675 replies to this topic

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Mecrutio, on 15 July 2017 - 01:55 PM, said:

*cough* higher Time to Kill is *always* a good thing *cough*

Lasers are hotter, have lower damage, or longer burn times/cooldown? That means a higher TTK

Gauss/PPC PPFLD nerfed? Higher TTK

One should not be able to kill a mech in 1-2 volleys, it's supposed to take a concentrated effort from multiple mechs to take down an opposing mech with any speed. 1v1 duels are supposed to be slug fests, not just a 1-2 alpha through the CT.

Could these problems be fixed via a proper heat scale? ya, for sure. But we're not going to get that.
Could these problems be fixed via the implementation of a BV system? Absolutely, but it probably won't happen.

So in the mean time *anything* that increase Time to Kill is a *good* thing. If you want to be able to one-shot you targets, you're playing the wrong game. So yes, we will probably see an increase in laser vomit, and yes PGI will probably nerf their heat or ghost heat, which will increase TTK. Nerfing things is better than Buffing things as buffing things to compete with high performing weapons or mechs leads to power creep, which no one wants.

meteorol, on 15 July 2017 - 01:16 PM, said:

The fact that you are contradicting yourself within a span of two sentences aside...
Dude, your reading comprehension failed on the whole line here. I mean, it's nice you wrote a wall of text and stuff, but if you didn't understand a single word of what i actually said, you should be a tad bit slower to call things "ridiculous ramblings".

I will quote my final verdict again, so maybe, after reading it twice, you will be able to understand what i actually said:

.

So, because i have learned you are somewhat unable to read what people actually post before going on "ridiculous ramblings", i'll write stuff down in bullet posts, so you can understand it.

• Gauss/PPC for IS is currently utter ****, because IS has a massive tech disadvantage. The IS ER PPC is so bad it can be buffed to 1900 m/s velocity without actually linking the ghost heat. Simply buff it. Don't touch ghost heat. IS Gauss/PPC is bad enough it doesn't require the link to be balanced. It will be kept in check by subpar chassis and tech difference. There currently are zero high tier IS Gauss/PPC mechs.
  
• Gauss/PPC for Clans is the main issue people are offended by, mainly on the Night Gyr, but the Clan ER PPC needs much less buffing, because it is a much better weapon than the IS ER PPC. A 100 m/s buff on the Clan ER PPC would be enough to make it a better weapon, while still having enough desynch to the gauss.

So, if you still fail to understand what i said, i'll put it in one very very very clear sentence:


PPCs can be buffed without linking the ghost heat.

But like... why would you want Gauss cERPPC to stay a thing? It's the most unfun meta this game has seen, except maybe when LRMs were OP.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Koniving, on 15 July 2017 - 02:33 PM, said:

Never liked how MWO does Autocannons, so I'll be going quad RAC and then living out the fantasy of actual autocannons, and pretend they are AC/10s.

Have fun when the quad racs magically pour the white phosphorus into your cooling systems. #GhostHeat

If they dial back some of that heat scale with them, ill join you.

[NocturnalBeast]

Saber Avalon, on 15 July 2017 - 01:06 PM, said:

Also, why was Diamond Shark not included? It was the third clan to join the invasion, along with Nova Cats and Steel Vipers. The Mad Cat MKII even has shark livery!

Clan Diamond Shark was even in the BATTLETECH cartoon, they were fighting against Clan Wolf over the Star League outpost.

Edit: I don't remember which episode, I thought it was Ep 9, but that is Clan Wolf fighting Clan Jade Falcon.

Edited by Ed Steele, 15 July 2017 - 03:17 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

BMKA, on 15 July 2017 - 02:17 PM, said:

R.I.P poptarts

Except for the Summoner and HBK-IIC of course? And honestly, throw a few more DHS on the Night Gyr and it will probably be fine. The mechs that got wrecked are the ones that did single gauss and 2 PPCs.

[NocturnalBeast]

Gas Guzzler, on 15 July 2017 - 03:14 PM, said:

Except for the Summoner and HBK-IIC of course? And honestly, throw a few more DHS on the Night Gyr and it will probably be fine. The mechs that got wrecked are the ones that did single gauss and 2 PPCs.

People can still pop-tart, just not with the Gauss+PPC combo.

[Gas Guzzler]

Ed Steele, on 15 July 2017 - 03:17 PM, said:

People can still pop-tart, just not with the Gauss+PPC combo.

I think dual gauss, single ppc will be fine. Its cool enough to where the ghost heat won't kill it. Its the dual ppc, single gauss builds that you might find on a Timber, Victor, Highlander, Cataphract, that really get ruined.

[Pariah Devalis]

Gas Guzzler, on 15 July 2017 - 03:19 PM, said:

I think dual gauss, single ppc will be fine. Its cool enough to where the ghost heat won't kill it. Its the dual ppc, single gauss builds that you might find on a Timber, Victor, Highlander, Cataphract, that really get ruined.

Perhaps, unless it treats the gauss as PPC heat sources as soon as you cross that line.

[Gas Guzzler]

Pariah Devalis, on 15 July 2017 - 03:25 PM, said:

Perhaps, unless it treats the gauss as PPC heat sources as soon as you cross that line.

I think it just gets the penalty, so... whats the bonus heat on 3 ER PPCs? its like 18 right? So I would guess that alpha would cost 34.5 heat total. For the poptart phase that should be okay, I'm just gonna drop the ER MLs and TC1 on the NTG and add 3 more DHS.

Dragon Slayer gets the shaft though... so close to having a respectable loadout :/

[The Shazbot]

With the AMS nerf, I guess the 8 dedicated LRM Boats on my team every pug game will have even more fun....

[Pariah Devalis]

Gas Guzzler, on 15 July 2017 - 03:27 PM, said:

I think it just gets the penalty, so... whats the bonus heat on 3 ER PPCs? its like 18 right? So I would guess that alpha would cost 34.5 heat total. For the poptart phase that should be okay, I'm just gonna drop the ER MLs and TC1 on the NTG and add 3 more DHS.

Dragon Slayer gets the shaft though... so close to having a respectable loadout :/

2x UAC5 2x ERPPC will still work. And the PPC will be even faster than ever.


Because they are able to buff them.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 15 July 2017 - 03:46 PM.

[Wibbledtodeath]

All I read is Ghost heat this and ghost heat that. Obviously PGI want this ganme to die.

[Dee Eight]

AMS Overload
The benefit provided from AMS Overload Nodes has been decreased to 0.75 (from 1.25).

[color="#3073f3"]AMS Overload Design Notes:[/color] We're happy to see AMS effectively utilized, but feel that the previous 71% damage uptick provided a bit too much of a boost to the equipment, particularly in light of recent baseline changes to AMS. We have therefore chosen to reduce the value provided from the AMS Overload nodes to instead provide a total boost of 41% to AMS damage when both nodes are applied.


Here's a thought for the future...instead of buffing something to the point you immediately have to nerf it afterwards.... just don't buff it so much, or at all instead. If you'd left the optimal range alone at 120m, or only raised it slightly... there wouldn't be a need to nerf the overload damage now.

[Wintersdark]

Oblitum Infernos, on 15 July 2017 - 02:02 PM, said:

ATMs are now entirely worthless, thanks for that PGI Min range and 2 DMG per missile, you literally completely removed any reason to put them on anything. i hope to god they fire chris over how badly he's already fubar'd everything he's touched.

wat? Pay attention. ATM's are buffed from pts, still 3/2/1 damage but a fair bit faster velocity so they'll be more accurate and eat less AMS fire.

Gas Guzzler, on 15 July 2017 - 01:45 PM, said:

To build on that, mechs that bring dual gauss and 1 or 2 PPCs will still be pretty strong. Arguably an unnecessary nerf, but still, firing 2 PPC then 2 gauss is still pretty potent (and its what you do at long range anyway), and if you only have one PPC the ghost heat should be pretty manageable. The mechs that really get the shaft are the ones with 1 Gauss and 2 PPC (Timber, DS, HGN, some other heavies), as the damage is lower, and because there are 2 PPCs instead of 1 the ghost heat will be prohibitive.

Single PPC+Gauss=zero ghost heat.

Erppc+Gauss will be a very valid loadout for a sniper medium; with near hitscan speed on both weapons.

Edit: my bad, you said dual Gauss, single peep. I'm dumb.

Pariah Devalis, on 15 July 2017 - 03:45 PM, said:

2x UAC5 2x ERPPC will still work. And the PPC will be even faster than ever.


Because they are able to buff them.

I'm really interested in my old 3AC5+2erppc banshee

Dee Eight, on 15 July 2017 - 04:03 PM, said:

AMS Overload
The benefit provided from AMS Overload Nodes has been decreased to 0.75 (from 1.25).

[color="#3073f3"]AMS Overload Design Notes:[/color] We're happy to see AMS effectively utilized, but feel that the previous 71% damage uptick provided a bit too much of a boost to the equipment, particularly in light of recent baseline changes to AMS. We have therefore chosen to reduce the value provided from the AMS Overload nodes to instead provide a total boost of 41% to AMS damage when both nodes are applied.


Here's a thought for the future...instead of buffing something to the point you immediately have to nerf it afterwards.... just don't buff it so much, or at all instead. If you'd left the optimal range alone at 120m, or only raised it slightly... there wouldn't be a need to nerf the overload damage now.

I'd rather have more range as per the buff, and less damage. More range makes it more useful teamwide, so in this case I'm happy with the way it went.

Edited by Wintersdark, 15 July 2017 - 04:20 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Gas Guzzler, on 15 July 2017 - 03:19 PM, said:

I think dual gauss, single ppc will be fine. Its cool enough to where the ghost heat won't kill it. Its the dual ppc, single gauss builds that you might find on a Timber, Victor, Highlander, Cataphract, that really get ruined.

Elephant in the room being missed:

Twin HPPC.

30 PPFLD at 20 tons lets you run a 300 LFE or larger on a CTF-3D with 18 DHS, a TC1, and a full complement of jump jets. Combine with stupid levels of armor quirks and we have a potential monster on our hands. I only hope PGI nerfs the CTF-3D once this is realized, and not the HPPC.

[Gas Guzzler]

Pariah Devalis, on 15 July 2017 - 03:45 PM, said:

2x UAC5 2x ERPPC will still work. And the PPC will be even faster than ever.


Because they are able to buff them.

Wait on what, the Night Gyr? The dual gauss ER PPC will probably be fine for the Night Gyr as well.

DS can't do 2 UAC5s, so best is going to be 1 ac5 1 UAC5, and ER PPCs are too hot for that build so it would be regs PPCs so not faster than ever.

Wintersdark, on 15 July 2017 - 04:15 PM, said:

Single PPC+Gauss=zero ghost heat.

That's garbage for an IS heavy or assault though. I'm talking about single gauss and 2 ER PPCs is getting wrecked by this.

Yeonne Greene, on 15 July 2017 - 04:15 PM, said:

Elephant in the room being missed:

Twin HPPC.

30 PPFLD at 20 tons lets you run a 300 LFE or larger on a CTF-3D with 18 DHS, a TC1, and a full complement of jump jets. Combine with stupid levels of armor quirks and we have a potential monster on our hands. I only hope PGI nerfs the CTF-3D once this is realized, and not the HPPC.

Little underwhelming for a Victor/HGN.

[Wintersdark]

Yeonne Greene, on 15 July 2017 - 04:15 PM, said:

Elephant in the room being missed:

Twin HPPC.

30 PPFLD at 20 tons lets you run a 300 LFE or larger on a CTF-3D with 18 DHS, a TC1, and a full complement of jump jets. Combine with stupid levels of armor quirks and we have a potential monster on our hands. I only hope PGI nerfs the CTF-3D once this is realized, and not the HPPC.

Strong, but short ranged. Not nearly as potent as the synchronized 2xerppc+gauss before the velo nerf.

[Y E O N N E]

Gas Guzzler, on 15 July 2017 - 04:20 PM, said:

That's garbage for an IS heavy or assault though. I'm talking about single gauss and 2 ER PPCs is getting wrecked by this.

Little underwhelming for a Victor/HGN.

30 versus 35 damage is not a huge deal, especially not when you don't even have to manage a charge. The IS will be able to snap out the damage, which if I recall was enough of an equalizer for even the 20 PPFLD of the SMN to triumph over the 40 on the NTG.

And honestly, with the mounts where they are on the HGN and VTR, and the complete lack of competent jumping ability, you are really talking about a mid-range fight where you'd be better off stacking LPL with Gauss instead.

[Khalcruth]

BMKA, on 15 July 2017 - 02:17 PM, said:

R.I.P poptarts

Good freaking riddance, it's about time. I don't want them to rest in peace, I want them to rest in eternal fire and brimstone torture. Wouldn't bother me for a second if they completely removed jump jets just to get rid of poptarts. Since you can't Death From Above, I really don't see the point of having jump jets in the game anyway.

[Y E O N N E]

Wintersdark, on 15 July 2017 - 04:22 PM, said:

Strong, but short ranged. Not nearly as potent as the synchronized 2xerppc+gauss before the velo nerf.

You are dramatically underestimating it. Back then, we never had any light-weight options to get that much PPFLD with such mobility and durability. And in today's game, the NTG operated mostly around 600 meters. Wait and see.

[PraetorGix]

Ah, amazing... you hadn't enough with killing clan SPL, now you had to go for the SL as well... and great trolling with the extra bonus in the PPC department...
It's official, I now hate this Chris guy more than I hated Paul when he was the balance overlord.