184 replies to this topic

[Psycho Cop]

ExtremeA79, on 05 July 2017 - 04:03 PM, said:

Are heavy lasers getting changed colors

A slight darker hue might be nice.

[Widowmaker1981]

Why must RACs have ghost heat? Even if you have fixed the bugs, giving them gh on more than 2 cannons invalidates them for use on any mech heavier than ~55 tons, because they have such a specific firing profile that really does not synergise with any other weapon that making any mixed weapon build involving them is called making a crap mech.

They are hot - so no synergy with lasers in the normal way ACs/Gauss do.
They require face staring so no synergy with PPCs.
they have 2/3 of the time as downtime due to the mechnics, so they dont synergise with MGs or Flamers which need full uptime really. Those are the best synergising weapons though, and due to those weapons being extremely light, it doesnt increase the tonnage of the mechs that can viably mount them.

I was looking forward to using RACs on assaults, and with this setup i cannot in any way justify it. Its much more effective to mass UACs than to mix UACs with RACs due to the firing profile.

[Genesis23]

Widowmaker1981, on 06 July 2017 - 03:56 AM, said:

I was looking forward to using RACs on assaults, and with this setup i cannot in any way justify it. Its much more effective to mass UACs than to mix UACs with RACs due to the firing profile.

agreed. sounds good in theory, but in practise its rather "meh", if not "wuaaargh". they dont even work on a shadow hawk in a support/supressing role since they need too much space to use an xl engine and an standart with that tonnage and weapon weight would be slower than most of the heavier mechs. and an assault boating them would be way undergunned and too unreliable, even without ghost heat, or am i wrong (looking at a mauler for example)?

[Twilight Fenrir]

Genesis23, on 06 July 2017 - 04:23 AM, said:

agreed. sounds good in theory, but in practise its rather "meh", if not "wuaaargh". they dont even work on a shadow hawk in a support/supressing role since they need too much space to use an xl engine and an standart with that tonnage and weapon weight would be slower than most of the heavier mechs. and an assault boating them would be way undergunned and too unreliable, even without ghost heat, or am i wrong (looking at a mauler for example)?

Not all weapons need to be boated... I saw an Atlas using a RAC5+RAC2, in addition to more standard weapons, pretty effectively on the PTS. I didn't play with RACs myself though, they're not really my style...

[Reno Blade]

Twilight Fenrir, on 06 July 2017 - 04:26 AM, said:

Not all weapons need to be boated... I saw an Atlas using a RAC5+RAC2, in addition to more standard weapons, pretty effectively on the PTS. I didn't play with RACs myself though, they're not really my style...

This.

RAC, MRM, ATM and Heavy lasers are more build around lower numbers than the smaller weapons that can be "boated".
I'm looking forward to all of these, including RACs.

[HGAK47]

While I wouldnt want 4 v 4`s all the time as I love the big 12 v 12 battles too, having the option for something more up close and personal like that would be such a boon to the game! I can actually see Solaris being a hell of a lot of fun if it allows for smaller battles like this, 1v1, 2v2, 4v4 FFA etc... Just dont forget about the 12 v 12 experience too.

PTS was good but I didnt get chance to spend the time on it I had hoped for as the event took what time I had to play mostly. Really wish PTS sessions were longer. Happy that you are making smart changes and look forward to release.

[DeeHawk]

HGAK47, on 06 July 2017 - 04:50 AM, said:

While I wouldnt want 4 v 4`s all the time as I love the big 12 v 12 battles too, having the option for something more up close and personal like that would be such a boon to the game! I can actually see Solaris being a hell of a lot of fun if it allows for smaller battles like this, 1v1, 2v2, 4v4 FFA etc... Just dont forget about the 12 v 12 experience too.

PTS was good but I didnt get chance to spend the time on it I had hoped for as the event took what time I had to play mostly. Really wish PTS sessions were longer. Happy that you are making smart changes and look forward to release.

Did you try the new 8vs8 Competetive mode then?

[Odanan]

InnerSphereNews, on 05 July 2017 - 01:27 PM, said:

• MRM fire will properly track the targeting reticle.

OK, but have you PGI guys considered making the MRMs wire-guided? I mean, after shooting, they follow (in a limited way) where you are aiming at. That would be a cool new mechanic for these weapons, setting them apart from the other missiles. (wire-guided missiles were introduced before in some video games, like in Battlefield 2 and Half Life II)

[Twilight Fenrir]

Reno Blade, on 06 July 2017 - 04:33 AM, said:

This.

RAC, MRM, ATM and Heavy lasers are more build around lower numbers than the smaller weapons that can be "boated".
I'm looking forward to all of these, including RACs.

And a lot of the new weapons are good space fillers... A lot of IS mechs have very mixed hard points, and I often find myself with a few extra tons, but no real appropriate weapons to add... Rocket Launchers, light PPCs, MRMs, Micro lasers, light/heavy MGs, these are all small, light weapons that will really help round out a mech better.

My Founder's Atlas will be relevant again, thanks largely to MRMs. The SRMs I had in there almost never got used. There weren't enough of them to make a serious dent, and their limited range in a 46KPH mech (that's WITH speed tweak XD) just made them less than ideal... But there was nothing else to put there... Two MRM10s though, fit in with the rest of my range profile, at basically the same weight, and roughly the same damage.

I think people are underestimating the impact the Heavy Medium Lasers are likely to have on the game... The Heavy Large aren't particularly promising, but HMLs will usher in some truly vicious builds...

Edited by Twilight Fenrir, 06 July 2017 - 05:47 AM.

[Genesis23]

yes, some weapons are good fillers for unused hardpoints or tonnage but the RAC's are none of them. they build heat up too fast and cant used with the accuracy other system provide, and have several weaknesses in general. im curious about the builds people come up with but as i see it, it will have the same downside as 2xUAC5 on my orion (orion V? VA? the one with jam quirks) with srm and lasers had: too much heat and no pause to cool down or at least less heat on top of that like other options would have in the same build - like ac20, ac10, lbx10. oh and last but not least, the later options dont force you to stare at the opponent and facetank every bit of dmg they throw at you.

or for those who dont want to read much: im rather sceptical. curious, but sceptical.

[Reno Blade]

Odanan, on 06 July 2017 - 05:29 AM, said:

[/list]OK, but have you PGI guys considered making the MRMs wire-guided? I mean, after shooting, they follow (in a limited way) where you are aiming at. That would be a cool new mechanic for these weapons, setting them apart from the other missiles. (wire-guided missiles were introduced before in some video games, like in Battlefield 2 and Half Life II)

Isn't that how MW:LL did the MRMs?
I really liked them for this reason, but also LRM/Arrorw-IV following a NARC beacon was really cool .

Not sure if MWO could handle it the same way, but at least it's a cool idea.
Even so, I will use MRMs on some builds with low hard points now and I'm looking forward to all the tuning that is to come.

[Widowmaker1981]

Twilight Fenrir, on 06 July 2017 - 04:26 AM, said:

Not all weapons need to be boated... I saw an Atlas using a RAC5+RAC2, in addition to more standard weapons, pretty effectively on the PTS. I didn't play with RACs myself though, they're not really my style...

that is... impossible since RAC2 + RAC5 activated insane ghost heat in the last playable PTS build.

RACs DO need to be boated, because any mixed build involving them would be vastly better with UACs instead.

Literally the ONLY mech in the game i would consider using them on with GH limited to 2 is the Bushwacker with 2xRAC5

[DESTRUKTROTRON]

Widowmaker1981, on 06 July 2017 - 07:52 AM, said:

that is... impossible since RAC2 + RAC5 activated insane ghost heat in the last playable PTS build.

RACs DO need to be boated, because any mixed build involving them would be vastly better with UACs instead.

Literally the ONLY mech in the game i would consider using them on with GH limited to 2 is the Bushwacker with 2xRAC5

nah dawg. I took 2 rac/2 and 2 rac/5 on my king crab to good effect. I just had to learn how to sync my fire between the two weapons. I was able to do it a jagermech and get 3 kills with a rac/2 and a rac/5. They're annoying and have a learning curb but races are useable. They're just situational, like most of the new IS weapons.

[Widowmaker1981]

DESTRUKTROTRON, on 06 July 2017 - 08:00 AM, said:

nah dawg. I took 2 rac/2 and 2 rac/5 on my king crab to good effect. I just had to learn how to sync my fire between the two weapons. I was able to do it a jagermech and get 3 kills with a rac/2 and a rac/5. They're annoying and have a learning curb but races are useable. They're just situational, like most of the new IS weapons.

You could have just taken 4xUAC5 and had the ability to snapfire, longer range, cooler running, better initial burst, no built in spread and had it be much easier to use, without losing any DPS. For the same tonnage and 2 more slots.

just because you managed to use something effectively doesnt mean other builds wouldnt have been better.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 06 July 2017 - 08:12 AM.

[Submersible Fox]

Honestly I'm excited for RACs on the main server, cause everyone saying they're bad has good points, but with the fix to RAC ghost heat, the King Crab has some real potential to just kinda, roll up to your face and unleash the dakka... I kinda figure that's a build we'll be seeing a lot of... That and the super-dakka Annihilator.

[Mycroft000]

Odanan, on 06 July 2017 - 05:29 AM, said:

[/list]OK, but have you PGI guys considered making the MRMs wire-guided? I mean, after shooting, they follow (in a limited way) where you are aiming at. That would be a cool new mechanic for these weapons, setting them apart from the other missiles. (wire-guided missiles were introduced before in some video games, like in Battlefield 2 and Half Life II)

• MRM fire will properly track the targeting reticle.

I'm pretty sure this means exactly what you're asking for.

Edit: Never mind, reading comprehension failure there.

Edited by mycroft000, 06 July 2017 - 08:42 AM.

[Twilight Fenrir]

Widowmaker1981, on 06 July 2017 - 08:07 AM, said:

You could have just taken 4xUAC5 and had the ability to snapfire, longer range, cooler running, better initial burst, no built in spread and had it be much easier to use, without losing any DPS. For the same tonnage and 2 more slots.

just because you managed to use something effectively doesnt mean other builds wouldnt have been better.

And just because there are things that are better doesn't mean it's still not fun I was running around in a dual H Gauss Widowmaker towards the end of PTS. Is it the best build for it? Heck no! But it's amusing as all getout... Like putting an AC20 on a Raven 4X. (another favorite fun build of mine... No one expects an AC20 Raven, lol)

Submersible Fox, on 06 July 2017 - 08:32 AM, said:

Honestly I'm excited for RACs on the main server, cause everyone saying they're bad has good points, but with the fix to RAC ghost heat, the King Crab has some real potential to just kinda, roll up to your face and unleash the dakka... I kinda figure that's a build we'll be seeing a lot of... That and the super-dakka Annihilator.

God I'm excited for the Fafnir.... Errr... Annihilator I plan on building mine like a Fafnir, but finally the Dire Wolf will be out Dakka'd.

[Widowmaker1981]

Twilight Fenrir, on 06 July 2017 - 08:46 AM, said:

And just because there are things that are better doesn't mean it's still not fun I was running around in a dual H Gauss Widowmaker towards the end of PTS. Is it the best build for it? Heck no! But it's amusing as all getout... Like putting an AC20 on a Raven 4X. (another favorite fun build of mine... No one expects an AC20 Raven, lol)

I dislike that logic because this isnt a single player game - if it was id be absolutely fine with fun but sub par weapons for the same reason im fine with playing on higher difficulty settings. Its not, though, and having weapons be off limts if you care about doing as well as possible in a pvp 'competitive' environment is really, really annoying. Especailly since with the current stats i think the RACs are in about the right place, dps wise, to account for their drawbacks, if they just removed ghost heat from them.

[Twilight Fenrir]

Widowmaker1981, on 06 July 2017 - 08:54 AM, said:

I dislike that logic because this isnt a single player game - if it was id be absolutely fine with fun but sub par weapons for the same reason im fine with playing on higher difficulty settings. Its not, though, and having weapons be off limts if you care about doing as well as possible in a pvp 'competitive' environment is really, really annoying. Especailly since with the current stats i think the RACs are in about the right place, dps wise, to account for their drawbacks, if they just removed ghost heat from them.

Eh, I've been playing since there were only 5 mechs in the game. Jenner, Hunchie, Catapult, Atlas, and Dragon. I've got a dozen or so mechs I can consistently pull 750+ damage per match in now. But I can't play a game for however many years it's been without some catharsis builds... And just because they're silly doesn't mean they don't work... A 6 SRM6 Jenner IIC is hardly Meta, but with a little luck, I can get behind the enemy team, and one-shot-kill their entire assault lance before someone catches on to what I'm doing... My Viper does the same thing

Still, I'm rather flippant I admit... I don't care very much if my team wins or loses, as long as I get a minimum of 450 damage I'm reasonably happy. Or, failing that, if I managed to squirrel half the enemy team, and die gloriously I'm alright too

If it makes you feel any better... I don't ever run just straight up BAD mechs. I'll never take a mech with one or two pointa of armor on all components... I just enjoy defying convention. I'll never forget the day I rolled up to a quad gauss Dire Wolf, and punched him in the head with an AC20 round from my Raven, killing him instantly... The rage and profanity that followed still nourish me to this day, lol. Or those days are you pull 1200 damage in a Locust...

Edited by Twilight Fenrir, 06 July 2017 - 09:15 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Twilight Fenrir, on 06 July 2017 - 08:46 AM, said:

but finally the Dire Wolf will be out Dakka'd.

Well, the annihilator will be the king of (IS) dakka, but id say the build will be something like this:

KGC-000B

Pretend its the ANH-2A model (1B per arm, 2B per ST)

• Move both UAC5s from the LA to the LT
  
• Swap the LL+2xMPL for a UAC5 in the RT ( same tonnage +1 slot)
  
• move one UAC5 from the RA to the RT.

2 slots left overall, which are taken by the fact that the ANH-2A has lower arm actuators.

I doubt it will use any new tech.

In terms of dakka (hgauss are not dakka) 2xUAC5 + 2xUAC10 might also be good, but any 4B build will probably be better on the Nightstar soon due to geometry