184 replies to this topic

[MechaBattler]

Something I didn't see get much address is the IS LBX line up. The only reason I saw to run them is less heat and a higher velocity. In the case of the LBX20 firing two did not seem to incur the same ghost heat as regular ACs. However in practice it is still inferior to 2xAC20 and not worth the 11 slot restriction. So what are they really good for?

Edited by MechaBattler, 05 July 2017 - 02:28 PM.

[Wintersdark]

J0anna, on 05 July 2017 - 02:18 PM, said:

It is a nerf, previously it allowed you to lead your target, shoot and rapidly twist to spread the inevitable incoming damage. Now you have to hold face time until all missiles are out, allowing your opponents to pour more damage into you before you can twist (or you twist and even less of your missiles head to where you want them).

Except that it doesn't work that way. If your target is moving perpenticularly to you, you'd fire and twist, sure... But those missiles would fly in a straight stream. You could not then hit your target with the whole volley - if the first missiles hit, the targets forward movement would take him too far forward for the rear missiles to hit. It prevented good target leading. As well, it was wierd and janky - fire and twist, and you've got a stream of missiles shooting out of the side of your mech. That's just silly.

Ripper X, on 05 July 2017 - 02:18 PM, said:

It's a nerf on how they were being used effectively. They were brawling weapons. Fire and torso twist. They should not be used like SRMS.

They're dumbfire weapons, not tracking weapons. They fire where you aim.

Would you really want lasers to fire where you clicked for their whole direction, even if you adjust your aim, twist, or whatever else? It'd be silly.

They should fire where they are aimed, as the missile fires. Just like how lasers work, and how burst UAC's work, and unguided LRM's, etc.

MechaBattler, on 05 July 2017 - 02:28 PM, said:

Something I didn't see get much address is the IS LBX line up. The only reason I saw to run them is less heat and a higher velocity. In the case of the LBX20 firing two did not seem to incur the same ghost heat as regular ACs. However in practice it is still inferior to 2xAC20 and not worth the 11 slot restriction. So what are they really good for?

Dodging ghost heat, that's about it. Ultimately, it's the same problem with Clan LBX's, except Clans don't have proper autocannons so you can't see how bad the LBX's are there =/ Be glad you've got a good alternative if you want PPFLD.

[Jep Jorgensson]

"Artemis upgrade no longer improperly applies a bonus to MRM's, ATM's, and Rocket Launchers." -PGI

While I am pretty sure putting that on MRM's and RL's is supposed to be impossible, ATM's are supposed to have Artemis built into them which is why they can only lock-on and fire if they have LOS on their target. So does this mean that PGI is ripping it out of them and Lore be damned? While it would still be par for the course for PGI, it would also still be a d!ck move on their part on top of everything else.

[cougurt]

J0anna, on 05 July 2017 - 02:18 PM, said:

It is a nerf, previously it allowed you to lead your target, shoot and rapidly twist to spread the inevitable incoming damage. Now you have to hold face time until all missiles are out, allowing your opponents to pour more damage into you before you can twist (or you twist and even less of your missiles head to where you want them).

they're now working how i expected they would. it's arguably a nerf, but it helps solidify them as a medium range weapon as well as improving their usability in many situations.

Jep Jorgensson, on 05 July 2017 - 02:35 PM, said:

"Artemis upgrade no longer improperly applies a bonus to MRM's, ATM's, and Rocket Launchers." -PGI

While I am pretty sure putting that on MRM's and RL's is supposed to be impossible, ATM's are supposed to have Artemis built into them which is why they can only lock-on and fire if they have LOS on their target. So does this mean that PGI is ripping it out of them and Lore be damned? While it would still be par for the course for PGI, it would also still be a d!ck move on their part on top of everything else.

it means nothing for ATMs as their built-in artemis is meaningless in MWO terms. their functionality will remain the same.

Edited by cougurt, 05 July 2017 - 02:44 PM.

[C E Dwyer]

cougurt, on 05 July 2017 - 02:37 PM, said:

they're now working how i expected they would. it's arguably a nerf, but it helps solidify them as a medium range weapon as well as improving their usability in many situations.

It also means potato's can use them

[Ripper X]

Wintersdark, on 05 July 2017 - 02:32 PM, said:

Except that it doesn't work that way. If your target is moving perpenticularly to you, you'd fire and twist, sure... But those missiles would fly in a straight stream. You could not then hit your target with the whole volley - if the first missiles hit, the targets forward movement would take him too far forward for the rear missiles to hit. It prevented good target leading. As well, it was wierd and janky - fire and twist, and you've got a stream of missiles shooting out of the side of your mech. That's just silly.


They're dumbfire weapons, not tracking weapons. They fire where you aim.

Would you really want lasers to fire where you clicked for their whole direction, even if you adjust your aim, twist, or whatever else? It'd be silly.

They should fire where they are aimed, as the missile fires. Just like how lasers work, and how burst UAC's work, and unguided LRM's, etc.

Actually I wholly agree with you. That is why I said they shouldn't be used like SRMs.

[Mineirinho]

Hi PGI,

Always a pleasure help the team.

Good job.

[Wintersdark]

Jep Jorgensson, on 05 July 2017 - 02:35 PM, said:

"Artemis upgrade no longer improperly applies a bonus to MRM's, ATM's, and Rocket Launchers." -PGI

While I am pretty sure putting that on MRM's and RL's is supposed to be impossible, ATM's are supposed to have Artemis built into them which is why they can only lock-on and fire if they have LOS on their target. So does this mean that PGI is ripping it out of them and Lore be damned? While it would still be par for the course for PGI, it would also still be a d!ck move on their part on top of everything else.

Errr, irrelevant. All that matters is the final stats. ATM's have artemis built in, but they're not affected by your mech's artemis upgrade. Get the difference? ATM's fire using their listed stats, and those stats include the "built in" artemis.

The problem right now is adding Artemis to your mech (or not) changes the ATM's stats, and that SHOULDN'T happen because... *drum roll* Artemis is built in.

In other words, ATM's having Artemis built in is purely fluff, it doesn't DO anything. The ATM's just have the stats they should have, and those shouldn't change whether your other missile systems have artemis or not.

[Twilight Fenrir]

mycroft000, on 05 July 2017 - 02:17 PM, said:

I think you all missed the joke...

Edit: Also, NNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOO!!!! Leave the PTS up, I want to get my 30 loot bags and move back to the PTS to play for the next two weeks.

No kidding! The PTS was hella fun! It also helps having smaller groups I really wish we had an option for 4v4, and 8v8 with regular quick drops...

[Jagd Wolf]

I'm wondering if they were able to remove the coolshot symbol from the right leg omnipod list.

[o0cipher0o]

Especially glad to see the change on MRMs, nowit will be possible to properly use them against lights and faster mediums.
And looking forward for the other changes' announcements.

P.S.: yeah, it would really be nice to have smaller sized matches in QP too.

[Mycroft000]

Ripper X, on 05 July 2017 - 02:18 PM, said:

It's a nerf on how they were being used effectively. They were brawling weapons. Fire and torso twist. They should not be used like SRMS.

With this change, they're better in some ways than SRMS, and worse in others.

The previous version where you could fire and torso twist away doesn't make sense for an unguided missile system. Unguided should go where it's pointed, not be a fire and forget.

[blackcatf]

Jep Jorgensson, on 05 July 2017 - 02:35 PM, said:

ATM's ... can only lock-on and fire if they have LOS on their target.

Pretty sure that you can dumb fire ATMs just like LRMs (i.e. I may have accidentally pulled the trigger on some ATMs without a lock a couple of times and seen 3-12 expensive missiles smash hard into the dirt in front of me). When I read "lock-on and fire" it sounds to me like you're talking about how Streak SRMs work. Maybe I just misread what you were saying.

[MechaBattler]

Wintersdark, on 05 July 2017 - 02:32 PM, said:

Except that it doesn't work that way. If your target is moving perpenticularly to you, you'd fire and twist, sure... But those missiles would fly in a straight stream. You could not then hit your target with the whole volley - if the first missiles hit, the targets forward movement would take him too far forward for the rear missiles to hit. It prevented good target leading. As well, it was wierd and janky - fire and twist, and you've got a stream of missiles shooting out of the side of your mech. That's just silly.


They're dumbfire weapons, not tracking weapons. They fire where you aim.

Would you really want lasers to fire where you clicked for their whole direction, even if you adjust your aim, twist, or whatever else? It'd be silly.

They should fire where they are aimed, as the missile fires. Just like how lasers work, and how burst UAC's work, and unguided LRM's, etc.


Dodging ghost heat, that's about it. Ultimately, it's the same problem with Clan LBX's, except Clans don't have proper autocannons so you can't see how bad the LBX's are there =/ Be glad you've got a good alternative if you want PPFLD.

The difference being our LBXs take more slots than their regular AC counterparts. With the IS LBX20 taking up 11 crit slots. That means it has to be shoulder mounted and run with a standard engine.

[Mycroft000]

Why can't the BSW mount an LB20x?
BSW-L1 The L1 variant of the Bushwacker is a configuration that changes the 'Mech to a close combat unit. The only long range weapon on the L1 variant is an ER Large Laser. For close combat, the L1 carries an LB-X Autocannon/20that can fire either standard or cluster ammunition, adding versatility to the crippling firepower of this extremely deadly close combat weapon. Two and a half tons of additional armor was added to the BSW-L1, giving excellent armor protection. The L1 saw its engine upgraded to a Light Fusion Engine for increased survivability. BV (1.0) = 1,342^[6][7] (1,264)^[8], BV (2.0) = 1,513^[9]

[ExtremeA79]

Are heavy lasers getting changed colors

[TankBadger42]

Great to see all my biggest gripes fixed.

I've got opinions on other stuff, but from that you have fixed all the stuff which I felt must be fixed before launch.

[Rekkon]

AngrySpartan, on 05 July 2017 - 02:01 PM, said:

Learn the basic's before making offensive claims. HE ammo doesn't have minimum, and since ammo swap is simulated by damage fallof...

Perhaps you can reciprocate by learning the basics of apostrophe usage.

[Wintersdark]

MechaBattler, on 05 July 2017 - 03:56 PM, said:

The difference being our LBXs take more slots than their regular AC counterparts. With the IS LBX20 taking up 11 crit slots. That means it has to be shoulder mounted and run with a standard engine.

so do clan lbx's. But I acknowledged this earlier, and is why I was saying lbx's are terrible choices when regular AC's are available. The only reason clan lbx's get used is because the aren't regular AC's to compare them against =/

IS side, you'll never want to use lbx's, because PGI will never make them worth using. PGI still believes "crit weapon" is a role (when the "crit weapon" is worse at actually doing that than the regular version)

[Navid A1]

omg... MRMs are going to be so so useless.

Have fun face tanking for the whole duration of the missile stream.
A torso twist now will potentially cause much unintentional friendly fire.

At least with all missiles going to the same spot, you could fire and twist with no problem... to hell with missiles coming out sideways from your mech... we're talking about the viability of an entire weapon system

You wouldn't be using MRMs for tracking fast movers with that wide spread missile cloud. Then why you nerfed its only advantage in brawls?... Because it looks cooler now?... WHY?
Were they THAT much OP in brawls?

Edited by Navid A1, 05 July 2017 - 08:11 PM.