224 replies to this topic

[OrmsbyGore]

El Bandito, on 05 July 2017 - 09:35 PM, said:

A lot of brawl mech pilots simply lack patience. They tend to rush in after yelling their SQ team to follow him, and complain when the others do not and he dies first.

So yeah--Patience.

There's an art to this. Push too early, get picked apart before you can make a meaningful dent in the enemy team. Wait too long, the other team's brawlers will overwhelm your position and the lower dps of your teammates won't save you. Especially if you're in an assault and retreat isn't a viable option

[OrmsbyGore]

Vellron2005, on 05 July 2017 - 11:17 PM, said:

Here's my 2 cents:

This is a videogame. It's meant to be fun. And I will never ever let anyone else tell me how to play, what to bring, and what not to.

I have already had a few serious arguments over this issue before.

NO I will not change my dropdeck to exactly the mechs you tell me to bring, with the exact loadouts you tell me to put on. It's MY game, not yours.

And I will defend my right to have fun until the servers shut down!

I may not be the best out there, but I'm certainly not the worst, weather I bring LRMs, laservomit, or something else.

Yesterday, I was bullied, berated and laughed at by a 7 or 8-man of a particular Smoke Jag unit I dropped FP with. They would not stop bullying me verbally the whole match o both chat and Voip. They treated me unbelievably mean, even evil, and got reported for their trouble.

I actually did pretty well, considering that it was basically me against the world..

And why? Cose' I would not let them run my game for me. Yes. I brought LRMs. The builds and mechs I'm good with, and that give me the best results of my MWO career. But this was not enough for these bullies.

So I said to my self "flack em'".

I asked them to stop repeatedly.. this only seemed to spur them on..

Reports were sent in.

I do not care how good you think you are, actually are, or aren't.

It DOES NOT give anyone the right to be a bully.

it DOES NOT give you the right to tell me what to bring.

It DOES NOT give you the right to treat me with disrespect.

It DOES NOT give you the right to run my game for me.

When and if I ever get to Tier 1, I will still be bringing LRMs. And Laservomit. And whatever the hell I want. And everybody else has absolutely no say in it.

Get over it.

Its MY GAME.

I'm sorry to hear you had such a toxic experience, and you were right to report the players; one of the hardest things to overcome for me when I first started was how toxic the community can be and how unsupportive of new players some people are in-game (though then I discovered some online guides and youtubers who are really informative, check out Kanajashi, Molten Metal, and M4J35T1C on youtube if you haven't already).

The only thing I would disagree with you is a minor discrepency in terms of role; if you play as an assault mech, I believe that it is fair to ask you to be at or near the front lines, drawing agro and tanking damage, as the class you chose is much better suited to that role than other classes; similarly, if you are a light mech, it is also fair to ask you to do some scouting, for many of the same reasons.

To use a real world analogy, imagine we are playing a game of basketball. You are well in your rights to ask the tallest player on your team to guard the tallest player on the opposing team, as their physical attributes give them a chance while shorter players will just get dunked on. Now, can you force the tallest player to do that? No, of course not, but you would be justifiably upset when the game ended and the opposing team's tallest player completely dominated the court because no one of his size was guarding him (especially if the tallest player on your team had circles run around him by a smaller, more agile player).

Always remember, that while you have both the right and the ability to play any way you like, the game forces us into teams and it is in everyone's best interest to work together and cooperate.

[Kin3ticX]

When you play the Game of Solo Queue you are either the deep fryer or the potato, there is no middle ground.

[Kin3ticX]

razenWing, on 05 July 2017 - 06:56 AM, said:

200 posts ago, I made about my forray into the realm of Gods and Monsters. I don't think adapted poorly, in fact my average match score has gone up season by season despite climbing that ladder.

But as I was staring at my arsenal of 100+ mechanical yesterday, I realized... Wow I am not enjoying this... Like at all.

If you want to do good consistently, brawl is basically dead in high tier game. Nobody got to that stage without the most effective method, which from the beginn8ng of time, has always been to shoot before you get shot back. Even if it's boring as hell, at the end of the day, you just have to land one more shot than the other side, right? That's why top teams like EMP never pushes, but rely on their impressive shooting skills to make a mockery of poptarting.

Note, I'm not bashing those guys. They play the hand they're dealt, and they can make pocket Queens work better than every other suckers.

My point... so going to Solo que, you stick to that range wack a mole game and there's basically like a few meta builds that will f you the least even if you have trash teammates. Needless to say, as much as I like EBJs... having my life revolve around one mech is just no fun with other hundred mech sitting in the bench. In lower ques, before people get the necessity of meta, people are more willing to try wacky builds that often time, means cqc (w a lot more lrms, downside)

High tier games, none of that noise... Just... Boring.

I mean, I could always drop in groups. But let's set aside the tonnage limitation and you don't want to always hog the tonnage and/or people need to be online, you go in there with finally... You diverse builds, your fun builds, and because you work in a team , they work out great!!

Till you run into those EMPs tier comp teams. And you realize, crap, outside of running the exact same meta yawn builds and lose a slower more competitive death, you are just going to get trashed otherwise.

So either you play their game, make your game no fun, but at least have a chance every single game...
Or
You play your game, your team is good enough to win against everyone except you will be trashed every 2 to 3 games because of meta try hard.

All this culminate to my exhaustion toward the gameplay. Again, this is not to blame the super teams. Plenty of wannabe teams do the same thing and get trashed. They just play their pocket Queens better than everyone else. That's not their fault that the game is the way it is. But I do blame PGI for not introducing modes or maps to break up deathball or range... And/or not limiting twitch reflex skills over strategic decision making.

But even that's getting old. No point blaming PGI when they won't do a thing about it. Everyone is just OK with being satisfactory because there's always s9meone they can beat up on. Emp laughs every time there's less sjr 9n the other side... Vice versa so on and so forth... No one really cares because of the status quo. New mech is just an excuse to see how well it can adapt to the meta instead of the other way around. Yawn

Here lies my problem with tier 1. People are making it into tier 1 with barely barely average stats. Go ahead and look up the OP. According to work done by Taragato, the average player has a .98 KDR, a 1.0 W.L, and a ~200 avg matchscore. Potato is a relative term but the real potato demarcation line is somewhere inside the massive pool of tier1 players.

TLDR, this means players are getting to tier 1 and half of everyone in the game is still better than them. PGI is handing out Tier 1 like candybars. This game has 5 tiers! Wtf is going on?

Tier 1 is absolutely gigantic, more topheavy most everyone ever realized. Those games where you feel like the are full of t5s are probably loaded with tier 1s.

Its been proven you can get to tier 1 in an LRM atlas.

Edited by Kin3ticX, 06 July 2017 - 02:44 PM.

[Brain Cancer]

We knew that was inevitable just looking at the PSR formulas the day they became public.

An average player will become T1 with time and not look back, and tiering is not separation by skill. Add in that T1-3 are effectively glommed together and it's just a number rating for how much you were willing to grind, not how good you are doing it.

[Kin3ticX]

Brain Cancer, on 06 July 2017 - 02:51 PM, said:

We knew that was inevitable just looking at the PSR formulas the day they became public.

An average player will become T1 with time and not look back, and tiering is not separation by skill. Add in that T1-3 are effectively glommed together and it's just a number rating for how much you were willing to grind, not how good you are doing it.

PGI assumes you get better the more you play but everyone hits a wall or peaks at different levels. People are hitting walls somewhat early on and still tiering up.

[Tarl Cabot]

Kin3ticX, on 06 July 2017 - 03:59 PM, said:

PGI assumes you get better the more you play but everyone hits a wall or peaks at different levels. People are hitting walls somewhat early on and still tiering up.

This ^^^ If there was a Tier 0, I would already be halfway there with the current PSR setup, but I know better...(SQ)

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 06 July 2017 - 04:31 PM.

[El Bandito]

OrmsbyGore, on 06 July 2017 - 02:00 PM, said:

There's an art to this. Push too early, get picked apart before you can make a meaningful dent in the enemy team. Wait too long, the other team's brawlers will overwhelm your position and the lower dps of your teammates won't save you. Especially if you're in an assault and retreat isn't a viable option

Yep just like this match. These [HEL] fools had waited way in the back in E7 with their Assaults, and only engaged after the rest of us were dead trying to hold E6. Naturally they found themselves outnumbered and quickly dispatched. Sure could have used those Scorches and BLR-2C in that fight.

Edited by El Bandito, 06 July 2017 - 04:19 PM.

[Kaptain]

I actually really like T1... I have a positive win/loss ratio, Several close games a night, pretty good mech/build diversity.

[MadRover]

Kin3ticX, on 06 July 2017 - 02:42 PM, said:

Here lies my problem with tier 1. People are making it into tier 1 with barely barely average stats. Go ahead and look up the OP. According to work done by Taragato, the average player has a .98 KDR, a 1.0 W.L, and a ~200 avg matchscore. Potato is a relative term but the real potato demarcation line is somewhere inside the massive pool of tier1 players.

TLDR, this means players are getting to tier 1 and half of everyone in the game is still better than them. PGI is handing out Tier 1 like candybars. This game has 5 tiers! Wtf is going on?

Tier 1 is absolutely gigantic, more topheavy most everyone ever realized. Those games where you feel like the are full of t5s are probably loaded with tier 1s.

Its been proven you can get to tier 1 in an LRM atlas.

Why is this even a thing? By the time you reach tier 3 you are facing everyone on all levels (supposedly) and should also be a very large time sink. If tier 1 is being handed out like candy, what is the point of having a skill system in place when none exists anyway?

No wonder people cry in the forums after getting an *** kicking. They're fighting tier 1, 2s, and 3s who are way better than them instead of earning their way through the tier system by actually getting better.

[justcallme A S H]

Kin3ticX, on 06 July 2017 - 02:42 PM, said:

Here lies my problem with tier 1. People are making it into tier 1 with barely barely average stats. Go ahead and look up the OP. According to work done by Taragato, the average player has a .98 KDR, a 1.0 W.L, and a ~200 avg matchscore. Potato is a relative term but the real potato demarcation line is somewhere inside the massive pool of tier1 players.

TLDR, this means players are getting to tier 1 and half of everyone in the game is still better than them. PGI is handing out Tier 1 like candybars. This game has 5 tiers! Wtf is going on?

Tier 1 is absolutely gigantic, more topheavy most everyone ever realized. Those games where you feel like the are full of t5s are probably loaded with tier 1s.

Its been proven you can get to tier 1 in an LRM atlas.

100% agreed. The vast majority of people in "T1" should be in T3 at best. Problem being the "Match Maker" doesn't actually match anything properly so Tier doesn't really matter anyway.

El Bandito, on 06 July 2017 - 04:17 PM, said:

Yep just like this match. These [HEL] fools had waited way in the back in E7 with their Assaults, and only engaged after the rest of us were dead trying to hold E6.

Usual story really. Seen them do that constantly (or just base rush on incursion and fail, leaving us to actually win the game). A prime example of why people should not be in T1.

[AssaultPig]

patience up to a point is fine, but the more aggressive team is usually gonna win pub games. There's nothing worse than to see 3-4 mechs with fresh armor five minutes into a match, down 7-4 or whatever on kills.

that said it isn't really a tier problem; there aren't enough people in the pool to make T1-exclusive matches, or even matches with T1-3. I regularly get games with people who're obviously new, still figuring out the controls, unclear on how weapon range works, etc.

[Unendingmenace]

justcallme A S H, on 05 July 2017 - 10:09 PM, said:

Going from T2 to T1 makes little to no difference in the opponents you get though. It's just a free-for-all. When I play US Prime I am 100% getting T3 users in matches cause I know them.

You can most certainly still brawl either way. The problem is against half decent opponents you are no longer forgiven for being poorly positioned or showing bad restraint.

In lower tier matches (where it's mostly, lower tier) you can run around in a brawler however you want and people don't pay attention.

I can run around in a SRM MDD and still crank out 500dmg+ easily. It's all about knowing "when" and "where".



This. They don't know how to properly run a brawler.

100% This ^. In regards to brawling not working in "Tier 1": As Ash and others have said already in this thread it's all about patience and positioning. Brawling can be perfectly viable so long as you follow those rules.

The matchmaker in this game is a joke. From what I can gather, it's more about the players total play time rather then being about player performance.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Savage Wolf, on 05 July 2017 - 07:05 AM, said:

Problem is that some people like it. Maybe because that is how they earned their Tier 1 badge of honor for being good at the game.

I'm sure plenty like that style of play. I know I do, however the tier 1 thing stopped meaning anything almost immediately.

[The Lost Boy]

El Bandito, on 06 July 2017 - 04:17 PM, said:

Yep just like this match. These [HEL] fools had waited way in the back in E7 with their Assaults, and only engaged after the rest of us were dead trying to hold E6. Naturally they found themselves outnumbered and quickly dispatched. Sure could have used those Scorches and BLR-2C in that fight.

I have that match recorded and your team made "ZERO" atrempt to communicate until after you were dead. Had we ventured into the open earlier we get killed anyway. If your team had a plan for the match, why didnt you let the rest of the team in on it?

And this was group queue, where Tiers dont matter anyway.

Edited by Lemming of the BDA, 06 July 2017 - 08:39 PM.

[El Bandito]

Lemming of the BDA, on 06 July 2017 - 08:32 PM, said:

I have that match recorded and your team made "ZERO" atrempt to communicate until after you were dead. Had we ventured into the open earlier we get killed anyway. If your team had a plan for the match, why didnt you let the rest of the team in on it?

And this was group queue, where Tiers dont matter anyway.

What plan? Even T3-4 noobs know to gather at E6 spot for Tourmaline Desert when spawning on the north side--especially if they are brawlers. Your Scorches and BLR-2C all could go at 70 kph. There is no excuse for getting there after everyone else had died. Your lance contributed greatly to our loss simply because you were too scared to get your shiny Assault class armor scratched from afar--while most of the enemy had engaged the eight of us.

The fact another well known unit member knows about your screw ups tells me a great deal.

Edited by El Bandito, 06 July 2017 - 09:47 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Cardinal sin committed by too many players:

Not paying attention to the minimap and where the enemy pings are on it.

[The Lost Boy]

El Bandito, on 06 July 2017 - 09:37 PM, said:

What plan? Even T3-4 noobs know to gather at E6 spot for Tourmaline Desert when spawning on the north side--especially if they are brawlers. Your Scorches and BLR-2C all could go at 70 kph. There is no excuse for getting there after everyone else had died. Your lance contributed greatly to our loss simply because you were too scared to get your shiny Assault class armor scratched from afar--while most of the enemy had engaged the eight of us.

The fact another well known unit member knows about your screw ups tells me a great deal.

El Bandito, on 06 July 2017 - 09:37 PM, said:

What plan? Even T3-4 noobs know to gather at E6 spot for Tourmaline Desert when spawning on the north side--especially if they are brawlers. Your Scorches and BLR-2C all could go at 70 kph. There is no excuse for getting there after everyone else had died. Your lance contributed greatly to our loss simply because you were too scared to get your shiny Assault class armor scratched from afar--while most of the enemy had engaged the eight of us.

The fact another well known unit member knows about your screw ups tells me a great deal.

You guys should share your telepathic communication to the rest of the team.

If you guys are so 'leet what happened? You didnt make ANY comms attempt then blame others for your lack of preformance?
Ive NEVER made any allusion that I am a great player. Maybe when your unit has the most on a drop, it should attempt to LEAD. Communication is a vital part of leading. Sometimes 5 or 6 can carry a whole team, sometimes 1 or 2. Sometimes its hopeless no matter what.

Get over yourselves, its a video game.
What was your excuse for loosing the match after that one? When we were on opp sides?

Ill post the match on my youtube then folks can decide for themseves.

Edited by Lemming of the BDA, 06 July 2017 - 10:13 PM.

[MustrumRidcully]

Well, the tier rating system is not an ELO rating system. The way it's set up it is hard to actually lose your rating. You would basically need to be so bad that you can't be carried most of your matches. Not even me is that bad.

The only thing the the Tier system does is to seperate the newbies from the long term players.

[UnofficialOperator]

They should really go back to 4v4 or 8v8 and re-tier everyone. Pretty sure I'm literally T3/middle of bell curve