63 replies to this topic

[Scout Derek]

Metus regem, on 13 July 2017 - 10:39 AM, said:

Heh MW4; Mercs had noting on the economic harshness of MW2; Mercs... Mw2; Mercs you're company either lived or folded based on salvage. C-bills were largely irreverent, as they vanished so quickly with repairs, jump-ship travel to combat areas and paying your staff....

Yep. Haven't said mw2 much because I haven't played it in years. need to replay it....

[Khobai]

not having customization sounds good to me

look at how badly customization has screwed up MWO and other mechwarrior games in the past

yeah customization is fun but it creates irreparable balance issues and metas where only certain weapons are viable

and it leads to boating and makes mixed loadouts largely ineffective

[Kaeb Odellas]

Khobai, on 13 July 2017 - 01:10 PM, said:

not having customization sounds good to me

look at how badly customization has screwed up MWO and other mechwarrior games in the past

yeah customization is fun but it creates irreparable balance issues and metas where only certain weapons are viable

and it leads to boating and makes mixed loadouts largely ineffective

Customization is only a problem for multiplayer. No one cares if you want to min-max or run bracket builds in a single player campaign.

[Felicitatem Parco]

I would be very disappointed if there was no Mechlab because of this very reason:

AI can never get mad at you for boating or creating cheesy builds, so nobody can get offended by your frankenbuild.

[Mister Glitchdragon]

Greyhart, on 13 July 2017 - 02:42 AM, said:

I think it likely we will see MWO be replaced with an online MW5, could be a migration a new MWO2 or anywhere in between. So would need to balance PvP not just PvE.

If they stay with 3025 in a new online component, I'd like them to do away with MW:O's "whatever you can afford" mechlab entirely. More in line with the flavor of 3rd Succession War tech, there should be fixed weapons on each mech, with variants and different mechs affording limited variety.

More focus on players' skill than their hardware, no more "boat builds," plus much easier to balance overall.

[FupDup]

Mister Glitchdragon, on 13 July 2017 - 01:47 PM, said:

If they stay with 3025 in a new online component, I'd like them to do away with MW:O's "whatever you can afford" mechlab entirely. More in line with the flavor of 3rd Succession War tech, there should be fixed weapons on each mech, with variants and different mechs affording limited variety.

More focus on players' skill than their hardware, no more "boat builds," plus much easier to balance overall.

Picking the right tools for the right job is a skill in and of itself...provided that said equipment is balanced such that it's not blatantly obvious which tools are the right ones.

[Tarl Cabot]

Tincan Nightmare, on 13 July 2017 - 10:44 AM, said:

MW1

Also include GEnie MPBT 3025 (EGA), MPBT Solaris and MPBT 3025.

[Sjorpha]

Hopefully there will be a mechlab but you'll be restricted by refit time, cost and availability of items. Maybe you have to use salvaged items for most of your equipment and the market only has very limited range of items.

The result should be mechs evolving over time as you salvage interesting new equipment or are forced to replace things that have broken with something else because there is no spare copy of that thing available.

I really want to see very harsh economic conditions in MW5, you should sometimes be forced to drop with unrepaired mechs and and so on because you don't have time and/or money to fix them up in time for the mission. A little like ironman mode in Xcom when your good characters are wounded or kidnapped etc.

There could also be second hand equipment that are cheaper but not working perfectly and so on.

Lot's of immersive roleplay and economic options to limit a mechlab in a single player game, that's a better route that putting too much hard limits on what you can do.

[davoodoo]

Greyhart, on 13 July 2017 - 02:42 AM, said:

1. as MWO
2. as MW4
3. As MW2+3
4. other

5. as tt.

Edited by davoodoo, 13 July 2017 - 03:02 PM.

[FupDup]

davoodoo, on 13 July 2017 - 03:01 PM, said:

5. as tt.

In TT this is generally governed by house rules, aka it's very inconsistent.

Some people allow from the ground up mech rebuilding no questions asked, some allow modest changes, some allow refitting of damaged mechs (replace destroyed equipment with completely different stuff), some follow the Strategic Operations refit rules and literally wait several months of real life time before they can use their mech again, some don't allow any kind of modifications period, some don't even let you choose which stock mechs you use, etc.

[davoodoo]

FupDup, on 13 July 2017 - 03:07 PM, said:

In TT this is generally governed by house rules, aka it's very inconsistent.

Some people allow from the ground up mech rebuilding no questions asked, some allow modest changes, some allow refitting of damaged mechs (replace destroyed equipment with completely different stuff), some follow the Strategic Operations refit rules and literally wait several months of real life time before they can use their mech again, some don't allow any kind of modifications period, some don't even let you choose which stock mechs you use, etc.

There are rules in tt for your own mech construction.

What i generally mean is mwo system without hardpoint limitations and extra engine slots(past 250) with fun rules like crit sharing.
Also im fine with waiting for refit/repairs, its not like mw4 had such timeskips, let them affect side missions or reroll procedurally generated missions("steal supplies from x", "destroy x patrol" style grind missions)

Edited by davoodoo, 13 July 2017 - 03:22 PM.

[Greyhart]

OK peoples

Of course within the context of the game I would love a harsh economy and all that brings in terms of limiting build.

But the question is specifically about the mech lab and the amount of customisation inherent in that.

Should you be able to make a mech that has lasers in the legs or should their be set locations for set weapons?

Should you be able to replace an SRM2 with an LRM20?

How would you work the mechlab to reach a goal of say not encouraging boating?

You could have quirks for each hard point. So a Warhammers arms have a PPC quirk but the energy hard points on the torso do not.

[davoodoo]

I dont think you should discourage boating, at least not beyond what heat already does.

Mediums will always be better at close range than larges simply because they have positive heat/dmg ratio.
Bigger more open maps will naturally discourage you from putting only mediums as you will get toast before you can even get within range.
Heavy energy weapons will simply generate too much heat for too little dmg so anything with mediums which will get within range should have no problem dealing with them.

Sure i can make 6 cerppc 100 tonner which does 60 dmg at 0 heat, but whats that?? a atlas with 2 uac20 and 8 mediums rushing at me to deal 120 dmg??

Edited by davoodoo, 14 July 2017 - 04:49 AM.

[LordNothing]

Greyhart, on 13 July 2017 - 03:01 AM, said:

I am not sure what that means to be honest. Suggests a more restrictive mechlab not that there will be none at all. see next paragraph:

"While Bullock wasn't able to go too deep into detail, he did suggest that along with mech customization, players could expect to also have a degree of control over the mercenaries they hire, what they pilot, and how their lances are formed."

mech customization has always meant changing weapons and loadout.

way it seems to me is that mech builds are going to be some kind of teching out. you aquire a chassis and over the course of various missions you tech it out with salvage. that part in the mech con video where the tech is discussing a broken actuator and the fact that they are out of missiles seems to indicate that the build of any mech you own will change based on mission outcomes. like getting a new weapon system or fixing something you trashed in the last mission. rather than going into a mech lab and instantly fitting out a mech, that it instead has to be done over several missions. if this is true it could be fairly interesting.

unlike mwo they get one shot to make it right, you might see a few point releases as with any other game, but thats it.

Edited by LordNothing, 14 July 2017 - 05:41 AM.

[davoodoo]

LordNothing, on 14 July 2017 - 05:39 AM, said:

that part in the mech con video where the tech is discussing a broken actuator and the fact that they are out of missiles seems to indicate that the build of any mech you own will change based on mission outcomes.

Or it was simply an intro heavily scripted story mission and it tried to show you how ******* poor you are before lucrative contract just fallen from the sky.

Edited by davoodoo, 14 July 2017 - 05:44 AM.

[LordNothing]

davoodoo, on 14 July 2017 - 05:43 AM, said:

Or it was simply an intro story mission and it tried to show you how ******* poor you are before lucrative contract just fallen from the sky.

that could be the case. but a progressive build system would be completely different and might be interesting.

[davoodoo]

LordNothing, on 14 July 2017 - 05:44 AM, said:

that could be the case. but a progressive build system would be completely different and might be interesting.

Tbh i expect nothing more than mw4, you start with few lights/mediums or maybe even your only mech and build up, salvaging/buying standard mechs and components and fitting them up.

Edited by davoodoo, 14 July 2017 - 05:52 AM.

[Smokewolf]

I would argue that without some sort of customization and some sort of mechlab, it would not be a MechWarrior game. I like the sized hardpoint system that MW4 used. No putting an ac20 where a machine gun is supposed to be.

Also, I would really like to hear some kind of word about MW5 from PGI. Even if it is just, "Yes, we are still in development and working on making a great game." type statement.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Greyhart, on 13 July 2017 - 02:42 AM, said:

As there is no MW5 forum.

The only from MW5 a Trailer with manxy HBS Assets ...thats all in the last 7 months..all infos deadline

how do you think the mech lab in MW5 should work?

1. as MWO
2. as MW4
3. As MW2+3
4. other

Just want to know peoples thought.

Also who knows if there is a strong consensus it might be early enough to be implemented.

and as a final thought. I think it likely we will see MWO be replaced with an online MW5, could be a migration a new MWO2 or anywhere in between. So would need to balance PvP not just PvE.

seeing the MW5 Websites for News by facebook and Twitter
http://www.mw5mercs.com/
https://www.facebook.com/mw5mercs
https://twitter.com/MW5Mercs
last news from PGI 4 December 2016

What Russ says all to the mWO Founder ,what for a Hellf**** game MWO in Future ,and what for great Features , the best MW game ever ,and the famous Faction war ...now ,only in teh moment a Cbill grind Arena Shooter with Mechlab ,many Bugs and a terrible UI ,Performance (Bottlebneck Servercalculation) and Hitreg...buy a mechpack

Yeah ...Russ hear thats UE 4 can make procedual Terrain (a Feature thats in the Moment not good looking for Games ...its good for Landscape editors like Vue ...for Gameengines good in 10-20 Years) and forget ...To find Workers for his Dreams and visions ...Has GI Workers for MW5 ? or all going to better comapnys ? City Maps for MWO for this Team to difficult says Russ, and this team bring MW5????UE4 not very better as Cry 5.1 (his has other features for good , in others Features Cry better)and nothing gameengine can created alone a Game

...Which MW5 from a Company ,thats after Five Years not can script a AI ?! can only mak Routes for targets and simple Turrescript Counterfire like the Academy Mechs

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 16 July 2017 - 02:21 AM.

[Greyhart]

I don't think you can call PGI a feature of the game.