason there are more players (if thats actually true) in IS than Clans atm is because of new tech, no other reason. What has been said in the past still stands.