66 replies to this topic

[YourSaviorLegion]

Now that the IS will be receiving their ultra auto cannons can we un-nerf the crazy high jam chance on Clans?

[Birthright]

Nope, Clans to OP.

[Khobai]

nerf heavy machine gun!

clans shouldnt even get one good new thing.

[AncientRaig]

Yeah, as soon as they gain 3 tons and 2 crit slots.

[Shifty McSwift]

The UAC is about as OP as it gets, the notion of potential double damage on something like an ac20 is wildly unwieldy in balancing terms, considering it's stats as well, it is a fickle situation to just not obsolete other ballistics with it.

That being said the jamming does indeed suck in practice, it was a pretty good idea TBH to try and balance out its usage, but its just a double or nothing gun really, that can be opted to fire like a normal AC, which still to me, obsoletes the clan ACs in how they both fire the same.

[El Bandito]

YourSaviorLegion, on 01 July 2017 - 06:44 PM, said:

Now that the IS will be receiving their ultra auto cannons can we un-nerf the crazy high jam chance on Clans?

You mean the crappy IS UAC10 that players cant even boat two on Std side torso while Clanners can boat on CXL with two more slots to spare? The IS UAC2 that has worse range than CUAC2 while weighing more? The IS UAC20 that forces LFE? Perhaps CUACs in general might need a buff but the inclusion of even worse IS UACs is certainly not the right reason for it.

[Scout Derek]

Please. I'd like to see my orionIIC(O) variant actually be any good again, jams half the time in battle....

[LORD ORION]

It's not the jams... it the dumb jam time.

[Snowbluff]

El Bandito, on 02 July 2017 - 06:23 PM, said:

You mean the crappy IS UAC10 that players cant even boat two on Std side torso while Clanners can boat on CXL with two more slots to spare?

****, if only there was some kind of awesome IS mech that had a good ballastic on each side torso. Perhaps one really popular with the fans...

Also not a lot of clan mechs can carry 2 UAC10 in one side torso. Literally 2 MAD IIC variants, and 2 KODIAK variants, IIRC. Maybe an Orion IIC, but no omnis can do it.

Edited by Snowbluff, 02 July 2017 - 06:47 PM.

[nehebkau]

YourSaviorLegion, on 01 July 2017 - 06:44 PM, said:

Now that the IS will be receiving their ultra auto cannons can we un-nerf the crazy high jam chance on Clans?

Maybe you should play IS for a while, then you will realize how important the weight and crits actually are on a mech.

[J0anna]

Of course the IS fans here aren't mentioning the part where IS UAC's don't have ghost heat (and have a lower jam chance and lower jam time, but lets not bring facts into it) while the Clan UAC's do. The King Crab is a beast with 2xUAC 20's without ghost heat, so the IS UAC's aren't very bad at all.

[A Shoddy Rental Mech]

Some people really need to quit playing clan mechs only.

I.S. AC/UAC were nerfed at the same time as clan UACs

UAC/5
• Jam Duration increased to 6s (from 5s)
Clan UAC/5
• Jam Duration increased to 6.5s (from 5s)

Comparable I.S. has .5 less jam duration at the cost of how many tons/slots?
Once again thank the OP KDK-3 for a nerf to a whole weapon class, I.S. and Clan






Patch note https://mwomercs.com...88-15-nov-2016/
AC/5
• Heat increased to 1.5 (from 1)

Clan LBX/5
• Heat increased to 1.5 (from 1)

Design Notes: We are normalizing the Heat/Damage output across a few of the lower-gauge AC weaponry to better align them against their larger counterparts. While a similar DPS reduction to AC/5's was considered and tested in the Energy Draw PTS, at this stage we want to observe whether the Heat normalization is all that might be needed to balance the viability of the under-performing AC/2 line, and the over-performing AC/5 line.

Clan UAC/2
• Jam Chance increased to 17% (from 14%)
• Jam Duration reduced to 3s (from 5s)

UAC/5
• Jam Duration increased to 6s (from 5s)
• Heat increased to 1.5 (from 1)

Clan UAC/5
• Jam Chance increased to 17% (from 15%)
• Jam Duration increased to 6.5s (from 5s)
• Heat increased to 1.5 (from 1)

Clan UAC/10
• Jam Chance increased to 17% (from 15%)
• Jam Duration increased to 8s (from 5s)

Clan UAC/20
• Jam Chance increased to 17% (from 15%)
• Jam Duration increased to 8s (from 5s)



Design Notes: While the Kodiak might have prompted our initial investigation into the UAC line of weaponry, we should say upfront that the above changes were not implemented in an attempt to address the performance of the Kodiak alone, but instead were a result of close monitoring all UAC 'boats', such as the Mauler, Night Gyr, Dire Wolf, and others. These 'Mechs were found to be relatively over-performing almost across the board.

Ultimately, the near 30-60% DPS increase across the UAC line, compared to the other Ballistic options, made UACs a direct DPS 'upgrade' over those alternative Ballistic options. While this is somewhat needed on the Inner Sphere side to help justify the higher tonnage and slot requirements, this trait is not shared on the Clan side. For Clan 'Mechs, the UAC is essentially a 'free' upgrade that was vastly over-performing against the Ballistic alternatives.

The above changes have been made to keep UACs still in a very powerful position, geared toward 'burst DPS', risk-over-reward mechanics, but to nonetheless curb their overall DPS output through sustained use. We closely examined the results of the PTS testing, and have tuned those values based on our findings. We will continue to monitor UAC performance closely in light of these changes.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

El Bandito, on 02 July 2017 - 06:23 PM, said:

You mean the crappy IS UAC10 that players cant even boat two on Std side torso while Clanners can boat on CXL with two more slots to spare? The IS UAC2 that has worse range than CUAC2 while weighing more? The IS UAC20 that forces LFE? Perhaps CUACs in general might need a buff but the inclusion of even worse IS UACs is certainly not the right reason for it.

I mean, just about everyone is bringing an LFE anyway, IS has complained about STD engines being too heavy and XL engines being too fragile for so long now that I'd think that no one would whine.

But besides that it actually *doesn't* force LFE/STD engine at all since it fits in arms that don't have lower actuators, so the Centurion, the new Black Knight Hero, the King Crab, and more can bring one with an XL, though LFE is likely the better option anyway.

IS UAC20 is actually pretty equal to the Clan UAC20.

Clan UAC20 Pros:
-Lighter
-Less Slots
-Longer range

IS UAC20 Pros:
-Less shells per volley/higher precision/higher frontloading
-No ghost heat when firing two, resulting in extra precision and double the alpha potential
-Less heat


I'd pick the IS one out of the two due to the 80 damage alpha ability previously only seen on the quad UAC10 Kodiak before the nerf,

IS UAC10 and 5 also still keep the higher precision, UAC10s being only 2 shells and UAC5 being full PPFLD, as you know. I've said before that I prefer quad UAC5 Maulers over the hex UAC5 or 3UAC5+2UAC10 Dire Wolves before, PPFLD 20 damage at long range back to back is no joke.

With the inclusion of the LFE engines and their size allowing for either 2 UAC5s or a UAC20 in each side torso, I don't see IS lacking in ballistic power, rather they have the advantage in ghost heat free alphas, precision damage, heat generation, and quirks, along with the skill tree giving 5% higher max cooldowns. Clans get lighter and more compact guns that function pretty well at spraying damage all over the enemy, but the highest alpha you can get is 60 out of a double tap with 2 UAC10s+2UAC5s in a Kodiak. IS is also getting the RACs, which have been buffed since PTS1, already outputs great DPS, though the spin up and spread are problematic, still undergoing changes may help it though.


As for UAC2s, they're trash on both sides, IS is just worse, can't have any less shells than 1, and at just 2 damage each it wouldn't help much anyway. IS could get a cooldown decrease on those or better jam rates or something, though honestly both sides need some buffs with that weapon.

[YourSaviorLegion]

I've played both sides of the field plenty, I'm in a merc unit after all. If anything just reduce the ridiculous amount of time it takes to clear the jam from all UACs. They're totally killing any build diversity when they do their sweeping 'balance' nerfs.

[Brain Cancer]

Shifty McSwift, on 01 July 2017 - 11:49 PM, said:

The UAC is about as OP as it gets, the notion of potential double damage on something like an ac20 is wildly unwieldy in balancing terms, considering it's stats as well, it is a fickle situation to just not obsolete other ballistics with it.

That being said the jamming does indeed suck in practice, it was a pretty good idea TBH to try and balance out its usage, but its just a double or nothing gun really, that can be opted to fire like a normal AC, which still to me, obsoletes the clan ACs in how they both fire the same.

The CAC shouldn't even exist, as all it was is Paul's placeholder attempt at properly building LB-X and in reality never was a Clan weapon to begin with. Clanners don't actually have a standard-type AC on the equipment list until the 3070s, where they make a compact gun for ProtoMechs that can also be used on their big brothers.

[A Shoddy Rental Mech]

YourSaviorLegion, on 02 July 2017 - 08:18 PM, said:

I've played both sides of the field plenty, I'm in a merc unit after all. If anything just reduce the ridiculous amount of time it takes to clear the jam from all UACs. They're totally killing any build diversity when they do their sweeping 'balance' nerfs.

UAC's right now are crap for both sides.
You really need to boat at least 4 to make them viable.
Guess which side can boat uac's more effectively. *cough*KDK-3*cough*
It's not just a clan problem.

[El Bandito]

Snowbluff, on 02 July 2017 - 06:46 PM, said:

****, if only there was some kind of awesome IS mech that had a good ballastic on each side torso. Perhaps one really popular with the fans...

Also not a lot of clan mechs can carry 2 UAC10 in one side torso. Literally 2 MAD IIC variants, and 2 KODIAK variants, IIRC. Maybe an Orion IIC, but no omnis can do it.

Doesnt change the fact that exactly ZERO IS mechs can have 2 UAC10s in a single ST.

[El Bandito]

Dakota1000, on 02 July 2017 - 07:35 PM, said:

I mean, just about everyone is bringing an LFE anyway, IS has complained about STD engines being too heavy and XL engines being too fragile for so long now that I'd think that no one would whine.

But besides that it actually *doesn't* force LFE/STD engine at all since it fits in arms that don't have lower actuators, so the Centurion, the new Black Knight Hero, the King Crab, and more can bring one with an XL, though LFE is likely the better option anyway.

IS UAC20 is actually pretty equal to the Clan UAC20.

Clan UAC20 Pros:
-Lighter
-Less Slots
-Longer range

IS UAC20 Pros:
-Less shells per volley/higher precision/higher frontloading
-No ghost heat when firing two, resulting in extra precision and double the alpha potential
-Less heat


I'd pick the IS one out of the two due to the 80 damage alpha ability previously only seen on the quad UAC10 Kodiak before the nerf,

IS UAC10 and 5 also still keep the higher precision, UAC10s being only 2 shells and UAC5 being full PPFLD, as you know. I've said before that I prefer quad UAC5 Maulers over the hex UAC5 or 3UAC5+2UAC10 Dire Wolves before, PPFLD 20 damage at long range back to back is no joke.

With the inclusion of the LFE engines and their size allowing for either 2 UAC5s or a UAC20 in each side torso, I don't see IS lacking in ballistic power, rather they have the advantage in ghost heat free alphas, precision damage, heat generation, and quirks, along with the skill tree giving 5% higher max cooldowns. Clans get lighter and more compact guns that function pretty well at spraying damage all over the enemy, but the highest alpha you can get is 60 out of a double tap with 2 UAC10s+2UAC5s in a Kodiak. IS is also getting the RACs, which have been buffed since PTS1, already outputs great DPS, though the spin up and spread are problematic, still undergoing changes may help it though.


As for UAC2s, they're trash on both sides, IS is just worse, can't have any less shells than 1, and at just 2 damage each it wouldn't help much anyway. IS could get a cooldown decrease on those or better jam rates or something, though honestly both sides need some buffs with that weapon.

I bet IS UAC10/20 are gonna be saddled with just as heavy GH as Clan ones. PGI had left tons of loopholes in the PTS so far, and they will close them soon. So hold your horses. Not to mention LFE is still 100% worse than CXL.

[El Bandito]

J0anna, on 02 July 2017 - 07:00 PM, said:

Of course the IS fans here aren't mentioning the part where IS UAC's don't have ghost heat (and have a lower jam chance and lower jam time, but lets not bring facts into it) while the Clan UAC's do. The King Crab is a beast with 2xUAC 20's without ghost heat, so the IS UAC's aren't very bad at all.

Wanna bet a mechpack that PGI will saddle IS UAC20 with GH? Cause that WILL happen.

[jjm1]

C-UAC-20s don't even need the jams to suck. With 70+ damage pinpoint laser strikes in the game now, dual UAC-20s with their bad range, bad accuracy, epic and probably bugged ghost heat, face time, and the ability to randomly brick themselves when you finally get that chance to unleash them on someone are hardly going to eclipse clan lasers in terms of weapons you should fear.

They are at least better than C-AC20s, which must have been an April fools joke some year.