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Stealth Armor


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#1 MayoSkin

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 02:59 PM

from what i've seen it causes friendlies to not see your blue tag and name which led to a lot of friendly fire on our side, not sure if it is working as intended.

#2 Kaptain

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 04:42 PM

That silly if true. It shouldn't jam IFF for your own team that's just dumb.

#3 RAM

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 07:09 PM

View PostAdamSeal, on 28 June 2017 - 02:59 PM, said:

from what i've seen it causes friendlies to not see your blue tag and name

View PostKaptain, on 28 June 2017 - 04:42 PM, said:

It shouldn't jam IFF for your own team

Given that Stealth Armour inflicts an ECM field on the using unit, removal of Friendly IFF is an accurate implementation.


RAM
ELH

#4 Tesunie

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 08:05 PM

View PostAdamSeal, on 28 June 2017 - 02:59 PM, said:

from what i've seen it causes friendlies to not see your blue tag and name which led to a lot of friendly fire on our side, not sure if it is working as intended.


It shouldn't be doing that... Posted Image

If your IFF is always on, even when you are shut down, than not even Stealth Armor should be able to turn off your IFF to teammates.

#5 MightyBolamite

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 08:16 PM

I noticed that Stealth Armor (on my machine and active) was reducing my sensor range. Is it supposed to do that? I don't remember reading anything like that in the notes.

#6 Wintersdark

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 08:16 PM

View PostRAM, on 28 June 2017 - 07:09 PM, said:

Given that Stealth Armour inflicts an ECM field on the using unit, removal of Friendly IFF is an accurate implementation.


RAM
ELH

"realistic" or not, it's a dumb implementation that severely nerfs an already "meh" item.

#7 Tesunie

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 08:19 PM

View PostWintersdark, on 28 June 2017 - 08:16 PM, said:

"realistic" or not, it's a dumb implementation that severely nerfs an already "meh" item.


Recall when ECM itself use to do that? Cause so much FF that PGI took that ability away from it. It would be foolish to do that again...

(ECM use to also disable the in game chat if you where under it's influence. That also was removed, as PGI learned that people on a 3rd party chat program bypassed it.)

#8 Brain Cancer

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 08:39 PM

That's actually a drawback for Stealth Armor. It's treated as being in a hostile ECM field when active. Shutting down it's IFF is appropriate, IMHO. You want to be a perfect ninja, learn to hide from your friends as well.

#9 Wintersdark

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 08:43 PM

View PostTesunie, on 28 June 2017 - 08:19 PM, said:


Recall when ECM itself use to do that? Cause so much FF that PGI took that ability away from it. It would be foolish to do that again...

(ECM use to also disable the in game chat if you where under it's influence. That also was removed, as PGI learned that people on a 3rd party chat program bypassed it.)

Yup. It was utterly terrible then too.

One of those things that may sound good but is an awful idea.



That is, incidentally, the fundamental reason why I hate the Heavy Lasers so much.

Long durations lead to unintentional FF, because when your beam is burning for that long, it's REALLY hard to avoid it in a furball brawl.

I mean, the other aspects of duration have a bigger impact on balance (damage spread, Time On Target, etc) but THAT reason - the FF reason - is what makes them un-fun and severely degrades them in gameplay. Without that, they could at least be decent for regular midrange player use... But with that? They're extra bad for poorer players (who'll already have more FF), *and* they're bad for better players who'll just pick more effective weapons.

View PostBrain Cancer, on 28 June 2017 - 08:39 PM, said:

That's actually a drawback for Stealth Armor. It's treated as being in a hostile ECM field when active. Shutting down it's IFF is appropriate, IMHO. You want to be a perfect ninja, learn to hide from your friends as well.


See, you're looking at this from a "What Seems Realistic" view, not "What makes a good game".

The benefit of Stealth Armor is actually very minor in practice. Having friendlies who round a corner and see you open up on you is a huge disadvantage. Stealth Armor would have to be WAY better for it to be balanced like that.

#10 Brain Cancer

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 08:47 PM

Considering what we're already seeing with things like stealth + rocket launcher "Suicide Special" combos (the B33f has demonstrated this to good effect on Javelins), I have no problem with something that makes you functionally invisible becoming a FF risk.

You want to have maximum stealth, then deal with potato friendly fire or make sure you're REALLY distinctive. Not that potatoes will care, but at least you can say something like "DON'T KILL THE GUY WITH THE NINJA DECALS!"

#11 Tesunie

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 08:48 PM

View PostWintersdark, on 28 June 2017 - 08:43 PM, said:

See, you're looking at this from a "What Seems Realistic" view, not "What makes a good game".

The benefit of Stealth Armor is actually very minor in practice. Having friendlies who round a corner and see you open up on you is a huge disadvantage. Stealth Armor would have to be WAY better for it to be balanced like that.


Not to mention, seen as this game draws many rules from TT, Stealth armor doesn't make your teammates suddenly have a "chance of shooting that mech". It should never disable the IFF going off that.

It was decided that disabling friendly IFF markers was a poor game play mechanic. I'm going to stand by that here as well. It was bad then, it's bad now, especially when you consider teammates now receive penalties for FF, and heaven forbid if it ended up being a TK... That's a penalty mark right there. Get enough of them, and you could be temp banned from the game... Posted Image

#12 Wintersdark

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 09:03 PM

View PostBrain Cancer, on 28 June 2017 - 08:47 PM, said:

Considering what we're already seeing with things like stealth + rocket launcher "Suicide Special" combos (the B33f has demonstrated this to good effect on Javelins), I have no problem with something that makes you functionally invisible becoming a FF risk.

You want to have maximum stealth, then deal with potato friendly fire or make sure you're REALLY distinctive. Not that potatoes will care, but at least you can say something like "DON'T KILL THE GUY WITH THE NINJA DECALS!"
Bad gameplay. As Tesunie says above, friendlies are penalised for damaging or killing you, included temp bans.

Yes, it's somewhat powerful when used in a suicide run sort of way, but so is a Direstar that's just powered down; you can't use a stupid gimmick build that's actually bad as a balancing point.

After all, how many 9ppc Direstar do you see in practice actually contributing meaningfully to matches? But they can one-shot practically anything... And actually contribute usefully (if unimpressively) before that.


It's bad gameplay, it makes a fairly poor item worse. You're not functionally invisible, either: anybody with eyeballs can see you just fine.

#13 Tesunie

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 09:20 PM

View PostWintersdark, on 28 June 2017 - 09:03 PM, said:

You're not functionally invisible, either: anybody with eyeballs can see you just fine.


Like we've been doing since ECM first came out before it was reduced in power (finally).

Stealth armor is not going to be worth taking if the risk is FF. It will only hurt the user, as well as whatever teammate confuses them for an enemy, and then it hurts the whole team. Game mechanics that hurt fellow teammates and can result in bans are never good things... Posted Image

#14 Mike Barnes

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Posted 28 June 2017 - 11:08 PM

View PostWintersdark, on 28 June 2017 - 09:03 PM, said:



It's bad gameplay, it makes a fairly poor item worse. You're not functionally invisible, either: anybody with eyeballs can see you just fine.


The new meta will be painting mechs with actual camoflauge. The Gillihe has a head start.

#15 Nema Nabojiv

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Posted 29 June 2017 - 12:35 AM

Haven't chance to use stealth myself, but yesterday I chased pirate bane in stealth mode and it was kinda bad. The guy had his stealth activated like 90% of time and it seems kinda OP to me.


I feel it would be ok if stealth work like MASC with short bursts of invisibility and damage to internals when you overuse it

oh, and working IFFs of course because less chaos

Edited by Nema Nabojiv, 29 June 2017 - 12:36 AM.


#16 Carrioncrows

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Posted 29 June 2017 - 01:17 AM

The drawbacks for using stealth are massive.

The benefits...few and far between.

Like we actually need to make ECM mechs better to begin with. Far better off with Null-sig armor..so everyone can have ECM for a limited time.

#17 LordNothing

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Posted 29 June 2017 - 02:55 AM

also is using it supposed to kill your sensors? like i switch it on and my team disappears from radar.

the fact that you cant tell what team a stealthed mech is on kind of sucks. this is going to lead to a lot of friendly fire incidents, and people are going to complain about getting team killed, and people getting punished for it are going to complain that its not fair. its just a salt mine waiting to happen. nip it in the butt now.

Edited by LordNothing, 29 June 2017 - 02:56 AM.


#18 MasterBurte

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Posted 29 June 2017 - 04:37 AM

I think it's good that the IFF is deactivated for friendly teammates. Makes the game more immersive and people have to actual whatch out who they are shooting. If i use stealth armor, i will simply tell my teammates that they have to watch out for me. Maybe telling them my position from time to time.

#19 Stefka Kerensky

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Posted 29 June 2017 - 04:51 AM

Stealh armor is working as intended.

If teamates are morons, it's not Stealth armor's fault.

#20 ScrubLord1

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Posted 29 June 2017 - 04:55 AM

I fired an MRM 80 salvo into a stealthed raven that came running at me as I just crested the HPG platform. It turns out he was on my team. There is zero indication to differentiate friendlies from enemies. Stealth armor should not hide friendlies from the HUD or radar.

Edited by ScrubLord1, 29 June 2017 - 04:58 AM.






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