228 replies to this topic

[Sir Helbrecht]

Genesis23, on 29 June 2017 - 02:31 AM, said:

they would be insanely op without minimum range. imagine a storm crow loaded up with those, it would be even worse than with the streaks

Quote

[color=#000000]The High Explosive version has a much shorter range since it trades the booster for increased power. This removes the minimum range and allows the missile to deal three points of damage.[/color]

http://www.sarna.net...actical_Missile

Well, let there be a minimum distance, but not 180 meters. It's just too much. 50-90, it would be just right. If the PGI can not make a change of ammunition.

P.S.Clans still OP? nothing changes heh

[Bent Tin Can]

Ok, since i've began testing about a hour ago i can't be more specific - BUT no matter if you have S-SRM, SRM or LRM, Artemis Guidance is still functioning, but not for MRM which has a wider spread and seem or more like are more useless over distances - suggest MRM+Artemis available.

Further nice work on the RAC, puzzles me thou, that while using one RAC keeps the heat at the actual percentage, while 2+ RAC drasticly shoots the heat up intensively. I'd say there are some adjustments to be made...

[Rogue Jedi]

I am quite liking most of the new weapons, my Medusa got a nice upgrade with 6 MiPL and 4 HMG,
4 HML makes the Mist Lynx seem somewhat overpowered.
The LAMS seems to work well,
The RAC5 seems somewhat overpowered with its about 30 shots before jaming, but heat seriously punishes if trying to take more than 2.
the ER Lasers for IS feel useful,
The AS7-D-DC with stealth armor does not feel as OP as I was expecting (a very good thing)
the LFE is helpful for getting extra tonage for all my standard engine builds.
I am quite liking the Light and Snub Nosed PPCs but have yet to try the Heavy.

the only system I have tried which I did not like was ATM, having the (not advertised) 180m minimum range and having them lock on makes them a major downgrade to SRMs at short range because you cannot aim the shots, and the auto lock seems way too fast to dumb fire them, while they do not feel like much of an upgrade to cLRMs despite the increased damage up close but that could just be my persional preferance.

[AlphaPrime42]

So far I am rather impressed with the weapons tech.

Pro's:

LIght Fusion has saved a lot of IS mechs for damn sure. Good job there PGI giving us this engine for the game.

Light ferro is surprisingly useful. I honestly felt it wouldn't be, but I am glad I was wrong.

Stealth armor is gonna be fun and tricky to use. I do think that for potential accidental team kills that there should be a way for your team to be able to somewhat identify that your with your team.

MRM's are a nice weapon type. I personally feel that they do not need there spread reduced as a lot have said. This weapon whether it be 10's, 20's, 30's, or 40's are pretty damn op and the spread helps keep that in check.

ER's meds and small's are so welcomed for IS mechs.

Micro pulse lasers are pretty fun.

Snub-nose ppc's are pretty fun and a nice addition. The optimal range could maybe be 300 or 320.

Light ppc's are a nice addition as well.

Heavy ppc's are fun once you figure it out. I do feel there needs to be a description added to say they do spread damage.

Heavy Gauss is pretty damn powerful (which it should be). I do feel that the optimal range could be increased just a bit. I say 200 or 220 would be fine.

Con's:

Heavy laser's need some refining at least for there duration. Not a big drop but enough to make them a little more useful. As it stands the damage means nothing if your spending to much time facing the enemy while firing.

Rac's are a nice addition however there is some bugs with the heat gen on these weapons. The spin up time doesn't bother me that much but it could maybe be increased a bit before it out right hits the red for jamming.

Laser AMS has some bugs with it's heat gen as well.

Light Gauss feels a little underwhelming. Maybe you could make the stock cooldown time 4 instead of 5 considering it does do less damage then it's larger counter parts.

Atm's are interesting and I do feel they are powerful. Only problem I find with them is the minimum range being 180, I get why they are like this because at point blank Atm12's would be devastating. I feel that different ammo types (which is how this weapon system worked) would have been nice and maybe that is something that can be looked at in the future.

Heavy machine guns are fun no doubt, but dear lord at the rate they fire and them doing 1.5 damage and only weighting 1 ton is just way to overpowered. I feel the rate of fire needs to be throttled back just a bit. Yes I get they have a small optimal range but in many cases that does not matter for a mech that is fast and can boat a lot of them.

IS UAC20's have a bug that gives you only 3 shots per ton instead of 7 which is displayed.

Final thoughts:

As I said I am impressed, this new tech will most definitely refresh the game for variety. I am really looking forward to the release on the 18th July.

Edited by AlphaPrime42, 30 June 2017 - 12:37 AM.

[Bud Crue]

I gotta admit, that the level of mediocrity of the new tech gives me a lot of hope. Well done PGI. I mean that with all sincerity. I know things will get tweaked and changed and you will likely stumble into inadvertently making one or more new tech aspects OP (at least momentarily), but the fact that most, if not all of the new tech really doesn't scream "OMG THE NEW META IS HERE AND IT IS ALL _____ ALL THE TIME!" gives me hope that you are actually starting to pay attention to your own game and how it works.
So a sincere congrats on a job well done...at least in that regard.

Now then...

-Ahem-

Fix the god damn heat on the RACs, extend the effective range of the HGauss to at least 250, make the LGauss a higher velocity weapon or really what's the point, drop the damage if necessary on the Heavy Lasers but no matter what you gotta drop those beam durations down to a usable level, fix the tube count issue with rockets...if necessary put a limit on the number of rocket launchers that mechs can carry per class, drop the number of crits on the IS lbx20, otherwise what is already a second class weapon (LBX after all) will simply not get used.

I'm sure I'll have other suggestions for you as I test, but those are for starters. But again, overall, this mess of mediocrity truly does give me hope that you aren't just changing things for the sake of change so as to milk the skills tree as a cbill sink, nor simply running out the clock until MW5. It gives me hope that you still want MWO to be a viable product and not just a game of three card meta monty (where's the meta, where's the best quirks this month, don't take your eyes off the quirks, where's the meta gonna land...). I for one certainly appreciate that.

[Draglock]

The way ATM's are right now they're pretty much useless, I think you need to take off the minimum range but make it so it doesn't lock on under 180. In testing the only time you can get a hit on something as if you're close enough to see the mech because of the arc and they can close the distance to fast to get no damage at all. The whole point of ATMs where do have the ability to use it as SRM or LRM. p.s They are way to hot as well.

Edited by Draglock, 29 June 2017 - 05:09 AM.

[Commander James Raynor]

Ok, so here are my thoughts:
Light machineguns are useless, but I doubt they can be fixed. Having less damage than the regular machineguns makes them automatically useless.

The heavy and SN PPC are just bad. No reason to take them over anything. They need to lower the heat on both to make up for the weight and range.

Heavy lasers durations make them useless. No reason to take any of them, and the heat on the HLL makes it more than useless. If necesary, drop the damage (and heat, acordingly) of the medium and large, but the duration NEEDS do be droped.

For all that is good, do NOT increase the Heavy Gauss range. It has 25 damage for 2 heat, making it so that EVERY mech with the tonnage and the ballistic hardpoint in the torso will take it. As it is, it can still do heavy damage at medium ranges, and it's a win button when at close range. It being very powerful is not a problem, since it answers the question of "why use assault mechs when they cost so much tonnage and can't handle for their life after the engine desync", but making them so powerful that the game gravitates around it would just be a bad move.

The minimum range on the ATM is harsh, but it needs to be there. When at the optimal range, it inflicts VERY high damage for the tonnage and heat. If you make them any better, they'd be OP. Don't change them.

MRM's spread is fine. You lose a lot of the damage, but it needs to account for the increased damage and range over the SRM's. Make them any tighter and you burry the SRM's.

[Sky Hawk]

Lol... if anyone want to try a stupid new fun-build.. just try the full-skilled 6 x L-PPC Stalker.. (in chainfire)... lol...

Edited by Sky Hawk, 29 June 2017 - 05:04 AM.

[StormDll]

Eah, MRM is fine. 100+ dmg alfa 0 range - norm. ATM 30-40 alfa - imba, need 180 nim range. Eah...

[Dee Eight]

STEEL JUSTICE, on 28 June 2017 - 11:53 PM, said:

1) Laser AMS is generates alot heat.

2)Heavy Gauss Rifle range 180m range is too low.

3)Sub-Nose 270m range and 6 tons i dont see any reason to use this gun i will prefer the normal ppc.Plz make the range 350m on Sub-Nose.

4)AC vs LB ballistics the LB Should have -1 ton and -1slot VS the AC Versions.

1. That should have been obvious to everyone ahead of time.

2. That's actually exactly the correct range to the CBT values. That's the trade-off for a 25 pin point damage weapon. Be thankful they didn't also assign the 120 meter minimum range to them.

3. Again they assigned exactly the CBT values to the snub-nosed PPC aside from making the max range too long (its supposed to be identical to a large laser).

4. No they shouldn't. Only the LB-10X had such features in the CBT values. At this point in the game timeline, its only been 30 years since LB10s were recovered technology and 10 since they developed the other sizes at all in the inner sphere. But the LB10s were originally developed in 2595 and were in service for nearly 200 years before the exodus happened and then the succession wars began. As such there hasn't been enough game timeline to develop actually lightened and more compact versons of the LB2/5/20 sizes as was the case with the LB10s.

ALSO....you cannot -1 crit slot a weapon that only has ONE crit slot to begin with....namely the AC/2 size autocannon. Even Clan LB-2Xs were bulkier than standard AC/2s...and LB-5Xs were the same 4 crits as a standard AC/5. The clan versions were only improved in weight for those two sizes.

A year after the end of the civil war timeline jump (in 3068), House Davion would field the light autocannon series in 2 and 5 ratings which actually were lighter than standard autocannons (with the LAC/5 being both lighter and more compact than an AC/5), at the cost of some maximum range.

Edited by Dee Eight, 29 June 2017 - 05:54 AM.

[Dee Eight]

Pepito Sbazzeguti, on 29 June 2017 - 12:18 AM, said:

Can anybody tell me some Light Fusion ton weight, I've no free space to install PTS..
250-275-300-325-350 and 400 rate engine tons value would be nice just to have an idea of the weight.

Thanks.

Smurfy has the values I believe, but essentially it'll be splitting the difference between standard engines and XLs. Since MWO tracks the free heat sinks, gyro and cockpit weights in with the engine weights...and those are constant for each rating regardless of tech, the actual differences in the weights for a given version of the same rating is the engine itself. A standard 325 at 30.5 tons vs an XL at 19 tons comes down to the 11.5 ton difference between the standard engine alone (23.5 tons) and the XL size (12 tons). A LFE 325 is 5.5 tons lighter than a standard 325.

[Dee Eight]

Oberost, on 29 June 2017 - 01:17 AM, said:

Really?

So you lose a torso and gets a heat penalty and a speed penalty too?

I mean, the LFE just saves you a 25% weight instead of the 50% that a Clan XL do and PGI gave it the same penalty?

Really?

YES REALLY. Deal with it. That's the trade-off for not dying from a side torso loss. Also in this game, where they include the cockpit/gyro/free heatsinks into the engine weight math... its not actually a 50% drop in weight. A standard 325 as I said above is 30.5 tons where an XL 325 is 19 tons. The engine itself might be half the weight, but since our engine weights include those other parts...well...you do the math.

[Dee Eight]

Sir Helbrecht, on 29 June 2017 - 02:19 AM, said:

Advanced Tactical Missile : 180 meter minimum range. I hope this is a bad joke...
Why 180? Why not 0 or 50? Now these are bad cLRM.

But medium-range missiles were excellent.

In the CBT rules the ATM's all had a 120 minimum, and a 450 meter MAXIMUm.

[Simulacrum]

I just had few time to do some tests but I've to say you did a really good job, PGI!
The bugs I discovered where mentioned in the posts above so I've only some first thoughts.

I really fear the heavy machine guns doing too much damage for their tonnage and null heat. Thats the only real problem I see after the first look.
Maybe you should give the light Gauss a better optimal range as they are designed as a ER pinpoint weapon and you've no added value compared to the standard Gauss if your damage drops too fast too insignificance at higher range.
The ATM could bring a new missile spam era as most heavy and assault 'Mechs of the IS still are gonna be pretty slow. But we'll see.

The other new weapons arent overpowered and will find their niche. Well done.

[UrbanTarget]

Simulacrum, on 29 June 2017 - 06:15 AM, said:

I just had few time to do some tests but I've to say you did a really good job, PGI!
The bugs I discovered where mentioned in the posts above so I've only some first thoughts.

I really fear the heavy machine guns doing too much damage for their tonnage and null heat. Thats the only real problem I see after the first look.
Maybe you should give the light Gauss a better optimal range as they are designed as a ER pinpoint weapon and you've no added value compared to the standard Gauss if your damage drops too fast too insignificance at higher range.
The ATM could bring a new missile spam era as most heavy and assault 'Mechs of the IS still are gonna be pretty slow. But we'll see.

The other new weapons arent overpowered and will find their niche. Well done.

Was drilling an assault in the back with 7 HMG on a shadowcat... didn't seem to eat armor as faster than normal MG...

[Dee Eight]

Of course the moment I try to QP in the PTS, instant file corruption...

[Tomo Sukesada]

While stealth armor active you can't tell friend from foe and vice versa. This leads to inadvertent friendly fire in both directions which ends up being very frustrating..

Please allow friendlies to see you are a friendly, my own team is constantly shooting me. Nobody will use stealth armor with this drawback.

Edited by Tomo Sukesada, 29 June 2017 - 07:50 AM.

[Zergling]

Working on mathing out Clan Micro and Heavy Lasers, for the purpose of exactly what tweaks they need to be useful weapons.

[McHoshi]

Oberost, on 29 June 2017 - 01:17 AM, said:

Really?

So you lose a torso and gets a heat penalty and a speed penalty too?

I mean, the LFE just saves you a 25% weight instead of the 50% that a Clan XL do and PGI gave it the same penalty?

Really?

You wanted the clans to have that Penalty - Now live with dat exactly the same Penalty!

[process]

Very interesting to test out all these new weapons.

• LFE, light ferro, 1/2 ton CAP are solid improvements
  
• LMG and HMG are both a lot of fun, but you'll still probably want to run at least 4 at a time.
  
• MRM seem pretty okay. SRMs are still more effective at close range, as they should be. I think MRMs would do well to stream more with tighter spread to make them more useful at mid range, perhaps with increased velocity. The high damage potential should come with a higher skill cap, and they need to be differentiated from SRMs better.
  
• Heavy lasers, lol no. I was expecting short range lasers with high heat, high damage, and reasonable burn time. Maybe that was the wrong premise, but the duration kills all of these. I get PGI is probably factoring in the skill tree duration.
  
• ATMs will take some getting used to. The minimum range is tricky since the optimal damage is a mere 90m above zero damage, but the damage/weight not insignificant.
  
• lol rocket launchers. I suppose massing RL10s could work, but I'm inclined to think once you're above a few tons the weight is better spent on other things.
  
• IS versions of Clan weapon I'm not keen on, I actually prefer standard IS lasers and autocannons.
  
• Light Gauss should probably do 1-2 more damage. Heavy Gauss is spooky to face up close, but its range, size and weight will keep it from being too popular. AC20 still does it better.
  
• Rotaries are a lot of fun, effectiveness TBD. I wish ultra ACs had a similar jam mechanic, perhaps with a much shorter jam meter.
  
• Light PPCs feel anemic, even paired. Heavy PPCs probably shouldn't have damage spread. Snub nose is a solid alternate to normal PPCs.

Edited by process, 29 June 2017 - 08:12 AM.