46 replies to this topic

[Atomic Hamster]

Is it worth going full derp, or even putting any skill points into radar derp at all? Getting 60% requires some investment in the Sensors tree, getting full derp requires significantly more.
Because was used to having the radar derp module under the old system, have tended to aim for full derp - now am not sure if this isn't just a waste of skill points.

Edited by Atomic Hamster, 29 June 2017 - 04:56 PM.

[mailin]

I think investing at least some in this is always a good idea. Especially when PGI does challenges. Those really seem to bring out the lurm lords.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

Take one side of the sensor tree, depending which offers more other useful nodes.

[Leone]

I'd rather have the extra points in the firepower tree for better heat gen, or cooldown.

~Leone.

[Old dirty B]

Radar derp does more then keep them lurms away... it will also provide information wheteither you are targetted (and thus spotted) by a flash and little beep when you break line of sight. Also, instantly hidden is very usefull when brawling, especially with fast brawlers / strikers.
Even on my Pirates Bane i go full radar derp, enhanced emc AND seismic.

In the following video you can see me fighting with a pirates bane vs a srm jenner iic. At the range where we are fighting my ecm is not helping much but you will see that im instantly hidden when breaking line of sight. My opponent clearly doesnt have radar derp and while he has to search and find me im mostly aware of his location and direction.

Edited by Old dirty B, 29 June 2017 - 10:58 PM.

[Rogue Jedi]

I only invest in Radar Deprivation ^{(or seismic)} if I am already investing in sensors ^{(and depending on the Mech role I often do, TIG is useful for anything, TR, TD is great for scouts or missile boats)} is great for a brawler or skirmisher, but I am one of those weird people who place very little value on RD.

[Ukabix]

My best experiences are to get at least 40-60% on heavies / assaults and 100% on lights and meds that do not carry ECM.

[John Stryker]

I agree with wukabix. I go full seismic on all my mechs and depending on role and weight class I grab 2-5 derp nodes. I grab from depends on radar range or info depending if the mech is range fighter or brawler

[Cato Phoenix]

Nope, sensors are dead to me now.

[PaquIS]

Once the skill tree came out at first I kept taking at least 60% derp on everything. And seismic too quite often. I did so to about 15 mechs or so, but as of late I have removed all of the nodes from sensors.

The only mechs I take anything from the sensor tree are the ones with ECM if I want to use it. Biggest help the radar derp provides is against lurmers, but other than that its not as effective to have. I much rather put those points into armor hardening/skeletor which will help against all weapons. Or firepower / cooling.

[Barkem Squirrel]

One map, polar highlands sums this up.

sure it is wide open, with many places to hide or conceal your movement, if you know the trench system well enough. That instant breaking of target lock does keep the LRMs away, but letting them have a bit more time to get the lock may be better. Lock is broken when they are in the air and you may have 2-3 seconds to move out of the way of the LRMs.

It is also very effective on Caustic Valley, Alpine peaks (and yes I have walked an non-ECM atlas and highlanders up behind people on that map without being seen) and tourmaline.

[Roughneck45]

Its good, just have to decide if you want it.

My personal opinion is that its fantastic for PUG matches if you are confident you can carry a team. The less time you are the dorito they are staring at the better.

[Its my first day]

Since you get target info gathering as part of the package on the left hand side, I think its worth getting at least the lowest level of it. My rule for radar derp is the slower the mech is, the more of it I try to get on the left. No idea if its a good rule, but its what I plan to stick to, for now.

[Bonzai VI]

@Atomic Hamster

I really like to go down the left side of the sensors tree. There's so many goodies there^^
I'm not even sure which is better: target derp or target info gathering

I manage to invest those 8-9 points since it really helps with peaking and trading and stuff.

But i wouldn't go beneath 60% radar derp cuz at that point it starts to not give enough benefits for the points.
Personally i don't take the 100% radar derp (could also have to do with the fact that I'm most comfortable with medium mechs and hate brawl lights^^)


It really boils down to what you prefer. I like 60% radar derp. Some want the 100%. Some don't take any at all. It's your playstyle.
For example if you've got medium+lrg pulse weapons you will have a fast recycle time, thus need the radar derp so the enemy doesn't see when you're going out of cover. A guy with double gauss has such a slow recycle time that he could manage without.

But well that's what's so interesting about the skill tree, it's different for every player
(But don't skill Speed Tweak, THAT'S a waste of points)

Edited by Bonzai VI, 30 June 2017 - 05:11 PM.

[Atomic Hamster]

Bonzai VI, on 30 June 2017 - 05:06 PM, said:

But well that's what's so interesting about the skill tree, it's different for every player
(But don't skill Speed Tweak, THAT'S a waste of points)

Yes - the lack of consensus in this thread seems to confirm this! (I'm not sure about speed tweak being a waste of points either - I can see the attraction if you want more speed but don't have spare tonnage for a larger engine).

Am currently trying to level an Urbie (the first light I've actually enjoyed playing) and am having occasional successes with hit-and-fade, flanking and ambush tactics which I think may be helped by the 60% derp that I currently have on it (by getting off the radar faster).

Edited by Atomic Hamster, 30 June 2017 - 05:39 PM.

[Bonzai VI]

@Atomic Hamster

sorry gotta reformulate that^^
Many people skill Speed Tweak on nearly every mech. That's where i was coming from

For an urbie for example that can't put his engine over a 180 it's definitely something really good to have.

And radar derp fits such a playstyle pretty well yeah^^ You could try going for 100% derp and see how that feels. The better you know yourself the better you can play around your comfort zone. One does SO MUCH better when playing mechs + weapons that really fit ones personality^^


Also a little tip: Even though Operations should be the tree to improve your heat management, the heat gen from the firepower tree does that significantely better.

You can really only feel Cool run + Heat containment when over 15 ext. heat sinks. IS mechs can't even manage that^^
(MANY players sadly haven't noticed that^^ just want to spread the word)

Edited by Bonzai VI, 30 June 2017 - 05:56 PM.

[Atomic Hamster]

Bonzai VI, on 30 June 2017 - 05:55 PM, said:

Also a little tip: Even though Operations should be the tree to improve your heat management, the heat gen from the firepower tree does that significantely better.

You can really only feel Cool run + Heat containment when over 15 ext. heat sinks. IS mechs can't even manage that^^
(MANY players sadly haven't noticed that^^ just want to spread the word)

If this is correct then I'm going to be respeccing a few of my mechs! (all my clan mechs run pretty hot so have gone heavily into ops for all of them - my IS ones don't have the same heat problems).

[Bonzai VI]

Atomic Hamster, on 30 June 2017 - 06:17 PM, said:

If this is correct then I'm going to be respeccing a few of my mechs! (all my clan mechs run pretty hot so have gone heavily into ops for all of them - my IS ones don't have the same heat problems).

True

Had to respecc several Mechs on my own. Sadly skilled them before testing how much cool run does^^ Good thing it were only ~ 15 nodes for those.

You can always test it in the training grounds (wanted to write testing grounds lol). Just take a heat neutral map, play one round with cool run and one without. (Possibly do that two times: IS mech with ~ 7 heat sinks and a clan mech with ~ 15 heat sinks).

Maybe the better heat management (after taking most of the heat gen nodes ) is worth it to take points out of mobility/survival for you?^^ (I just know that really isn't the case for me. I love the survival tree and acc/dec+anchor turn )

[Jack Booted Thug]

Been experimenting with and without it.

Fighting at er laser range, don't really need it as it's easy to move into cover before getting hit even in a slower assault.

Mid range or shorter range slower mechs seem to get the most benefit for me because it can take a bit to get back into cover or move from spot to spot when closing the distance with an enemy.

Faster light mechs, don't really need it so much either as long as I'm cognizant of staying somewhat near cover.

[WrathOfDeadguy]

I spec the left branch of the sensors tree with 10 points (enough to get 50% Seismic, 60% RD, and a big chunk of TIG) on nearly all of my 'Mechs. I have yet to regret doing so, even when I had to sacrifice mobility or weapon nodes to get those ten points.

On the other side of the coin, I have not yet felt that I specced too few nodes in Derp; only a few of my 'Mechs have the entire sensor tree (support and ECM builds only). 60% is good enough, and it costs way too many nodes to get the other 40% unless you really need a bunch of stuff on the other side of the tree. That said, the Sensor tree yields high value-per-node if you do need any of the skills in it. 50% of a skill for one point is massive compared to, say, 0.75% heatgen reduction. If you think your build needs a particular Sensor skill, make the sacrifice; you'll hardly notice the lost node, but the gain from the new one will make an immediate impact.