176 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Gas Guzzler, on 15 July 2017 - 09:21 AM, said:

Jokes on you because you need 2 buttons to ER PPC-Gauss.

ggrekt

L2M (learn to macro) bro.

Oops. Rekt bak I guess?

[Gas Guzzler]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 July 2017 - 09:23 AM, said:

L2M (learn to macro) bro.

Oops. Rekt bak I guess?

I don't use macros, why would I want to use a macro to do what I can do with two mouse buttons? I don't know anyone who does either. I'm sure people do, but that's beside the point.

In the mean time you can continue to support nerfing loudouts that are already underperforming and pretending like you care about balance.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 15 July 2017 - 09:26 AM.

[4rcs1ne]

Are they linking ghost heat with Autocannons and PPCs as well?

If not, two PPC's two UAC5's could be a decent poptart build replacement.

Edited by Matt2496, 15 July 2017 - 09:35 AM.

[DiabetesOverlord Wilford Brimley]

Matt2496, on 15 July 2017 - 09:31 AM, said:

Are they linking ghost heat with Autocannons and PPCs as well?

If not, two PPC's two UAC5's could be a decent poptart build replacement.

Watching the balance changes over the few years is like watching a dog chase its tail.

[MischiefSC]

Because the push is to move away from PPFLD poke to DPS.

That's not new, what is new is taking real steps to move that way.

This isn't any different from the calls to increase PPC cooldown but increase velocity from months ago. That's exactly what this does - just the cooldown is by choice, not requirement because of heat.

This is a velocity boost for about 1 sec longer cooling need (that cooldown extension) on PPCs and only on mixed Gauss builds when you alpha.

Maybe it's moving GH to 3 too. Which would make sense. I'm not sure how the GH would calculate for Gauss + PPC vs 3x PPC but it looks like it's about a cerml worth.

What it really does is push out the viable range of poke sniping and keep ppc/Gauss brawling from being a thing.

[MustrumRidcully]

davoodoo, on 15 July 2017 - 08:42 AM, said:

and yet it worked in mw4 and it worked in mw3 without any limiters in either...

ppl should seriously stop thinking that tanks can actually tank damage...

Did it really? Or Is that just rose-colored glasses with the bonus of these being games made at a time where communication among the fanbase on the internet wasn't as common as today?

Quote

Me as well, this game is balanced around the potato population and not from the top like every other game.

Yeah, in no other game do people have justified grievances against balance decisions by the development team, and in no game is it relevant what the typical population of the game experiences in game play.

Quote

Or better the whining potato population is balancing this game, which uses twitter and tweets Russ all the time.

Whether anything players say have an effect or not on MW:O development is fairly random... If not, we would have probably had Repair & Rearm reintroduced and removed 3 times by now.

[Gentleman Reaper]

NlGHTBlRD, on 15 July 2017 - 08:43 AM, said:

Okay... get in a night gyr and show me how to pop tart with two weapon volleys...

It's simple, you don't, poptarting is a stupid tactic that goes against what JJs should be. Maybe with this change we can see JJs buffed on heavies and assaults so that they're actually used for mobility.

[davoodoo]

MustrumRidcully, on 15 July 2017 - 11:09 AM, said:

Did it really? Or Is that just rose-colored glasses with the bonus of these being games made at a time where communication among the fanbase on the internet wasn't as common as today?

I mean sure you can claim that, the fact is however that mw3 came out had no limiter, then mw3 expansion came out, had no limiter, mw4 came out had no limiter, mw4 expansion came out had no limiter, finally mektek got hands on it and put no limiter either.

I mean sure if you have some proof to your claims present it, but i cant imagine this going on without any notice for 5 iterations over 14 years and suddenly getting noticed within a year of open beta of mwo launching...

Edited by davoodoo, 15 July 2017 - 11:27 AM.

[Reno Blade]

I stand by my previous post.
The build is still valid, similar to 6LL or 4x PPC builds - you have to pace your shots.
It's good to have a choice if you want to eat the penalty or continue the more heat efficient fire discipline, but need to fire the second half of the volley half a second later.

All it will need is to fire the PPCs while charging and then let the Gauss go off, instead of charging and firing both together (and maybe convergence screwing you anyways).

I found it always too easy to use and was waiting for a "fix".
Anyone using a weapon with duration (beams, cUACs, LRMs, MRMs...) always had the downside of the stare-down vs the insta-gib of PPFLD.
Heck, even SRM boats could be argued to be too flexible with their shoot-n-twist alpha punsh... but GH limit was increased to 4x SRM6 even (at some point) to make brawling stronger.

Imho, we need few more nerfs for Lasers and SRMs (could be fixed by lower GH limit) and also ACs/LRM (could be nerfed by longer cooldown) to get boating efficiency a bit more down.

Reno Blade, on 15 July 2017 - 08:18 AM, said:

Everyone knows the deadlyness of Gauss+PPC.
PGI then looked at 2x HGauss + 2x HPPC for 80 PPFLD !!! ... and heard the cries of fear from PTS testers ... and at the same time the request for true 15/15 HPPCs.

It was totally clear that there would need to be "something" done to prevent that monster punsh going live. Even if that can only be boated by 1 or 2 mechs... similar to the 2x Gauss + 2x cERPPC Kodiak before.

I am happy that we don't see more nerfs for the Gauss or PPC, but only the GH combination.

You can use max of HGauss + HPPC for a total of 40 PPFLD if you like to invest that much and manage the short range, charge and long cooldowns.
Or you can take ERPPC + Gauss with a very nice velocity of 2000 (even more if quirked and skilled), vut the damage would only be 25 that way.

Risk and reward, build choices AND you can still decide to take the heat penalty and fire that 2+2 in a single volley if you like AND you can still use a 2+2 combo without any penalty.

[Jay Leon Hart]

davoodoo, on 15 July 2017 - 11:19 AM, said:

I mean sure you can claim that, the fact is however that mw3 came out had no limiter, then mw3 expansion came out, had no limiter, mw4 came out had no limiter, mw4 expansion came out had no limiter, finally mektek got hands on it and put no limiter either.

I mean sure if you have some proof to your claims present it, but i cant imagine this going on without any notice for 5 iterations over 14 years and suddenly getting noticed within a year of open beta of mwo launching...

MW3 also had custom maps so cold, weapons produced no heat, and mods that gave you infinite ammo. I'd hardly say it can be used as a comparison for balance in MWO.

I didn't play enough MP in MW4 to know if it had anything similar.

[MustrumRidcully]

davoodoo, on 15 July 2017 - 11:19 AM, said:

I mean sure you can claim that, the fact is however that mw3 came out had no limiter, then mw3 expansion came out, had no limiter, mw4 came out had no limiter, mw4 expansion came out had no limiter, finally mektek got hands on it and put no limiter either.

I mean sure if you have some proof to your claims present it, but i cant imagine this going on without any notice for 5 iterations over 14 years and suddenly getting noticed within a year of open beta of mwo launching...

I would say the concern of PvP balancing for all these titles was plainly minimal, because that wasn't the main feature of the game. Whether some subset of the owners of the game engaged in PvP and did encounter broken builds or not wasn't relevant to the developers.

Unlike MW:O, which is a pure PvP game and the only thing relevant is whether it works well for PvP.

[FireStoat]

You can blame the streamer Sean Lang for this. Any time he pilots a Night Gyr, Timber Wolf, or Scorch MAD IIC on his stream, it's always PPC / Gauss. Every time. People in the stream asked why he used PPC x2 Gauss x2 on a Scorch rather than SRM's / LBX 20's, and his response was "those guys are doing it wrong."

Okay, you could blame more than him. You could blame all of the higher tier companies that spam 3-4 man teams in group play using high tonnage and nothing but PPC / Gauss. Enjoy.

[davoodoo]

Jay Leon Hart, on 15 July 2017 - 11:30 AM, said:

MW3 also had custom maps so cold, weapons produced no heat, and mods that gave you infinite ammo. I'd hardly say it can be used as a comparison for balance in MWO.

I didn't play enough MP in MW4 to know if it had anything similar.

Yeah and skyrim horse schlongs mod, therefore it should be rated m.

This is what youre gonna use for that defense?? custom fanmade stuff...

MustrumRidcully, on 15 July 2017 - 11:34 AM, said:

I would say the concern of PvP balancing for all these titles was plainly minimal, because that wasn't the main feature of the game. Whether some subset of the owners of the game engaged in PvP and did encounter broken builds or not wasn't relevant to the developers.

Unlike MW:O, which is a pure PvP game and the only thing relevant is whether it works well for PvP.

Stop you right there, mektek was actually concerned with balancing online and they had been the last ones to work on it.

Also theres living legends which i havent played but neither i can find any complaints about alphas...i however found nerfs to jump jets to limit poptarting...

Edited by davoodoo, 15 July 2017 - 11:45 AM.

[Revis Volek]

Viktor Drake, on 15 July 2017 - 08:39 AM, said:

The only thing it changes is now you have to cycle between the two weapons rather than firing all of them at the same time.

Seriously you all need to stop with the Alpha Warrior Online stuff already. Being able to click one button over and over and over and have top performance is a broken game mechanic that needs to go away.

laser vomit is more of a one button win then gauss+ppc, you obviously have never used it.

Takes 3 buttons and one isnt on the mouse.

Gentleman Reaper, on 15 July 2017 - 11:17 AM, said:

It's simple, you don't, poptarting is a stupid tactic that goes against what JJs should be. Maybe with this change we can see JJs buffed on heavies and assaults so that they're actually used for mobility.

So less builds and variety is good for the game, good to know where you stand.

tell me more about this game you call vanilla warrior online.

Edited by Revis Volek, 15 July 2017 - 11:45 AM.

[Bud Crue]

Its bad for the same reasons that most PGI "balance adjustments" are bad: they aren't based on real or at least properly interpreted in-game data. Yes, we all have had games where the enemy team has a group of pokers keeping your heads down because a bunch are throwing out 45-60 point alphas from across the map. But so too have we had LRMs kill us on Polar and that doesn't mean LRMs need a nerf...but for PGI. This set of nerfs is just another in a long line of misguided nerfs. This is the new norm. Constant and random nerfs to make us reconfigure our skills tree and hopefully (from PGI's perspective) buy a diverse stable of mechs to hedge against the next random hit.

For my 2 cbills I am way more concerned over the changes to clan ermls as I see those used WAY more than gauss/ppc. Next month (or perhaps the month after) the hit to what I suspect will be predominantly IS weapons is going to be epic (I see the gauss/ppc being a clan tech nerf since most IS mech run gauss/ppc pretty halfassed).

Edited by Bud Crue, 15 July 2017 - 11:52 AM.

[Revis Volek]

Gas Guzzler, on 15 July 2017 - 09:21 AM, said:

Jokes on you because you need 2 buttons to ER PPC-Gauss.

ggrekt

3 if you include space bar

Bishop Steiner, on 15 July 2017 - 09:23 AM, said:

L2M (learn to macro) bro.

Oops. Rekt bak I guess?

Macros takes ability away from gauss, as it always fire it and if you macro ppc well thats just silly.

Learn to use your hands? l2uyh? lol

[Jay Leon Hart]

davoodoo, on 15 July 2017 - 11:40 AM, said:

This is what youre gonna use for that defense?? custom fanmade stuff...

More the absolute lack of any PVP balance.

[Moadebe]

I knew as soon as i saw that change the salt would flow like normal....thanks...needed it for my popcorn.

It is a change we will all get over it and find something else to run.

[Chados]

I haven't been seeing a whole lot of "variety" these days. I see Frozen City and Grim Plexus map after map, where you step between buildings for a tenth of a second and immediately get hit with twelve Clan gauss slugs, 24 Clan PPCs, and fourteen air strikes, all launched from 2,000 meters away.

Yah, that's real exciting gameplay right there. Not.

I'm not sorry to see this change. Not at all.

[Fleeb the Mad]

Gonna be honest, shedding no tears.

Long range poking has been well entrenched and has made gameplay much more dull and repetitive than it should be. This might also mean they can undo some of the velocity nerfs to PPCs since they failed to break the potency of the combination.