465 replies to this topic

[Leone]

kf envy, on 28 June 2017 - 11:08 AM, said:

Just give the drop ships there proper weapon load out and have all 3 hang around the LZ for a minute

Did you pay no attention to the post just above yours? Okay, sure, nerf the dropship an let it hang around for longer, so that you get your reinforcements slower, and are fighting whilst outnumbered the whole game. Excellent, I'm fine with that. Problem is we're looking to make thinks easier for the guys getting overrun, not harder.

Or maybe make em destructible? You'd definitely not want em around for a full minute then. 120 armour a side, doubled due to the game system, say double that to account for structure? So yeah, 480 damage in a minute? Easy.

A lot can happen in a minute. Take a step back, don't try and solve the symptom, cure the disease.

"Only you can prevent your spawn from getting overrun."

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 28 June 2017 - 11:52 AM.

[Zangief79]

maybe the OP should just stick with Tetris and Super Mario.

[Willard Phule]

Doesn't matter whether you bring the dropships to "true lore" firepower or not....and TRUST ME, you'd hear "CLANS OP" until your ears bled if they upgraded the Clan dropships to Leopard-C configuration.

What they need to do is simply increase the effective range of whatever the hell they decide to put on the dropships. Having a laser and targeting system that reaches way out would make a huge difference.

It's a shame they're not interested in putting in AI controlled vehicles. Having a platoon or two of self propelled weapon systems would go a long way to defending a drop zone.

[MischiefSC]

Zangief79, on 28 June 2017 - 12:42 PM, said:

maybe the OP should just stick with Tetris and Super Mario.

No, Tetris keeps getting harder. It doesn't get easier when you make a mistake. That's the opposite of what's desired here. The push we're seeing here is to make the game easier when you make bad choices and play poorly.

If more people played the old Super Mario and Tetris games we wouldn't have this discussion - people would realize that when they fail it's something they need to improve to win next time, not that everything and everyone else needs to scale down to let them win anyway.

[Willard Phule]

Leone, on 28 June 2017 - 11:49 AM, said:

Did you pay no attention to the post just above yours? Okay, sure, nerf the dropship an let it hang around for longer, so that you get your reinforcements slower, and are fighting whilst outnumbered the whole game. Excellent, I'm fine with that. Problem is we're looking to make thinks easier for the guys getting overrun, not harder.

Perhaps that should be one of the actual functions of a "commander?" Maybe part of the communications wheel only available to a "commander?" Request air support calls the dropships, whether they're loaded or not? His choice.

Leone, on 28 June 2017 - 11:49 AM, said:

Or maybe make em destructible? You'd definitely not want em around for a full minute then. 120 armour a side, doubled due to the game system, say double that to account for structure? So yeah, 480 damage in a minute? Easy.

That would be cool, but only in application as to whether they've got Mechs in them and what happens if they do. Eliminating a dropping lance by destroying it's dropship would add depth to this game that I think is beyond PGI, but hey, it'd be cool.

It would also necessitate the addition of egg-type dropships. They pack a lot more firepower and would absolutely change the tenor of just about every map out there, depending on which side is doing what. Having an Overlord (or Overlord-C) dropping reinforcements 12 at a time would absolutely change the defense side of a Siege, or prevent spawn farming if the enemy is within so close of the dropzones.

Sure, it would slow down the pace of the game, but 99% of the problem with a spawn farm is momentum. You've got 12 enemies in your dropzone and you're coming down in pairs. Having the server switch to an Overlord would guarantee that everyone is regrouped and ready to go when they hit the deck.....backed up by a ton of ACs, PPCs and Lasers of various flavors.

Leone, on 28 June 2017 - 11:49 AM, said:

A lot can happen in a minute. Take a step back, don't try and solve the symptom, cure the disease.

"Only you can prevent your spawn from getting overrun."

~Leone.

Not all the time. The other point to farming is to know when you've lost. You can still farm Cbills or whatever. But when your PUG team is just feeding itself into a meat grinder one at a time, there's not much you CAN do.

[Chagatay]

Zangief79, on 28 June 2017 - 12:42 PM, said:

maybe the OP should just stick with Tetris and Super Mario.

"Nintendo Hard" is an extremely rare find these days in any game.

[Khalcruth]

It occurs to me, that if you're looking for a way to clear a dropzone (of both attackers and defenders), we already have a pretty decent mechanic for this. It's name is Long Tom.

Heck, adding it back in for this purpose would probably make Russ happy, because he could say he finally had a use for it and the time spent coding it was not, in the end, a waste.

If that's too drastic (I don't think it is, but I might be a bit draconian about it) you might also be able to have several random airstirkes go off in the dropzone periodically. Presumably, there are aerospace fighters both escorting and attacking any incoming dropship.

Edited by Khalcruth, 29 June 2017 - 01:58 PM.

[Commander A9]

Yeah, but once THAT comes back, you'll see enemy lights charge headlong into camping formations inside the dropzone and drop the ordnance directly on the campers' heads...

Meanwhile, oh boy, I'm looking forward to Assault Lasers! Let the "Clans OP!" tears flow hard baby!

[Khalcruth]

I don't really follow you Commander a9 - what would lights have to do with anything? Maybe I wasn't specific enough, though - as an example, every 2 minutes, a long tom round hits the dropzone. Don't be in it, defender or attacker, or you will suffer the consequences.

[General Solo]

Some one may have already said this. (Skimmed the last few pages)

Friend a member of the stompers team.
Then use the friends list to avoid dropping when they do.

Said technique can be used for nefarious purposes as well.
Doesn't solve the problem, but it can ease the pain.

For me, getting a few kills whilst being spawn camped is highly satisfying.

Spawn camping will exist whenever there's a large performance miss match, its just Science

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 29 June 2017 - 07:34 PM.

[nehebkau]

When confronted with a game where meeting the ascribed 'Win conditions' is impossible with the current game condition, if at all possible, redefine the 'Win conditions' to something that is achievable under the current game conditions...

Also Known As.... "Kill Pat at any cost" win condition.

[Commander A9]

Back in the old days, Long Tom would designate targets based on mechs rather than grids.

If they have it work the same way, and they just likely might...then expect artillery to be turned against the people it's meant to protect.

[Khalcruth]

Commander A9, on 30 June 2017 - 01:59 PM, said:

Back in the old days, Long Tom would designate targets based on mechs rather than grids.

If they have it work the same way, and they just likely might...then expect artillery to be turned against the people it's meant to protect.

While true, that's exactly not what I was suggesting.

[Commander A9]

Alright, you want spawn-camping to stop?

We literally JUST got out of a 48-11 match wherein on Alpine Peaks Skirmish, our opposition literally hid in their drop zones on the west edge of the map for the ENTIRE game! Very few, if any, even bothered to present a firing formation to engage us, and what formations they did were one-to-two-man lances which folded in seconds. We traded shots only once we crested the hills to reach their drop zones on the west side.

3 people quit mid-match on their team over it.

They quite literally gave us the entire map.

What do you expect us to do in this sort-of scenario? Do you expect us to just...sit outside...and...wait for you to poke your head out and play whack-a-mole?

You can't hide in your drop zones and demand spawn-camping be off-limits.

Edited by Commander A9, 30 June 2017 - 08:28 PM.

[RuptorJoB]

Maybe if that marvelous command of "Nuke enemy team" appeared after you get spawn killed alla Battelfield4 the big players would learn how to stop that toxic behaviour!

But in the same time solo player shouldn't play Faction warfare.

[50 50]

@Commander A9.
Very good point.

And that is exactly the problem guys.
If one team isn't going to try and go on the offensive, what choice does the other team get?
Camp the drop zone and kill the enemy as they land.

We have to accept that spawn camping is simply a scenario that will happen when one team is overwhelmed or doesn't leave as per the example above.

We should not be pursuing a way to stop it.
We need a method that prevents the next lot of mechs from dropping in should that location be overrun and the position lost.

It might mean separating the locations a bit, but that's not hard.
It's not some mystery to solve. Just let the zone be captured.
Far out.

[MischiefSC]

50 50, on 01 July 2017 - 03:19 AM, said:

@Commander A9.
Very good point.

And that is exactly the problem guys.
If one team isn't going to try and go on the offensive, what choice does the other team get?
Camp the drop zone and kill the enemy as they land.

We have to accept that spawn camping is simply a scenario that will happen when one team is overwhelmed or doesn't leave as per the example above.

We should not be pursuing a way to stop it.
We need a method that prevents the next lot of mechs from dropping in should that location be overrun and the position lost.

It might mean separating the locations a bit, but that's not hard.
It's not some mystery to solve. Just let the zone be captured.
Far out.

Spawns don't get camped by magic. Nobody teleports across the map. If someone is in your spawn it's because you didn't move far enough away from yours when you dropped.

That's it. That's all.

If the fight happens in the middle of the map and both teams hustle to get back out when they drop spawn camping doesn't happen.

Spawn camping happens when one side only moves up a little or when they die stays in their spawn to use the dropships for additional cover.

That's it. If you're moving forward when you drop you're fine. Drops take at most 20 seconds. At 80kph a mech covers a bit under 450m in that timeframe. Most spawns are 1500-2000 m from the middle of the map.

Spawn camping happens when one side is timid and the other aggressive. Being timid gets you crushed in FW. Being timid helps in QP because you use your teammates as armor to inflate your score so your stats shine while you help your team lose. In FW that bites you hard because you lose the first wave and then hide in your spawn and get camped.

If people didn't bring **** QP habits to FW this wouldn't happen.

[nehebkau]

The simple truth, as many have said in this thread, is that bads will hide in their dropzone. Anything you do to beef up the dropzone will not change that and just increase the occurrence of bads hiding in the DZ.

If you want to end spawn camping, you have to give people a safe place to spawn but force them to leave the spawn at some time. Anything else is WORSE than the current environment.

[50 50]

Hot drop from the drop ship as it flies overhead?

[Appogee]

50 50, on 01 July 2017 - 06:52 AM, said:

Hot drop from the drop ship as it flies overhead?

That's a great idea.

Dropship crosses the battlefield, you watch the minimap, you choose where to drop.

Edited by Appogee, 01 July 2017 - 06:57 AM.