124 replies to this topic

[PyckenZot]

Using the term "lurmageddon" in vain.

...

Seriously,



You befoil the memory of those that fell to real hellfire!

Edited by PyckenZot, 05 July 2017 - 07:24 AM.

[Wiley Coyote]

[Natred]

Piggy backers be piggy backin. "Hold locks please" lrms will forever be known as the piggyback weapon. You only have yourselves to blame for this.

Edited by Natred, 05 July 2017 - 07:34 AM.

[Metus regem]

vandalhooch, on 05 July 2017 - 02:46 AM, said:

I just went back through the first 30 responses to your original post. The only one that is even slightly like you describe is the one with the gif of the three "explorers" synchronizing their laughter.

To be fair, the rest of my post was filled with details on how to mitigate the perceived power of LRM's.

[Sjorpha]

No, I don't want no lurms
A lurmboat is just a big waste for all my team
Sitting in the back and hides in his missile ride
Trying to get kills for free...

Lurms need a big buff to be competitive, lol they are so horribly weak, but i'm not sure I actually want them to be stronger

[CFC Conky]

chucklesMuch, on 05 July 2017 - 01:38 AM, said:

Hello Goggles,

Guessing you are new to the forums, if not the game. Lurms are regularly, like every other week it seems, popping up on the forums as OP. It's not general consensus though.

Lurms are often considered OP at the lower tiers but not at the higher tiers. Where they are seen as one of the weakest, most situational weapons in the game. (lrm boats can be considered detrimmental to your own team, not always; there some exceptional lurmers and sometimes the stars align). They rely too much on the enemy making a mistake and not having one of the many counters.

Well said chuckles

[El Bandito]

LRMs damage is so easily spread. Not only they have long travel time, allowing you to twist and shield important part of your mech, they have too much spread. With basic twisting skill you can live for a long time against LRMs. THis is one such match where I was lurmed during the first half of the match. With a bit of twisting I didn't manage to lose a single component and won handily.

That's how inefficient LRMs are.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

C'mon....if I get hit by LRMs (excepting from a couple of upper tier guys/teams who actually know how to use them) it's generally because either I have done something wrong in my positioning (my fault, not your skill) , got NARCed or am (along with my teammates) most likely just to busy murdering the rest of your team to break lock....we will be with you shortly....

Yeah, you might have ok damage and be the last to die, but you really gimped your team by "staying fresh" and lrming from the behind your buddies. This stuff works great at lower-tiers...but really nowhere else.

Edited by Marquis De Lafayette, 05 July 2017 - 09:44 AM.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

I will grant one reason LRMing works at all in QP solo queue (especially at mid and lower tiers)....you pick your mech before you pick your map. At one time or another, we have all been stuck in a brawling assault on Polar or Alpine......we voted for mining and got polar....shucks. Newer players tend to lack patience (i did) and want to press the action early and if you are in a slow brawler....well that's a LRM death-sentence on certain maps. Dead-Atlas-walking... At upper tiers, players show more patience (and get bored) in such situations....they wait until the time looks right to push.

In FW, people can and do (even PUGS with a little experience) adjust their decks to the maps....you get polar...well forget about a brawling assault., hello ECM, ams, PPC's and erlarge...for example. Point is...Bringing a weapon-system that is more dependent on your opponents lack of knowledge and lack of skill, than on your skill is a dicey proposition at anything other than lower-tier solo-queue games.

[MischiefSC]

You can nerf LRMs yourself!

Take AMS, use cover, carry direct fire weapons.

Boom. LRMs are now helpless against you.

I know that in FW I'll often ignore getting shot by LRMs to finish focusing down a target because I can take a lot of LRM fire where as direct fire can kill a mech in 2 alphas.

[Brain Cancer]

Quote

Most canon mechs that come with many missile slots do so because they have a mix of LRM's and SRM's, not to be able to launch 100's of LRMs at once. Anything beyond two launchers should suffer a severe penalty in my opinion. Note that I said "most" so no need to post about exceptions.

Even the most heinous MWO lobbers (read: Stalker) fire 100 missiles at most, due to space restrictions. Even the Clan ones don't get past 4x20 right now.

Canonically, you get IS beasts like the Salamander that come stock with LRM 60, as SL-era tech made it reasonable to do so. And of course, there's this beast:



That's the canonical LRM 15x8 Bane 3. LRM 120. Fwoosh woosh (explode from ghost heat), baby.

Also, why prevent someone from going 6x10, for example? People boat so many LRMs because honestly, it's the only way to compensate for them scattering damage...at the immense cost of tonnage packing that many tubes requires.

---

And seriously, if any other main gun in the game was considered to be a miracle shooter for having even a 50% hit rate, they'd be rioting to buff it.

[Luminis]

Sjorpha, on 05 July 2017 - 08:04 AM, said:

Lurms need a big buff to be competitive, lol they are so horribly weak, but i'm not sure I actually want them to be stronger

Yeah, they're... In a peculiar place.

Breaking away from the fluff and the lore, we're still playing a competitive arena shooter. Competitive meaning, human players fighting against human players, not necessarily being e-sport worthy or anything, mind you

Homing weapons with indirect firing capabilities that can piggy back off of someone else's "targeting" don't really have a place in the sort of game MWO is (wants to be?) once you strip the BattleTech skins away, but PGI can't very well remove them. They don't seem to be willing to rework them from the ground up, as might be needed. Which is a bit of a shame, really, because the way they are now not only makes them quite weak in most situations, but so much of whether they'll work in a given match hinges on factors beyond the player's control. Like having spotters, opponents not bringing AMS / Radar Derp, getting the right map and so on and so forth. Which, obviously makes it even more depressing to be on the receiving end when there actually is that perfect storm of factors that push LRMs, once in a while

The need for a rework is, in my opinion, further compounded by something - I think - Chris said: They can't really push LRMs because that'd have a negative impact on the lower Tiers, e.g. Tier 4 & 5. This, again, highlights the weapon system's tendency to perform according to the target's capabilities, not so much the user's. And yes, I'm fully aware of the fact that there are people using LRMs to great effect in higher level games from time to time, but I don't perceive that to be the case for the general population.

[Wywern]

Just putting this out there, in my opinion LRMs are the worst weapons in the game and especially so if you're solo queuing.

Edited by Wywern, 05 July 2017 - 10:59 AM.

[Metus regem]

Luminis, on 05 July 2017 - 10:49 AM, said:

Yeah, they're... In a peculiar place.

Breaking away from the fluff and the lore, we're still playing a competitive arena shooter. Competitive meaning, human players fighting against human players, not necessarily being e-sport worthy or anything, mind you

Homing weapons with indirect firing capabilities that can piggy back off of someone else's "targeting" don't really have a place in the sort of game MWO is (wants to be?) once you strip the BattleTech skins away, but PGI can't very well remove them. They don't seem to be willing to rework them from the ground up, as might be needed. Which is a bit of a shame, really, because the way they are now not only makes them quite weak in most situations, but so much of whether they'll work in a given match hinges on factors beyond the player's control. Like having spotters, opponents not bringing AMS / Radar Derp, getting the right map and so on and so forth. Which, obviously makes it even more depressing to be on the receiving end when there actually is that perfect storm of factors that push LRMs, once in a while

The need for a rework is, in my opinion, further compounded by something - I think - Chris said: They can't really push LRMs because that'd have a negative impact on the lower Tiers, e.g. Tier 4 & 5. This, again, highlights the weapon system's tendency to perform according to the target's capabilities, not so much the user's. And yes, I'm fully aware of the fact that there are people using LRMs to great effect in higher level games from time to time, but I don't perceive that to be the case for the general population.

A few months (years?) back I saw a post that suggested some good buffs, with one key thing that balanced out those buffs, that was to have a mode switch, like ECM does, that switches them between direct fire (where LRM/s need the biggest buff) and indirect fire modes. In indirect fire mode, you would retain the current game play of LRM/s, but in direct fire mode you would have tightened spread, faster flight time and a much shallower flight path on LRM/s. Both modes would retain the current minimum range, yet offer vastly different skill levels for usage.

[BigFatGator]

I think people freak out about the missiles hitting them and don't check that their own mech paper doll just barely went from yellow to orange armor. Or they are just about stripped and LRMs do the coup de gras on them and think 'LRMs op' rather than the lasers that stripped all the armor off them to let LRMs actually hit criticals.

[Brain Cancer]

Lemme use that wonderful picture a few posts up to empathize how LRMs generally damage a target.



Generally, most targets degrade at a pretty even pace all-round...unless someone else hits them with more focused damage. There's a reason I usually try to at least burn things with my laser(s) while bombing them, as it'll mean a weak spot that will collapse sooner. Otherwise? I've had kills where I ended up with five component destroys at once because my blunt force missile trauma literally had to zero out the entire upper body of the target thanks to spread damage.

By comparison, any direct fire weapon user worth a damn who delivered that much damage has either legged or cored their opponent and quite possibly a second one to boot.

[KekistanWillRiseAgain]

El Bandito, on 05 July 2017 - 09:27 AM, said:

LRMs damage is so easily spread. Not only they have long travel time, allowing you to twist and shield important part of your mech, they have too much spread. With basic twisting skill you can live for a long time against LRMs. THis is one such match where I was lurmed during the first half of the match. With a bit of twisting I didn't manage to lose a single component and won handily.

That's how inefficient LRMs are.

Clan LRMs or IS LRM5s without Artemis and/or TAG, no way you are spreading chainfired every .52 sec IS LRM15s like that, especially not in an Ebon Jag. Now cLRMs just pissing out in long streams or small bunches of missiles in wide groupings (IS LRM5) that can accomplished against, but against any top teir LRM boat you can not pull that off since you just get crunched before you can by whittled down. I would bet $20 bucks on that being a result of a MDD with x6 cLRM5s post nerf, which is why no one should ever play build anymore or even use a MDD for LRMs in general since the NTG-D & ON1-IIC-A are vastly superior LRM platforms now.

People never try to teach people how to LRM correctly, they just say they are "bad" (which in the gross caricature Comp has become is true) while they are quite good when used correctly in the right mech with the right build. Just like every other weapon system... when used correctly by someone who knows what they are doing, LRMs are devastating in Solo Queue. The vast majority of people who use LRMs use them just as poorly as the vast majority of people who use all the other weapon systems, bad builds & bad skills being much more visible is why LRMs are targeted for so much hate.

[Aeries]

[J0anna]

Funk1777, on 04 July 2017 - 12:04 PM, said:

Solutions?

You missed an important one, join a established group/clan. Yes the 6 of you can play as a group and learn the game through trial and error.

But here's the thing, PGI has setup this game so that an individual's contribution doesn't matter that much. A group working together can accomplish much more. There are many established groups that will help newer players and will show you basic tactics, target calling, movement that will improve your game experience. Your friends may be very good at other games, but it is tough to carry 11 other, non-communicative players. That changes when you join a group/clan. And I'm not talking about jumping into competition, but joining a group, meeting new friends and learning the game in a more fun environment. When I drop with my clan, I: 1) Always learn something and 2) Normally have a lot of fun even we I lose.

[vandalhooch]

Metus regem, on 05 July 2017 - 07:38 AM, said:

To be fair, the rest of my post was filled with details on how to mitigate the perceived power of LRM's.

Hence, my use of the term "slightly."