56 replies to this topic

[Reno Blade]

Hi all,

Just a quick poll if you would rather buff splash, heat, velocity or cooldown.
Current HPPC: 12dmg + 3 splash (1.5 / 1.5), 14.5heat, 4s cooldown, 1200m/s velocity.

Keep in mind the balance to all other PPCs.

Options:

• 10% less heat = 13.05 heat
  
• 15% less heat =12.325 heat
  
• 20% less heat, but 10% less velocity = 11.6 heat, 1080m/s velocity
  
• 25% less heat, but no more splash = 10.875 heat, 12dmg + 0 splash
  
• 1 more direct damage and 1 more splash = 13 dmg + 4 splash (2.0/2.0)
  
• 2 more direct damage, but 1 less splash = 14 dmg + 2 splash (1.0/1.0)
  
• 2 more direct damage, but 1.5 more heat = 14 dmg + 3 splash (1.5/1.5), 16 heat
  
• 3 more direct damage, no splash, but 1.5 more heat and 10% less velocity = 15dmg +0 splash, 16 heat, 4s cd, 1080m/s velocity
  
• 3 more direct damage, no splash, but 2.5 more heat and 50% more cooldown = 15dmg +0 splash, 17 heat, 6s cd
  
• No change

Edit:
My take on energy is much more radical, so just for reference what I would do, check this table and my signature.

Spoiler

PPC / LPPC


ERPPC / SNPPC


CERPPC / HPPC


PPCs are great for mid-long range and have 0 dmg min range
LPPCs have constant ratio and 0 dmg min range (so they are less efficient on mid-long range)
ERPPCs have highest direct damage (100%) on long-extreme only and have high splash on shorter range
CERPPCs is using increasing direct damage, but has good averages
HPPCs have some splash at min range, but get high direct damage overall (more than combinations of other types)
SNPPCs start with high direct damage but drop off quickly and also have a shorter range and damage drop

Edited by Reno Blade, 29 June 2017 - 03:53 AM.

[TheArisen]

There needs to be a remove splash option without adding heat, cooldown or losing velocity. This would make it barely worthwhile as it needs 8, 3 slot dhs to cool per Hppc. This makes it effectively an 18 ton weapon

Edited by TheArisen, 29 June 2017 - 02:43 AM.

[LordNothing]

i only ran the hppc once. i think i need a few more runs to make up my mind about it.

[phoboskomboa]

Yeah, it doesn't need to be balanced. It needs to be buffed. I've run it in a half dozen mechs today. The only situation I've found it useful in at all was replacing what was a too hot 2 ppc build in the Phoenix Hawk. And even then, it's just making a weak build a little less weak.

[Reno Blade]

Compare HPPC also to PPC + LPPC or 3x LPPC.
PPC (10dmg, 9.5heat) +LPPC(5dmg/5heat) is better because it does not "waste" damage on the splash, right?
3x LPPC has GHeat so it goes over 16heat already.

So HPPC should have some advantage without making that PPC+LPPC combo useless.
Less heat would fit the overall MWO schema.
e.g. LRM20 has less heat than 4x LRM5 for the same damage (but less dps, due to cd).
Going by that, it might be the most logical step to reduce heat by 2-3heat.

[MustrumRidcully]

We already have a lot of weapons that fire slower the heavier their type gets.

Maybe PPCs should do the opposite?

Make the HPPC deal only 10 damage and Standard PPC heat, but have it at twice the rate of fire as the regular PPC.
Light PPCs could also deal more damage than now, and have a lower rate of fire than the regular PPC.

This would make them feel quite distinct from each other. Light PPCs increased range and low rate of fire would make them good sniper weapons (especially on mechs that can't carry PPCs or ER PPCs as easily), but not ideal for sustained engagements. The Heavy PPC would be indeed a brawler weapon and 10 damage is still pretty decent pinpoint damage for that.

[Mister Blastman]

NONE OF THE ABOVE.

15 points pinpoint damage, same heat.

[Kaptain]

Mister Blastman, on 29 June 2017 - 07:20 AM, said:

NONE OF THE ABOVE.

15 points pinpoint damage, same heat.

Agreed. Did not vote as the most popular option is not offered.

[LennStar]

15 points too. It has the weight to get that.

[Y E O N N E]

My vote is 15 pinpoint, 15 heat, and more cool-down. Start at 5 seconds. Leave the velocity alone.

Since this is not on the list...

[Cato Zilks]

Your poll sucks. 15 damage for the same heat as a Clan ERPPC (14). Or boost the c-erppc to 14.5. IS is paying double crit space and almost double weight, they should at least get an advantage in pinpoint damage.

[Top Leliel]

Mister Blastman, on 29 June 2017 - 07:20 AM, said:

NONE OF THE ABOVE.

15 points pinpoint damage, same heat.

Repeat after me:

15 POINTS PINPOINT DAMAGE, SAME HEAT

[Alex Morgaine]

15/15 for 10/4!

[Toddasaurus]

According to Sarna.net, the hppc is supposed to be exactly the same as the cERPPC, but heavier. That said, it should have the same damage, heat, cooldown and velocity - as a minimum. I don't think that's asking much of PGI. I appreciate PGI's effort of the slightly increased pinpoint and lower splash compared to clan. Even so, I want it to be all 15 pinpoint, but I know PGI won't do that. So please, PGI, AT LEAST make everything else equal to cERPPCs. Come on.

[needforsleep]

The HPPC is much worse than the standard PPC, and standard PPCs are nothing to write home about to begin with. Its a 10 ton, 4 slot weapon, with an absolutely unbearable amount of heat, in exchange for an almost unnoticeable increase in damage over standard PPCs. Heavy PPCs are DOA if they arent changed from their current state.

I'd like to see 15 pinpoint damage with the same heat as an IS ERPPC. That would be far from broken with the minimum range and tonnage investment in the weapon and heatsinks you need to boat it

Toddasaurus, on 29 June 2017 - 07:25 PM, said:

According to Sarna.net, the hppc is supposed to be exactly the same as the cERPPC, but heavier. That said, it should have the same damage, heat, cooldown and velocity - as a minimum. I don't think that's asking much of PGI. I appreciate PGI's effort of the slightly increased pinpoint and lower splash compared to clan. Even so, I want it to be all 15 pinpoint, but I know PGI won't do that. So please, PGI, AT LEAST make everything else equal to cERPPCs. Come on.

Heavy PPCs only share the same damage and heat as cERPPCs. The tabletop stats are 15 damage, 15 heat, 4 crits, and 10 tons, with the same range as a standard PPC

[Nutta88]

I would just have variable cool downs based on weight and damage, heat can be about range and "other" features for the weapons like ecm jamming.

If a standard PPC is ok with a 4 sec cooldown then the other cooldowns would be;

LPPC 4.67 sec (these need a 4 LPPC ghost limit)
HPPC 3.36 sec with the current 12 and 3 splash or 4.2 sec cooldown with a straight 15 damage.
SNPPC 4.67 sec
ERPPC 4 sec
CERPPC 4.67 sec with the current 10 and 5 splash damage or 7 sec cooldown with a straight 15 damage...

having all these weapons have the same cool down doesn't make sense... giving them all the same Damage/TON/second output means that the weapons can be balanced throughout the class.

[corpse256]

well I was wonder why it does have splash damage. Sucks because of the 12 damage it does compared to the 15 of the Clan. But the thing is that Clans only get one PPC type its take the ER or nothing. The splash is already low. Maybe up the damage to 13 or 14 just to give it an extra point kick compared to the others seems to be under par with ER PPCs. But problem there is adjusting some of these too much may throw other weapon's performance off balance. I like the new variety of PPCs but a 9 damage pinpoint and a 3 damage splash feels like its under par. Maybe its use is different like the ATMs and I haven't figured the usefulness of the tool yet. Folks have same issues on ATMs. They just don't know what to use it for.

Biggest problem for upping damage on weapons is you have to up the heat otherwise the weapon will be overpowering other classes and build for the load out. I don't know if adding more damage to it will work out the feeling of the weapon. Maybe the heavy ppc needs to be mixed with another weapon system (I don't know which one maybe a gauss) to give it a full effect. I think it works well with light PPCs since you can run a Black Knight with 2 heavy and 2 light and get a good pinpoint damage and over all damage even though you would have to manage the thing like an awesome. Oh and one more thing the stub nose PPCs just upped performance to a lot of heavy PPC builds and I'm sure it ups the performance of the uziel. A great weapon system which I find to be very fine tuned at the moment.

Edited by corpse256, 29 June 2017 - 10:33 PM.

[corpse256]

Nutta88, on 29 June 2017 - 10:00 PM, said:

I would just have variable cool downs based on weight and damage, heat can be about range and "other" features for the weapons like ecm jamming.

If a standard PPC is ok with a 4 sec cooldown then the other cooldowns would be;

LPPC 4.67 sec (these need a 4 LPPC ghost limit)
HPPC 3.36 sec with the current 12 and 3 splash or 4.2 sec cooldown with a straight 15 damage.
SNPPC 4.67 sec
ERPPC 4 sec
CERPPC 4.67 sec with the current 10 and 5 splash damage or 7 sec cooldown with a straight 15 damage...

having all these weapons have the same cool down doesn't make sense... giving them all the same Damage/TON/second output means that the weapons can be balanced throughout the class.

Well we couldn't add straight damage to it otherwise it would out perform the clan ER-PPC way too much plus think of all the victors crawling back in with a 2 Heavy PPC and gauss rifles and we be back to same situation of overpowered weapon load outs. I'm sure there is a sweet spot somewhere to improve this weapon by a small tweak and not a major one.

[Y E O N N E]

Nutta88, on 29 June 2017 - 10:00 PM, said:

having all these weapons have the same cool down doesn't make sense... giving them all the same Damage/TON/second output means that the weapons can be balanced throughout the class.

It makes sense if you think about it in the context of being able to combine the PPC types together rather than as independent entities.

[Josh Seles]

I can't vote because my version of a solution isn't in the options.

However, I'd like to see this happen with PPC's in general:
H-PPC, C-ER PPC: 13.5 damage, no splash
H-PPC, C-ER PPC: 13.5 heat

IS ER PPC: 13 heat
SN-PPC: 9.5 heat

PPC, Lt-PPC, H-PPC, SN-PPC: 1300 M/s velocity
ER PPC, C-ER PPC: 1600 M/s

Lt-PPC ghost heat limit changed to 4
H-PPC ghost heat modified:
* 1: no penalty
* 2: very small penalty
* 3+: large penalty

All else remains unchanged.

I don't get why PGI refuses to let go of splash damage with the stronger PPC's (C-ER, Heavy). It's just damage that's getting spread to other components that we don't care about. 13.5 pinpoint damage with no splash on the Clan PPC is something that I've pushed for before, it might have even been in Tina's Most Wanted Features thread over in General Discussion. I think PPC splash damage is just a bad mechanic all around. At least 13.5 pinpoint damage is not as ridiculous as 15 pinpoint damage.

I also like the sound effects with the new PPC's when they fire, but that's beside the point.