121 replies to this topic

[J0anna]

Nathaniel Johns, on 23 June 2017 - 06:06 AM, said:

In the match maybe two minutes. I spot an enemy 800 meter's away. I'm with my whole
Team still. "INCOMING MISSILE" "Incoming MISSILE"

Stop there, This is the point where you need to make a decision. People can talk about AMS, radar derp, but what you need at that very moment is COVER. Where is the nearest cover and how can I get to it.

Now lets back that tape up. You should always be looking at the minimap and plotting your routes to maximize the use of cover until ,at least, the majority of the enemy team is spotted. Leave scouting to the lights and fast mediums, a heavy or an assault caught in the open is a prime target - so why would you offer yourself up? If you're taking multiple waves of LRM's the most likely reason is it's your fault. Are you under a UAV? Are you being spotted by an enemy light? Are you standing in the open? Good players don't get hit by multiple waves of LRM's because they are never far from cover. That's why you rarely see good players use them, they are too easy to avoid.

If I get killed by LRM's I either failed to kill or drive off what was spotting me or got caught out of position (too far from useful cover) and thus my fault (or it's the end of the game and I don't care).

It's not that hard, practice moving with the team, but knowing where the closest cover is and how to get there. You'll find LRM's are not very effective at all.

[ShoeKush]

Ced Riggs, on 23 June 2017 - 10:44 AM, said:

Everyone is entitled to play a suboptimal build. They have the choice, and no one can stop them from making that choice. Yet, these people have no argument to complain about "those twitch shooter kiddies" (paraphrasing), either. They chose their fate, just like anyone that doesn't use any LRM hard counters chose their fate. If someone insists on running a stock build made for a different battlefield, in a different ruleset, where gunnery was a roll and modifier, where piloting was a roll and modifier without realizing they'd be 5/5 or 5/6 rookies, then that's on them.

Now if a team complains that it has to carry those players, then that's their prerogative, too. Society governs itself. If someone decides to be a burden, rather than an asset, people will react in kind. No one is asking for inhuman feats. Just some personal responsibility and effort to be a functional member of a group experience. And a stock Catapult isn't it.

Ok every stop everything and buy only top tier mechs, retrofit them with top tier weapons and then git gud git gud git gud...[ad infinitum]

I find stock builds fun. It amuses me when my poor bedraggled *** can take out a person like you, because people like you suck.

They suck because they will use every exploit to gain an advantage.
They suck because they are always on the hunt for the next big balance shift
They suck because they severely limit the way this game can be played.
They suck because they regularly go seal clubbing running with others like them in solo.

They suck because they will discredit me using my K/D ratio even though I've been playing TT Battletech since I was 9 and have played all of the mechwarrior games ever released including The Crescent Hawk's Inception.

Finally, the only joy you must get in the world is by dismantling another person. I'll continue to run lore-based builds until the cows come home, because my joy comes from winning as an underdog, not beating a Camry with a Ferrari.

Edited by ShoeKush, 23 June 2017 - 11:04 AM.

[Appogee]

Mystere, on 23 June 2017 - 10:34 AM, said:

Are you seeing a noticeable improvement when taking those AMS skills?

As I never take AMS on anything I can't really say whether the skills make a difference LOL.

I can say though that a triple-AMS KitFox will bring down pretty much every missile in the air

[Brain Cancer]

Quote

Shared locks on LRMs is my pet peeve with them. Completely noob system.

In fact, why have sensor systems at all when almost anything is just point-and-shoot, am I right?

(Hint: In TT, you literally get all that target sharing even if it's so humble a unit as a squad of infantry hick militia with slingshots.)

[Medicine Man]

How come nobody is whining about how you can laser somebody from across the map and still do damage? How come that isn't an issue? It's just QQ all day long about LRMS but lasers but blow off components eventually at like 1500m.

[Ced Riggs]

Medicine Man, on 23 June 2017 - 12:09 PM, said:

Lasers but blow off components eventually at like 1500m.

You know that's incorrect.

[Brain Cancer]

Quote

lasers but blow off components eventually at like 1500m.

You realize at 1500m, even a Clan ERLL barely does damage and no other laser even hits? (And you'll do minimal damage with ERPPCs)

There's this thing called "damage reduction" going on.

[LowSubmarino]

Lrms are only effective against completly disoriented, nascarig, exposing, spread, super bad team play.

It is a good thing that they brutally annihilate such formations or careless play. Its a good thing that if you just wander about aimslessly you get shredded in nanoseconds. Theres got to be a lot of danger and risk involved or ppl never learn hehe.

Try to engage a good enemy team with direct fire weapons when you are lrm heavy.

They will directly counter that with no face time weapons and decimate your team.

Kill 3, 4 big mechs and then charge in screaming battle cries and you get terminated.

Lrms are one of the worst weapon systems in the game because they are only really effective, when you play 12 solo players with zero coordination and not even an understanding how powerful even a loose formation is or to move as a tream, reacting on enemy movement and especially terrain instead of just blindly wandering about.

If you play sc2, one of the first things you realize....if you do not wall up your base against an early ling rush....you are dead.

If you cry about early pool and early ling rush being op because you refuse to build a simple wall (in mwo terms, simply use terrain to your advantage, cover flanks and rear against spotters, use ecm, check sky for uav all the time and treat it as 5 kodiaks about to hammer you from the heaven) then its the players fault. Not lrms.

Lrms are fine.

In any semi good team they are a minor annoyance.

Ppl with semi good aim will hammer an lrm mech that stares at them triying to get a lock.

Good lights specifically and immediatly check for lrm boats falling behind team and take them out immdiatly.

Good ecm users will instantly provide cover for those slower assaults and heavies that fight at the front line. Good snipers specifically suppress lrm mechs or their spotters or other snipers.

Ppl always complain about snipers but id rather have one good mobile sniper than 3 okayish brawlers.

Most mwo players dont enjoy the more intricate aspects of how to play smartly, anticipate movement, cover each other.

One time a light with ecm saw that I was in a great position constantly firing and a viper almost cored me from behind. I only called for help once and he already knew what was going on and simply covered me and I was able to constantly suppress a lot of their big firepower mechs. Most ppl dont do that.

When Im in my anti light hunter shadowcat, I cover the biggest mechs with ecm and against lights.

Tons of ppl I see just run around dying affter 1 min with valuable ecm mechs.

Few games ago the entire team fights at tourmaline at the center around the elevated ridge only meters away from the entire enemy team.

The assault lance chose to stay 300 meters away out of vision. Three assaults. I see 2 lights heading their way and they get pinned down. We lloose.

The other teams assaults where right there. With their team. Our assaults hat an eternity to just join the rest of the team instead taking pot shots from some weird angle and just standing somewhere.

Its not LRms. Really not. If you dont see that its really terrible gameplay that makes heavy lrmming possible in the first place then watch some good competitive teams.

They hardly ever bring a lot of lrms. It makes you very vulnerable to gauss, even lasers, ppcs or explosive rushes from advantageous terrain. Good teams are almost always covered by ecm in the frontline. You wont just find single, uncovered, un-ecmd targest on open ground. Youd hardly ever get a solid lock. And if you do, that means your entire team is engaged in a brawl and if they are lrm heavy theyll get shredded.

Dont nerf Lrms. They are perfectly okay.

Double gauss in a night gyr with clan tech is a kazillion times more op than 1000000000000000000 lrms could ever hope to be.

[PhoenixFire55]

Ced Riggs, on 23 June 2017 - 07:53 AM, said:

Those same experts advocate against AMS nodes on AMS capable mechs, and rather take shock absorbance. And that's with MRMs and ATMs knocking at the door. I am pretty certain those tunes will change down the road.

Rocks, walls and buildings work much better against any kind of missiles than those AMS nodes. On the contrary, there is nothing apart from skill nodes that make your mech faster, more agile or make your weapons generate less heat or have more range. This isn't even a question that you should avoid AMS nodes wherever possible.

As for SRMs, MRMs and AMS, then all I can say is that just like AMS is useless against SRMs even with all the nodes, it will be likewise useless against MRMs and most likely ATMs. The only actual danger coming from SRMs is due to the fact that they are easily boated. I.e. you hardly ever care about a mech with 1-2 SRM launchers anyway, and when an SRM30+ mech comes to wreck your face it will regardless of how much you invest into AMS, since the sheer amount of missiles in the volley will easily overpower it. Plus, the firing distances are usually ~100m, thus the time to shoot them down is even less.

LRMs are the same. Clan LRM boats are hardly even a little bit of a threat if you have a couple working AMS, since they practically chain-fire their missiles even when they alpha strike, thus giving AMS plenty of time to shoot down most. IS LRM boats on the other hand alpha one big blob of LRMs, which usually is capable of breaching even the heaviest AMS protection.

Needless to say, nothing changes on that regard with MRMs. I very much doubt that there will be any mechs with 1 MRM launcher that can pose any threat. Heavy MRM boats on the other hand will, and likewise the amount of missiles in the alpha will be more than enough to overload your AMS.

[CFC Conky]

Hello all,

When I first started playing a couple of months ago, I would be all 'how the #$%^! do I get out from under all these @#$%^! lrms?!' After a while they weren't so much of a problem, mainly because I learned to use cover more effectively. When the new skill tree dropped, I was getting whacked again, but now lrms, while still a nuisance, are not the threat they were, again I suppose because I adapted.

To make a long story boring, I take ams when I can but the biggest factor for me is using cover. I try to maximize my speed potential through engine size, and always try to run from cover to cover (sometimes terrain, sometimes an ecm mech). Lrms los-fired from close range i.e. 300m-500m are another story and ams is your friend here, but I'm no longer overly concerned about long-range indirect fire.

Every now and then I still get caught out in the open and pay dearly for it, especially if I get focus lrmed, but then that's my fault, not the weapons'.

Good hunting,
CFC Conky

Edited by CFC Conky, 23 June 2017 - 12:41 PM.

[PhoenixFire55]

Mister Blastman, on 23 June 2017 - 08:08 AM, said:

I'm glad I'm not playing anymore. I do miss the game. But I refuse to condone asinine balance decisions.

You are missing out. If anything farming potatoes is easier than ever ... lol

Mystere, on 23 June 2017 - 10:01 AM, said:

I said "lore-friendly" for a reason. Should people be banned for using stock builds?

14 tons of ammo on Lurm-Cat like people do in MWO can hardly be considered "stock" ya know. If they'd bring 5-6 tons and thus were actually forced to care when and at what they are firing instead of just spamming at everything from behind hills ...

Edited by PhoenixFire55, 23 June 2017 - 12:43 PM.

[PhoenixFire55]

Medicine Man, on 23 June 2017 - 12:09 PM, said:

How come nobody is whining about how you can laser somebody from across the map and still do damage? How come that isn't an issue? It's just QQ all day long about LRMS but lasers but blow off components eventually at like 1500m.

Ah, the steering wheel underhive strikes again. FYI there isn't a single laser that does damage at 1500m. Not without range nodes. And even with maxed out range tree, the longest of them all Clan ERLL would do like 0.5 damage per shot.

[Novakaine]

And here we go again.
Oddly enough I've seen more clan lurms of late than IS builds.
Too funny.
Clan lurm boats, maybe those T4 and T5 taters are finally moving on.

[AphexTwin11]

cazidin, on 23 June 2017 - 07:13 AM, said:

If only we had a system, a kind of... Anti Missile System that was designed to effectively counter LRM spam. Something that some mechs could bring into the battlefield without investing their points into... maybe a... Radar Depriving skill? No. A Radar Deprivation skill that removes all locks and target info should they retreat to the safety of nearby cover. Unfortunately and to the best of my knowledge no such equipment or skills exist and thus; LRMs are free to rain down upon us and completely obliterate our CTs with the precision of a Gauss Rifle.

9.65/10 would read again

kek

Edited by AphexTwin11, 23 June 2017 - 12:49 PM.

[Monkey Lover]

Brain Cancer, on 23 June 2017 - 12:24 PM, said:

You realize at 1500m, even a Clan ERLL barely does damage and no other laser even hits? (And you'll do minimal damage with ERPPCs)

There's this thing called "damage reduction" going on.

But can somehow do full crits to ammo/weapons because it brushed over your mech even at max range. This is another one of the systems I would like to see updates.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 23 June 2017 - 12:54 PM.

[Brain Cancer]

Quote

14 tons of ammo on Lurm-Cat like people do in MWO can hardly be considered "stock" ya know. If they'd bring 5-6 tons and thus were actually forced to care when and at what they are firing instead of just spamming at everything from behind hills ...

Spamming LRMs on someone else's lock is a potato tactic that generally only kills other potatoes. After all, not only do you have to line up the shot, but the lock can and will break at any time.

Carrying 14 tons of ammo is because unlike TT, you have twice the armor + structure buffs and generally far more targets to shoot at. It's a common problem for all ammo using weapons in MWO, only because LRMs get so many counters, fire slow enough to actually outrun the missiles if fired from long range, and spread damage, they need even more to compensate. Sort of.

[Brain Cancer]

Quote

But can somehow do full crits to ammo/weapons because it brushed over your mech even at max range. This is another one of the systems I would like to see updates.

Wat. So what you're saying is if someone hits me with an ERPPC at 1500m, it'll still deal 10 damage to equipment?

Really? That's just wrong.

[Mystere]

Ced Riggs, on 23 June 2017 - 10:44 AM, said:

Society governs itself.

Please refrain from using this sentence ever again. You're going to get me really started!

[cazidin]

Mystere, on 23 June 2017 - 01:29 PM, said:

Please refrain from using this sentence ever again. You're going to get me really started!

Hey, Mystere.

Society governs itself.

[Mystere]

PhoenixFire55, on 23 June 2017 - 12:46 PM, said:

Ah, the steering wheel underhive strikes again. FYI there isn't a single laser that does damage at 1500m. Not without range nodes. And even with maxed out range tree, the longest of them all Clan ERLL would do like 0.5 damage per shot.

It's funny how you can insult someone while at the same time contradict yourself. <smh>