201 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

Just 1 damage inside 120m, 2.8 at 120-270, etc. That would be fine and keeps them a mid range weapon. They just need something useful inside 120m or they're not really useful.

[Mighty Wings]

I'm finding them very effective boating them on an assault mech. Just play like you would mid range trader, or find a spot and wait for someone to peek and bring double UAVs. What you won't win against tradewise is PPFLD like PPCs, light mechs popping in and out of cover quickly, and anything with double/triple ams . Or just find a good position and pop out of cover when they're not looking at you. ATMS are like actual good LRMS, they can't be dodged and do a shitload of damage.

[ocular tb]

Been having some good games with 2 ATM6s and 3MPL on an Adder. Haven't tried any other ATM's yet or on any other mechs but with my limited testing so far I think I like them.

[Gaius Mattlov]

I've been pleasantly surprised. Once I got the hang of them and understood their role, they've been fantastic. Obviously, AMS is a strong counter, but that's fine (PGI, now give reflective armor to counter laser vomit pls). I can see them not handling well if you just try to treat them like fancy LRMs and timidly shoot from the back line; that's not what they're for. But if you're an aggressive player who's good at managing your range, then I've found them to be surprisingly excellent.

It can be harder to get good bang for your buck out of them in terms of their demanding tonnage and ammo compared to S/SRMs and LRMs, but if you've got the proper playstyle they may very well be the best missile option in the game now. The minimum range is frustrating (I wouldn't mind it getting dropped to 90m) but manageable. In a sense, they're kind of a niche weapon despite supposedly being flexible, multi-purpose weapons -- their niche is flexible but aggressive pilots. If you have a rigid or timid playstyle, they probably won't work well for you.

[Acehilator]

Khobai, on 19 July 2017 - 01:05 PM, said:

Its not so much that 4x ATM12s are too hot.

Its more the fact you cant take 4 medium pulse lasers as backup weapons

x4 ATM9s and x4 MPL on the supernova has been working well for me

But ATM min range still needs to be removed, they need their damage profile changed to 2.4/2/1.6, and they need more missile health to survive AMS.

Yeah, running 4x ATM9s, 3x LPL, LTAG on the MKII-4. Very nice.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

I still really prefer actually having the ability to have a respectably high alpha at close range of 36 for the ATM12. Do remember that it is a 7 ton weapon and spread out, I don't think it really needs any nerfs to the damage in that respect. I'm honestly pretty fine with what we have now, it doesn't encroach on SRM territory yet its still great at short and mid range, just not face hugging range.

Why exactly do they need to deal damage point blank anyway? What are you even coming across at point blank range that you didn't get a fair shot at shooting up before it go there? Why do you not have 20-40 damage worth of laser alpha with the new laser options available to back you up?


Honestly though I'm just trying best I can to persuade people that they shouldn't just throw away 3 damage per rocket at the 120-270 range bracket for much of anything, and that they should instead play around that and get better when it comes to positioning so that you won't have an issue with a 120m min range.

Its like you guys never used LRMs before.

[SeventhSL]

I think they suffer from public perception more than anything.

1. They are not noob friendly like LRM and SSRM are. You really have to position well and watch for range and trajection.

2. Hitting something with only 6 missiles at 250 meters looks and feels meh... dispite doing 18 damage. Hitting that same target with an LRM15 looks and feels way better because of all the missiles despite the fact it is doning 3 less damage than the ATM6.

3. They aren't a stand alone weapon system that you can just spam and click one mouse button. Due to the minimum range, the desire to be close, and the fact that locks are hard to keep in mid range poke fights, you need supporting weapon systems and more hybrid type builds.

Edited by SeventhSL, 19 July 2017 - 07:11 PM.

[Hell in a Helmet]

Liking the mixed streakcrow. Mix of ATM6's and SSRM6's only and an active probe and tc. Mid to short range, support the assaults and stay in the sweet spot and you are golden.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Vellron2005, on 18 July 2017 - 11:00 PM, said:

So guys.. what do you think of the ATMs?

Personally, I'm kinda disappointed.. I thought they would kinda replace LRMs as the go-to long range missile.. but as they are now.. they are basically MRMs with lock-on.. but less damage than the big MRM launchers..

You can't bend them, they are not indirect fire, they have absurd range but also damage dropoff.. I only find them useful in the direct LOS mid-range brawls..

You can't really use them at their max range at all.. since no map in the game allows you to shoot a mech that far out and hit it with spread, to any favorable effect.. And only few maps (Alpine, Polar) ever allow you to shoot something that far out with LOS..

I mean ok.. I've been missing a medium-range missile,since I hate SRMs cose' their range is too short for me.. but if I'm gonna use a missile boat, I might as well use LRMs in medium range?

They also do good damage, but have alot more missiles per ton?

So to all the LRM users out there... are you gonna switch to ATMs?

(LRM haters please don't spew your bile, this is meant for people who actually like and use LRMs)

Your missing the point.

What you describe is kind of what they are supposed to be. A mid-range, direct line of sight missile system. The high maximum range of the weapon just means you have options that someone using SRMs doesn't have.

Basically you can chose to fire at whatever range you have line of sight to up to 1100-1200m depending on your skills but you get rather weak damage. However it is still damage and that damage will track that light mech running away from you at 400-500-600 meter or however far away you can see him. At the same time at closer ranges, say 300-400 meters you can roughly compete with a LRM as long as you have direct line of sight. Then at close range, 120m-300m, your deadly as long as their isn't AMS around. I mean you can lay down some serious hurt when your missiles are doing 3 damage per missile.

They are basically a combination of traits from all missile classes in the game but also at a pretty strong disadvantage compared to any of the specialized missiles. If you are looking for long range, then LRMs are the only way to go especially due to the fact you can fire them indirectly but at short ranges when you have line of Sight, ATMs will totally outperform LRMs. On the other end while you can do much, much more damage with them than you can SRMs and you also have tracking, you have less concentration of damage than with SRMs and a much slower missile that is rather easily countered by AMS. Also your hampered by a minimum range. On the other hand, unlike with SRMs, you don't have to worry about hitting a hard maximum range because if you can see the enemy, you can usually engage the enemy with ATMs.

So it is a trade off. With ATMs you get versatility, flexibility and potentially much greater performance than LRMs or SRMs given the right circumstance but they can't really compete against LRMs or SRMs within their respective specializations.

[Lux Monolithic]

Having LRMS with ATMs is dumb. Why would anyone do that. Screw everybody that doesn't like ATM's. Learn how to use missiles, jackrabbits. Love you all.

[Brain Cancer]

Illuminous Owl, on 19 July 2017 - 08:14 PM, said:

Having LRMS with ATMs is dumb. Why would anyone do that. Screw everybody that doesn't like ATM's. Learn how to use missiles, jackrabbits. Love you all.

LRMs work wonderfully with ATMs, including giving AMS something much more numerous to chew on at range.

And the mixed velocity confuse the heck out of people who think they're poking safely only to find they got a dozen ATMs to the torso because of the fast, flat shot or duck the ATMs only to find out the LRMs hit them anyway, all to a constant "INCOMING MISSILES".

That it's fooled more than one guy to come out and trade with the lurmboat only to eat 45 damage to the chest at short range has killed more than one opponent who'd have gutted me without them.

[Gas Guzzler]

Everyone's complaining about ATMs being disappointing but their legit my favorite missile system in the game right now.

[Khobai]

Quote

Everyone's complaining about ATMs being disappointing but their legit my favorite missile system in the game right now.

I think theyre complaining more about ATMs having a min range, being super lopsided if not down right broken in how much damage they do at 120m-270m, and being generally worse than LRMs at medium range.

ATMs are supposed to be a tactically flexible and versatile weapon system. They should be useful at every range band. They should not only be useful at one specific range band where theyre arguably broken. What PGI has given us is not really in the spirit of the weapon.

Edited by Khobai, 19 July 2017 - 09:25 PM.

[Leone]

Vellron2005, on 18 July 2017 - 11:00 PM, said:

So to all the LRM users out there... are you gonna switch to ATMs?

ATMs are not LRM replacements. They are Srm replacements, an actually pair up well with srms. Ever thought your srm tube count was too low? Now with double the tube count and extra damage! My SRM/ATM Vulture is a beast. But no, the only reason to fire 'em at long range is to tap a target for that kill assist afore you go maul some poor sod inna brawl.

As for ams, the trick is, launch the srms right before the atms. They should also pair well with streaks for light hunting.

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 19 July 2017 - 09:54 PM.

[sceii]

Cannot say atms spread worse then arms, they have a small arc, enough to damage enemy from above, so most of your damage goes for upper part of enemy mech he is facing to you. if you see enemy ST he will prob lose ST or hand after one salvo of 2atm12. cMPL combines great with atm.
I run whk with tag, 5mpl, 2atm12. played 5 games and in every game i had at least 3 kills, not so bad.

[Vellron2005]

Ok, so.. yesterday, I tried a Supernova build with ATM's.. I put on 2 x LRM20A and 2 ATM12, and some small lasers..

So I'm in match, and I notice that when I fire both ATM12s, they ALL get knocked down by a single AMS?!

Seriously!?

I removed them the second I got back to the mechbay.. there's 1.400.000 Cbills I'll never get back..

Also tried the smaller launchers on the Cheetah.. thought of doing a nice ATM3+HSL combo.. yeah.. that min range kills the concept of using ATM's for brawling.. so again..

All in all, I don't think I'll be using ATMs.. LRMs are better at ALL ranges, even at point blank.. And their indirect nature makes them a whole lot more useful than ATMs will ever be in their current state..

But then again, people that use SRMs will love them..

Edited by Vellron2005, 19 July 2017 - 11:00 PM.

[Vesper11]

Khobai, on 19 July 2017 - 09:21 PM, said:

ATMs are supposed to be a tactically flexible and versatile weapon system.

And it's the opposite with ATMs in MWO.
You're stuck between 120-270m range, below that they don't do anything, above they are inferior to LRMs and way above they are simply useless. Now great, you got into that 150m wide sweet zone where ATMs can stop sucking (oh, you wanted some cover outside that zone? Nope, ATMs is all "Tactical" you need, suck it and shoot), now you have to deal with AMS - either look for mech not near any AMS mech and enjoy the gimmick weapon or stack more ATMs to punch through AMS to do any damage but then to get more ATMs you'll need heavier mech but that means lower speed and mobility that you need to get into that sweet zone... And don't forget that you need someone spotting or will have to spend a second of getting shot at just so that you can use the weapon.
Gimmick, gimmick, gimmick, GIMMICK, the weapon.

[sceii]

Vesper11, on 19 July 2017 - 11:44 PM, said:

And it's the opposite with ATMs in MWO.
You're stuck between 120-270m range, below that they don't do anything, above they are inferior to LRMs and way above they are simply useless. Now great, you got into that 150m wide sweet zone where ATMs can stop sucking (oh, you wanted some cover outside that zone? Nope, ATMs is all "Tactical" you need, suck it and shoot), now you have to deal with AMS - either look for mech not near any AMS mech and enjoy the gimmick weapon or stack more ATMs to punch through AMS to do any damage but then to get more ATMs you'll need heavier mech but that means lower speed and mobility that you need to get into that sweet zone... And don't forget that you need someone spotting or will have to spend a second of getting shot at just so that you can use the weapon.
Gimmick, gimmick, gimmick, GIMMICK, the weapon.

In mid range they still do more damage then lrm or srm(srm does none)
Long range you can do SOME damage, still better then none.

[Vesper11]

sceii, on 20 July 2017 - 12:55 AM, said:

In mid range they still do more damage then lrm

To buildings, ground, rocks and other elements of topography as well as laser beams and AMS bullets, yes. Good only on paper (also heavier and hotter).

p.s. I also don't understand the minimal range lore **** as the weapon isn't even good for brawling with its wider spread, lower travel speed and lower DPS per ton than SRM. Maybe because of SSRM, but then SSRM... really...

Edited by Vesper11, 20 July 2017 - 02:25 AM.

[sceii]

Vesper11, on 20 July 2017 - 02:10 AM, said:

To buildings, ground, rocks and other elements of topography as well as laser beams and AMS bullets, yes. Good only on paper (also heavier and hotter).

p.s. I also don't understand the minimal range lore **** as the weapon isn't even good for brawling with its wider spread, lower travel speed and lower DPS per ton than SRM. Maybe because of SSRM, but then SSRM... really...

Having LOS can help you deliver damage.
Never brawl many enemies at once can help you deal with ams.
At 200+ meters spread is better then non A csrm.
At any range spread is better then SSRM, ssrm will have more damage to legs, while atm have a small arc, enough to not deal damage to legs.
At sub 450 range spread and damage are superior to regular lrm.
SRM does 48 maximum damge per alpha. (srm have 3 to 1 heat efficiency)
ATM does 72 maximum damage per alpha. (atm have up to 4 to 1 heat efficiency)
LRM does 40 maximum damage per alpha. (lrm have up to 3.3 heat efficiency)
My point is simple, ATM have their best in slot niche and are okay at many other niches.