465 replies to this topic

[Pilotasso]

the solution to the problem is simple: get rid of the drop ships for defenders. Replace them by a base with mech hangars. Once the enemy gets them, they would have met (one of the) winning conditions and game is over.

The attackers spawn area should be covered by arty and frequent air strikes so that it becomes discouraging for defenders bother getting there at all.

Edited by Pilotasso, 23 June 2017 - 12:58 PM.

[DoctorDetroit]

There is no magic wand that PGI can wave to make poorly organized players compete with organized players. The wall currently make spawn camping a little too easy, so I would suggest just making 1 big drop area with fewer walls that block dropship shots. Mismatched teams will still spawn camp, but that is part of the game.

[Leggin Ho]

Once again, make a super turret or whatever, but after 1 min you still inside the drop zone (500 to 750 meters space) you automatically suicide, after 2 you get a 30 min ban from play, after 3 a 2 hour ban from play. people wait to play this game, if you want a "I quit" button so you don't have to play certain teams or players, then you should be punished for wasting their time as well as your own.

Your in a game to fight and win, there are two ways to do this, one is by taking the objective the other is a win by killing the other team, but BOTH are valid ways to win a match, deal with that or just stay in QP where you don't have re-spawn and can't get camped due to poor performance / teamwork.

Edited by Leggin Ho, 23 June 2017 - 02:00 PM.

[BlueFlames]

If the other team has pushed my team all the way back to the spawn, then I'm just as happy to have them spawn camp and get the match over with quickly.

[Leonidas the First]

Utilize AI to drop mechs in what ever spawn point has the least number of enemies hear it.

Give teams the option waiting and dropping 3 or 4 at a time.

[Leggin Ho]

Leonidas the First, on 23 June 2017 - 02:24 PM, said:

Utilize AI to drop mechs in what ever spawn point has the least number of enemies hear it.

Give teams the option waiting and dropping 3 or 4 at a time.

I hope your not finally pushing for the win at the end of the game and the system allows them to hold dropping for the final 2 min. Things like this have been tried before in other MW games and leagues, if it can be abused it will be.

[justcallme A S H]

Hobbles v, on 23 June 2017 - 12:48 PM, said:

Spoiler

Finally got around to digging through my stream recordings. Here is the game in which BCMC spawn camped the OPs team question.



Few lessons that can be observed from this match.

The first wave, you guys moved up to challenge us, this was good. Even though we utterly crushed your first wave, you'll notice your second wave had plenty of time to leave the DZ and contest us in the rear of the base. Our first wave went on for another 3 minutes after we destroyed your first 12 and because you did the right thing and moved up, we never got to touch your DZ.

Notice the big difference during our second attack wave, you guys all hung back close to O-Gen 2, so this wave when we crushed you, we were already at the DZ. Also not one bit of spawn "camping" occurred until we had already killed 32, and that was a semi suicidal charge into the DZ.

Ok so it was a team vs team game (almost) and the OP is essentially unhappy about being beaten by a better team. BCMC, you guys are an excellent FP team.

I mean feedback wise you've given them some decent...

Further feedback

1. Lost at the first wave in the lobby, before hitting ground.
2. First wave mechs bad choices. KTO/PXH/TDR? Shocking choices first wave
3. First wave should be Assaults or bigger heavies with either laser vom of full brawl. WHM/WHM/BLR/BNC/CP/Atlas etc etc
4. The GIGh Cataphract was out of position early. Very poor discipline/positioning.

I stopped watching after #4 as that tells me all I need to know. It's just an overall comedy of errors before even hitting the ground and then that continues.

The GIGh players should watch the video, read the advice being given and learn from it and thus, improve. That is all you do from a loss like this. If you don't sit back and address what you did wrong, you'll never get better.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 23 June 2017 - 06:14 PM.

[Doc Arachinus]

only reasonable fix I see is to place a drop ship in the drop zone. one big enough you walk out of instead of dropping from. This dropship would have more firepower the closer you got to it. Like on the outskirts but inside the drop you are only getting hit by its ER LL but as you get closer it starts pounding away with more lasers and what ever other weapons payload a union class dropship carries. Hell if they wanted to they could even place damage points on the dropships weapons and make them destroyable for units tough enough and strong to actually overwhelm both the defenders and its dropships weapons. rather have a dropship I can walk out of then drop out of. And defenders should be coming out of hangers not dropships.

[Sjorpha]

Does it really make that much of a difference if it's fixed?

I mean if you're being stomped so hard that you're getting spawn camped the only difference would be dying a few seconds later as you leave the dropzone.

Spawn camping allows stomps to end quicker so that both teams can queue up for a hopefully better game, those matches where spawncamps happen are bad games and they shouldn't be prolonged.

One thing I'd change is the reward system, it should reward ending the games through objectives more than farming the last mechs, that would reduce spawn camping in those game modes that have objective based wincons.

[Commander A9]

Spawn camping will stop...when the attacking force no longer has a reason to spawn-camp...

...like when the camped team stops using their spawn as a platform to snipe or launch missiles...or hide...

[Vanguard319]

Nothing wrong with spawn camping, it's a legit strategy, It you are attacking, and getting spawn rushed, then from my PoV it's because your team is forfeiting initiative. There is a reason why it has been said the best defense is an aggressive offense: By attacking, you are forcing your opponent to respond to your actions and on your terms. If you are sitting in your spawn, you have essentially given up initiative and told your opponent "we have chosen to fight on your terms." An army that fights on it's opponent's terms is going to lose almost every time, and even their victories will be pyrrhic ones.

if you are getting spawn camped it is because you and yours have allowed it to happen.

[Willard Phule]

The only reason spawn camping happens is because you're not allowed to tuck tail and run off the map.

Face it, if your team can't manage to even hold it's ground against the other team, you were outmatched and outgunned. You can blame that on PGI for allowing people to drop into FW completely unprepared. New players in trial mechs can't stand up against modified and fully skilled mechs piloted by experienced people. Just can't be done, nor should it.

[STEF_]

gamingogre, on 21 June 2017 - 07:35 PM, said:

Every time I get spawned ***** I report the team as exploiting and quit for the night. Spawn killing is unacceptable. Why has PGI allowed this? Fix the maps or remove them from a multiple waves of drops. Please understand this is non-negotiable. Fix. The. Spawn. Killing.

Fix the potato being farmed?

LOL.

What is the difference between being farmed at spawn, and being farmed in the middle of the map?

Much better at the spawn: less time wasted.

[Jman5]

One thing they could do is initiate a mercy rule vote when your team is down by more than 12 mechs after 15-20 minutes. If 2/3 of the living players on the losing team think the game is over, then the match ends there.

Maybe add some sort of fun mini game where players on the losing team get a little bonus if they can escape to an extraction zone ala scouting.

Also might help if they angle the dropzone walls inward so attacking teams can't just hide behind them when the dropships come in.

[MischiefSC]

Jman5, on 26 June 2017 - 02:28 PM, said:

One thing they could do is initiate a mercy rule vote when your team is down by more than 12 mechs after 15-20 minutes. If 2/3 of the living players on the losing team think the game is over, then the match ends there.

Maybe add some sort of fun mini game where players on the losing team get a little bonus if they can escape to an extraction zone ala scouting.

Also might help if they angle the dropzone walls inward so attacking teams can't just hide behind them when the dropships come in.

The problem is that if you mentally allow people to surrender then a big swath always will, even if the team votes against them they'll just 'surrender' in how they play.

Quitters quit. The option to quit just makes them more eager to do so. Don't even allow the concept in.

Best option I can think of is random drop locations instead of static drop zones. Drop at random every mech in a single large area and give the player a 'hold for wave' option where they don't drop until there are 6+ mechs dropping all together and then drop them in a group.

[Appogee]

MischiefSC, on 26 June 2017 - 02:34 PM, said:

The problem is that if you mentally allow people to surrender then a big swath always will, even if the team votes against them they'll just 'surrender' in how they play.

Quitters quit. The option to quit just makes them more eager to do so. Don't even allow the concept in.

Agreed.

In fact, I think some of the very best victories are those where you were convinced you were going to lose ... but you fought hard, used your head, and pulled it back to win at the last second.

But if anyone on your team surrenders - even mentally - they will just drag the team down to defeat.

[Novakaine]

If the Dropships did serious damage which they should.
Spawn camping would almost cease to exist
And since Dropships are a temporary asset it couldn't be used to hide under.
Leopard Class Dropship:
2 x PPCs
3 x LRM-20s
7 x Medium Lasers
5 x Large Lasers
Damn you Dropship Dan!

Edited by Novakaine, 26 June 2017 - 03:25 PM.

[Leggin Ho]

MischiefSC, on 26 June 2017 - 02:34 PM, said:

The problem is that if you mentally allow people to surrender then a big swath always will, even if the team votes against them they'll just 'surrender' in how they play.

Quitters quit. The option to quit just makes them more eager to do so. Don't even allow the concept in.

Best option I can think of is random drop locations instead of static drop zones. Drop at random every mech in a single large area and give the player a 'hold for wave' option where they don't drop until there are 6+ mechs dropping all together and then drop them in a group.

Might work if you also disable the group function for the last 5 - 8 mins of a match so folks don't use it to hide in the drop ships instead of the spawn...

[50 50]

LordNothing, on 22 June 2017 - 10:09 PM, said:

...you can counter it though. nobody rtbs to help spawners who are usually on their own against a wolf pack. ...

What I like about this is that it could be treated like a little dynamic in game mission.
If drop zones could be captured/contested then getting a voice over when one comes under attack announcing "Drop zone Alpha is under attack." helps to alert players to what is actively happening.
I'm pretty sure there are already rewards in the game for defending an objective, I think they pop up in conquest.
It's not a big step from there to include that sort of bonus for defending a contested dropzone and getting a bonus for it.
It creates a mission.
Wouldn't be nice to get a second message: "Defend Drop Zone Alpha from the enemy" and we get a reward/mission bonus if successful?
Similarly the attacker should get a bonus for taking the drop zone?

A lot of the problems that arise from the game play can be converted into features adding depth each time.
A problem is just an unrealized opportunity.

Leone, on 22 June 2017 - 11:07 PM, said:

Do you realize how formidable those things already are?

Here is the full Lore armament of a leopard class drop ship.

2 x PPCs
3 x LRM-20s
7 x Medium Lasers
5 x Large Lasers

And I'd rather have that than the 'ole Twelve ER Large.

~Leone.

I wondered also.
I would like to see more interaction with the dropships

Edited by 50 50, 26 June 2017 - 07:53 PM.

[nehebkau]

@OP and everyone in favor of making dropships stronger. When you do this you will end up with the puggles hiding in their drop zones and the more aggressive team having to pursue them. While this will NOT be an issue in matches where you have an objective to take down and win, in matches where kills count -- like counter attack -- this will be the norm for some teams. Ask some of the stronger teams how many times they have had the full 12 hiding in their dropzone --- it happens a lot already and would get exponentially worse as bads be more bad.

The ONLY way that beefing up the dropzone would work is if the people dropping in the dropzone had a certain amount of time to vacate the zone before something bad happens to them. Honestly, the best solution is to make something bad happen to both teams who enter dropzones and the team who owns the dropzone has a timer before that happens while the invaders have it happen right away. My thoughts would be increasing heat on a mech until it shuts down and explodes, giving the owners of the dropzone 60 seconds to clear before that starts to happen and attackers no time before heat starts to climb (like a flamer with no 90% heat cap).

Edited by nehebkau, 27 June 2017 - 05:51 AM.