675 replies to this topic

[Wintersdark]

Yeonne Greene, on 15 July 2017 - 04:28 PM, said:

You are dramatically underestimating it. Back then, we never had any light-weight options to get that much PPFLD with such mobility and durability. And in today's game, the NTG operated mostly around 600 meters. Wait and see.

Nah, not underestimating. It'll be good, but not problem good. 30 ppfld is strong, but that's at very short range and long cooldown. The Gauss ERPeeps could do 35ppfld at very long range and comparable cd; it was objectively stronger. The hpeeps will still suffer in brawls due to heat, but not have the range to trade at range.

Not saying it'll be bad at all, just that it's sufficiently limited to not be a problem build.

I DO think it'll provide a lot of lighter Mechs with a really solid loadout though, and being low tonnage for it's firepower it'll also allow large engines in mediums and heavies.

Not enough on its own for an assault though, imho.

The6thMessenger, on 15 July 2017 - 02:33 PM, said:

At least you got your wish.

RAC and ATMs still didn't got their deserved adjustment.

Wait, didn't RAC's get a DPS upgrade?

[TankBadger42]

The thing that bothers me most, from these notes, is the single projectile speed change to the machine guns, would love it they went for like 400, 300, 200 for light, normal and heavy respectively. would make them feel so much better.

I'm really happy with all the changes, just need to see how they work in a real fight.

[Gas Guzzler]

Wintersdark, on 15 July 2017 - 04:38 PM, said:

Not enough on its own for an assault though, imho.

Yeah... tbh on the Highlander you can probably add on a UAC10 with enough DHS. Or maybe 2 AC5s and 2 HPPCs....

[Y E O N N E]

Wintersdark, on 15 July 2017 - 04:36 PM, said:

Nah, not underestimating. It'll be good, but not problem good. 30 ppfld is strong, but that's at very short range and long cooldown. The Gauss ERPeeps could do 35ppfld at very long range and comparable cd; it was objectively stronger. The hpeeps will still suffer in brawls due to heat, but not have the range to trade at range.

Not saying it'll be bad at all, just that it's sufficiently limited to not be a problem build.

I DO think it'll provide a lot of lighter Mechs with a really solid loadout though, and being low tonnage for it's firepower it'll also allow large engines in mediums and heavies.

Not enough on its own for an assault though, imho.

I'm talking very specifically about the CTF-3D, here. The GHR can do the same thing and will be strong, but not problem strong. The CTF-3D has a high possibility of being problem strong, though, because it gets 110 CT armor, 75 ST armor, 75 leg armor, and we've got a Skill Tree to boost that even higher as well as increase the stats on the guns. So you are going to get blasted from 600 meters away for 30 damage every 4.5 seconds by a 'Mech that doesn't reveal much in the first place and just doesn't seem to take a hit when you do get a chance to shoot at it. It may not be too bad in an organized match where you know you can count on your friends to bull-rush it, but in solo queue I can already hear the screams of bloody murder.

For an assault, obviously 2x HPPC would be insufficient firepower. Combined with a pair of UAC/5, though, and it could be pretty good. Alternatively, 2x PPC and 2x UAC/10. An up-scaled Warhammer. Maybe 2x HPPC with a UAC/10, but if I'm willing to stagger my shots like that I could very likely remain effective with Gauss, or I could also get full PPFLD blasty with a standard AC/10 since I've already accepted truncated range to 450 meters.

[Wintersdark]

Gas Guzzler, on 15 July 2017 - 04:41 PM, said:

Yeah... tbh on the Highlander you can probably add on a UAC10 with enough DHS. Or maybe 2 AC5s and 2 HPPCs....

I'd consider a straight AC10+2xHPPC, to save a bit of tonnage over the AC5's and work better with the cooldowns, as you'd basically get 2:1 AC10 to HPPC, while the AC5's require more facetime with a 3:1 ratio. At HPPC ranges, the AC10 is accurate enough, and that gets you to a nice, juicy 40pts PPFLD that's able to fire out effectively at mid ranges as well. Also better ammo:ton.

Yeonne Greene, on 15 July 2017 - 04:46 PM, said:

I'm talking very specifically about the CTF-3D, here. The GHR can do the same thing and will be strong, but not problem strong. The CTF-3D has a high possibility of being problem strong, though, because it gets 110 CT armor, 75 ST armor, 75 leg armor, and we've got a Skill Tree to boost that even higher as well as increase the stats on the guns. So you are going to get blasted from 600 meters away for 30 damage every 4.5 seconds by a 'Mech that doesn't reveal much in the first place and just doesn't seem to take a hit when you do get a chance to shoot at it. It may not be too bad in an organized match where you know you can count on your friends to bull-rush it, but in solo queue I can already hear the screams of bloody murder.

For an assault, obviously 2x HPPC would be insufficient firepower. Combined with a pair of UAC/5, though, and it could be pretty good. Alternatively, 2x PPC and 2x UAC/10. An up-scaled Warhammer. Maybe 2x HPPC with a UAC/10, but if I'm willing to stagger my shots like that I could very likely remain effective with Gauss, or I could also get full PPFLD blasty with a standard AC/10 since I've already accepted truncated range to 450 meters.

We'll see, I suppose. I wouldn't be sad to see some Cataphracts get some time in the limelight (even if just the previous darling). It's been a long time for them.

[Commander A9]

"Five years have passed since the defeat of the Clans at the Battle of Tukayyid."

Looks at past three MWO Tukayyid tournaments and notes Clans won all three...can't stop laughing

"While the new Inner Sphere layout reflects the era according to established lore, Faction Play in MechWarrior Online is not attempting to recreate subsequent events exactly as they occurred."

...I guess that means we won't be seeing the FedCom Civil War or even the Refusal War...which occurred in 3057, huh?

And Ulric never "activated" Steel Viper or Nova Cat-they fought at Tukayyid before 3057. And what the hell benefit is there of being on Nova Cat or Steel Viper if you don't get seemingly anything for joining them?

Edited by Commander A9, 15 July 2017 - 05:20 PM.

[SPNKRGrenth]

TankBadger42, on 15 July 2017 - 04:41 PM, said:

The thing that bothers me most, from these notes, is the single projectile speed change to the machine guns, would love it they went for like 400, 300, 200 for light, normal and heavy respectively. would make them feel so much better.

I'm really happy with all the changes, just need to see how they work in a real fight.

Most people don't seem to know this, but machine guns are hitscan. Now, the TRACER graphic is quite slow, and I agree those should be faster. But the shot itself, that does the damage, is either instant, or near instant hit. Once I learned this, I was able to put machine guns to much better use, as I stopped trying to lead my target and end up missing a lot because of it. XD

[Kaptain]

Koniving, on 15 July 2017 - 02:14 PM, said:

You know why they did this, don't you?

There's a variant among the Annihilators are going to be able to pull off the Kodiak's quad UAC/10 build... but with front loaded damage. This is clearly an attempt to halt/punish the flagrant abuse before it begins after the lesson they learned with the Kodiak.

Sure I get the motivation but the comparison falls a little flat.

Annihilator 4x10 vs KDK-3 4xUltra10 build of old:

Clan:
11 Tons of ammo. 60KPH, clanXL370+, 14DHSs 4xUltra10s can run ES and FF no problem.
IS:
6 Tons of ammo. 48kph. IS LFE300(full stop) 10 DHS. with shaved arms AND legs. Can't run ES or FF.

But, the comparison that makes me say "interesting" is more the annihilator 4xac10/ultra10 vs 6xac5 or 5xultra5 builds. Those builds are going to have superior dps and be able to run light fusion engines.. 30 damage every 1.66 or 50 every 1.66 (double tapping)

Edited by Kaptain, 15 July 2017 - 08:51 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Kaptain, on 15 July 2017 - 05:33 PM, said:

But, the comparison that makes me say "interesting" is more the annihilator 4xac10/ultra10 vs 6xac5 or 5xultra5 builds. Those builds are going to have superior dps and be able to run light fusion engines.. 30 damage every 1.66 or 50 every 1.66 (double tapping)

Really, though, that doesn't get you anything over a Mauler. Yup, LFE...but stuck at 48.6 kph on a 300 max engine. Mauler? Goes the same speed with 6x AC/5 or it goes 52 kph with 2x UAC/5 + 3x AC/5 in much better mounts.

[Mcgral18]

Arkhangel, on 15 July 2017 - 01:49 AM, said:

because, you know, listening to a vocal minority (people like you) instead of the Majority (who were the ones who asked for this) helps so much.

...really?
Balancing by Potato, the worst possible outcome, is to be rejoiced?

#PGIplz

WayTooSexy, on 15 July 2017 - 07:48 AM, said:

I usually only use outreach hpg for reading, now I get why they call it brown sea and hate it, jeezz the things some people write on this thread are straight stupid, potatoes are amazing.

These threads tend to be the worst, Patch Notes
It drags up all sorts of Spud who would otherwise stay away.

Jman5, on 15 July 2017 - 12:42 PM, said:

You keep saying that the PPC/Gauss Combo are under performing, but PGI says the exact opposite:

Ah yes, from the same source who discovered the SadCat was overperforming!

I think we all know they have difficulty in interpreting data.

Pariah Devalis, on 15 July 2017 - 03:25 PM, said:

Perhaps, unless it treats the gauss as PPC heat sources as soon as you cross that line.

It would use the PPC's 7 "heatpenalty" value
Unless they give the Gauss Rifle one which is higher than 7, as it always takes the highest value. Gauss presently doesn't have one


So, according to the old GH thread
http://mwomercs.com/...cale-the-maths/

14.5 base heat
7 multiplier

Pre GH heat would be 14.5+1+1
16.5 heat

Post GH

(14.5*(0.18*7))=18.27

Total being 34.77 heat

Base heat cap being close to 60, so an easy 2 LOLphas

[Commander A9]

Hey...when the hell is Faction Warfare tonnage getting reset back to 250-250?

[Saber Avalon]

Commander A9, on 15 July 2017 - 05:19 PM, said:

"Five years have passed since the defeat of the Clans at the Battle of Tukayyid."

Looks at past three MWO Tukayyid tournaments and notes Clans won all three...can't stop laughing

"While the new Inner Sphere layout reflects the era according to established lore, Faction Play in MechWarrior Online is not attempting to recreate subsequent events exactly as they occurred."

...I guess that means we won't be seeing the FedCom Civil War or even the Refusal War...which occurred in 3057, huh?

And Ulric never "activated" Steel Viper or Nova Cat-they fought at Tukayyid before 3057. And what the hell benefit is there of being on Nova Cat or Steel Viper if you don't get seemingly anything for joining them?

Don't forgot PGI completely forgot Diamond Shark was one of the clans who fought at Tukayyid too, they won a trial of refusal, along with the Nova Cats, to be next in line to be involved in the invasion. BEFORE Steel Vipers. Yet there's no Diamond Sharks mentioned at all, no art work, nothing. Oh, but they teased with the Mad Cat MKII shark livery.

[Simulacrum]

So we dont get any real advancement in Faction Warfare? I hoped for some IS vs. IS and Clan vs. Clan options.
When will we be able to play as Clan Diamond Shark? Only two new Clans under the control of "parent Clans" (uhm .. what?) is a bit disappointing. :|

[Commander A9]

And, hey, news flash, PGI: Ulric Kerensky dies in 3057...during a Civil War fought between Clan Wolf and Clan Jade Falcon, hence the name of the new MWO version, right? RIGHT!?

That and...no Clan Wolf-in-Exile? Really? REALLY?

And oh yeah, on to those Tukayyid Participant Banners...Tukayyid was NOT in 3062, and they have yet to be fixed!

Edited by Commander A9, 15 July 2017 - 06:06 PM.

[Mcgral18]

As for the LFE...really, PGI?

REALLY?!


The same penalties as the Clam XL, despite being outright inferior?
Lack of ANY balance with the XLs?

You make me sad.

[Kaptain]

Mcgral18, on 15 July 2017 - 06:08 PM, said:

As for the LFE...really, PGI?

REALLY?!


The same penalties as the Clam XL, despite being outright inferior?
Lack of ANY balance with the XLs?

You make me sad.

I was wondering about this pree pts but couldn't find anyone who remembered the clan xl pen values

[Zergling]

Grus, on 15 July 2017 - 10:52 AM, said:

true but we are looking through the keyhole here. Things to note; ghost heat, are we able to fire all 4 before GH? And if so that's a spike of 32 heat. Odin's Beard that's a lot! Now because I'm on a cell I can't spreadsheet this,

Build; 4hmed 2uac10 2 atm12. Madcatmk2

So with the 4hmed fired and 32 heat produced one tap of the uac and that's close to shutdown threshold, replace that with the ATMs and same thing?

Shutdown threshold is considerably higher than 32 heat, here's the figures for heat capacity:

All mechs get a free 30 capacity
2.0 heat capacity per engine double heatsink (so a mech with 10 engine heatsinks gets 20)
1.5 heat capacity per non-engine double heatsink

Plus bonus for Heat Containment skill nodes; the maximum that bonus can reach is 15%, and I believe that is only applied to the base 30 heat capacity, for a maximum bonus of 4.5.

Eg, a mech with 10 engine double heatsinks and 10 non-engine double heatsinks (20 DHS in total), with maxed Heat Containment nodes would get 30 + 20 + 15 + 4.5 = 69.5 heat capacity.


As for Heavy Medium Laser ghost heat, if it is set to 4 then they still have an advantage over ER Mediums; that is 40 damage per shot for 4 tons of Heavy Medium Lasers, versus 42 damage per shot for 6 tons.
Heat is actually less for the Heavy Mediums too; 32 heat versus 37.8

Heavy Medium Lasers are more efficient in tonnage, hardpoints and heat than Clan ER Medium Lasers, but pay for that with range and beam duration.

Grus, on 15 July 2017 - 11:03 AM, said:

given the space Yes, but that's not likely considering the FF and endo we have to take on most of our mech's. Not disagreeing with you but 2hs in my opinion won't offset that heat spike enough to make we want to bring it. Add in the long duration meaning easier to spread damage and longer I have to stare at the target just adds to the list of downpours I don't like about the weapon.

A mech like the Night Gyr isn't likely to benefit from running Heavy Large Lasers, but the Shadow Cat, Adder, Mad Dog, Summoner, Orion IIC and Highlander IIC probably will, as those mechs all have a shortage of energy hardpoints and plenty of slots.

Edited by Zergling, 15 July 2017 - 06:34 PM.

[Koniving]

Mcgral18, on 15 July 2017 - 05:50 PM, said:

It would use the PPC's 7 "heatpenalty" value
Unless they give the Gauss Rifle one which is higher than 7, as it always takes the highest value. Gauss presently doesn't have one

Side note, I've been wondering if anyone noticed they were very specific about Gauss and ER PPC being combined, with no mention of Gauss and PPC, heavy PPC, Light PPC, Snub PPC, or Heavy/Light Gauss + other PPCs..

And then, since they linked it, they gave a big buff exclusively to the ER PPC...

....So when is PGI going to say we're over reacting and that only Gauss + ER PPC are linked?

Because I know it's coming.

[Kaptain]

Yeonne Greene, on 15 July 2017 - 05:49 PM, said:

Really, though, that doesn't get you anything over a Mauler. Yup, LFE...but stuck at 48.6 kph on a 300 max engine. Mauler? Goes the same speed with 6x AC/5 or it goes 52 kph with 2x UAC/5 + 3x AC/5 in much better mounts.

Pretty sure the mauler has less ammo, stripped arms and shaved legs. +ATM the annihilator gets strong armor quirks. So the annihilator should be more viable no?

I think you meant to say 2xultra+2xac5 ? You're talking about a mauler build ya?

Edit: The annihilator with 300lfe and ST moves at 52 where the mauler with 250std is 48 with st. So the Annihilator is faster also. 6ac5s is already strong on the mauler and it has drawbacks the Anni doesn't have

Edited by Kaptain, 15 July 2017 - 06:52 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Kaptain, on 15 July 2017 - 06:40 PM, said:

Pretty sure the mauler has less ammo, stripped arms and shaved legs. +ATM the annihilator gets strong armor quirks. So the annihilator should be more viable no?

I think you meant to say 2xultra+2xac5 ? You're talking about a mauler build ya?

Nope, I meant what I said. This is what I run and it wrecks. I did get the speed wrong, though, only 50 kph (but I gave mine half the speed tweak by skipping Operations entirely).

The Mauler has stripped arms because it doesn't need them. The Annihilator actually has to use its arms and that is bad because they are lower and wider than the torso guns. Torso guns on the Mauler are far more condensed and offer superior convergence. It's also pretty good at spreading damage and it can start firing sooner than the Annihilator as it crests the hill or rounds the corner.

Legs are barely touched at all.