138 replies to this topic

[MahKraah]

what ever balance the data suggest, if a adjustment is needed do a tonnage DROP .
we have way to much tonnage available as it is, on BOTH sides.

[DANKnuggz]

Ductus Hase, on 25 July 2017 - 09:12 AM, said:

A statement is complete BS because Russ HIMSELF said something different... plz use arguments which can be taken serious.

Some crucial tech isn´t balanced at all.
I suppose we can agree on speed being a factor.

A LFE saves you 25% weight on the engine, while a CXL saves you 50%.
This allows clans to get a considerable advantage on tonnage:

Engine 255 - 3,5t difference
CXL 280 costs 12,5t.
LFE 280 costs 16t.

Engine 280 - 4t difference
CXL 280 costs 14t.
LFE 280 costs 18t.

Engine 300 - 5t difference
CXL 300 costs 15.5t.
LFE 300 costs 20.5t.

Engine 325 - 6t difference
CXL 325 costs 19t.
LFE 325 costs 25t.

Engine 350 - 7,5t difference
CXL 350 costs 22t.
LFE 350 costs 29,5t.

Most of those 25t difference between IS and Clan goes into engines in order to keep up.
Furthermore there are differences in weight and slots on weaponry, equipment and customization.

While the differences on weaponry MIGHT be balanced by stats this is not the case for everything else.

yea except for all the locked equipment most clan mechs have using up a lot of the "extra" tonnage from that xl....

[Tarl Cabot]

DANKnuggz, on 26 July 2017 - 02:26 PM, said:

yea except for all the locked equipment most clan mechs have using up a lot of the "extra" tonnage from that xl....

You did actually mean locked equipment on Clan OMNIS, whereas Clan Battlemechs have no such restrictions. Stop trying to airbrush it away...

[Ductus Hase]

The equipment locked away in Omnimechs still has a function... may it JJs, BAPs or DHS - those tons are put to use, just can´t be reassigned.

Those additional tons in IS-mechs might justify "overquirkening" as we can find in the CTF-0XP.
Most quirks aren´t as good though...

[DANKnuggz]

Tarl Cabot, on 26 July 2017 - 02:43 PM, said:

You did actually mean locked equipment on Clan OMNIS, whereas Clan Battlemechs have no such restrictions. Stop trying to airbrush it away...

with a few exceptions clan OMNI are the best clan mechs there are... the IICs are a mixed bag and most aren't what you call top performers unless we're talking about the MAD-IIC....

And while a lot of the equipment is "functional" it isn't always useful... JJ's on a mech you'd rather have more tonnage or space for weapons isn't that great... BAPs on mechs you're not really concerned about extra targeting range isn't that useful... DHS filling entire sections eating up all the space in a section and no hardpoints in that section for ANY of its omnipods...

Point is locked equipment forces clanners to use those pieces even if what they're building doesn't need it at all while IS has heavier equipment they get the benefit of firing more weapons w/o Ghost heat... My clan and IS laser boats have almost the same number of lasers and similar heat dissipation but my IS laser boats being slower has not stopped me from putting up the same kind of kill/dmg numbers I was putting up on the clan side.

I've run for both sides and don't really have a problem killing clan mechs with my IS mechs. Honestly between the 25 tons outright and the ghost tonnage via armor/structure quirks I'm noticing the balance pendulum has swung pretty far into the IS' favor. Speed is a factor but not nearly as important as teamwork, focused fire, and STOP with the LURM boats...

[Mechi Messer]

What did techupdate actually do to IS?
It added a lot of weaponry that is not very usefull in FW. Some are usefull.

-Racs: Too much facetime, too little damage. Not really boatable.
-Misslestuff: Streaks were and still are inferior to SRMs. SRMs were and are only useble on very few maps. LRMs were and are ****. MRMs or whatever they are called: Too much damagespread compared to direct fire stuff.
-UACs: 10s and 20s usable on a few maps. I still think that laservomit is better. At least I do better with laservomit.
-Light gauss: Either too much facetime or too little damage.
-Heavy Gauss: Dunno. Didn't do it for me.
-Heavy PPC: Can't really say. I did better with laservomit.
-Light PPC: Seem a bit ******. I rather put Lpls on light or mediums.
-Snub: Lpl seems superior
-LMG: fun on light mechs or BJ-A. Viable? Dunno.
-HMG: No range, too much facetime.
-Ermeds: Good on battlemasters. Allows usage of LFE. Nice range.

LFE: Usable on some mechs. Makes them slower and somewhat hotter. Sometimes less Firepower. Makes you last a bit longer against good players. Almost no effect against potatoes. I expected more of them.

Nevertheless, I don't really care about tonnagereduction. It's not a big deal to switch one medium with a light I think.

Edited by Mechi Messer, 29 July 2017 - 01:46 AM.

[Bahktosh]

Hmmm...didn't do it for me is your reason heavy guas really....that does not say anything about the weapons performance...it's literally the single most heavy hitting weapon in the game...furthermore reading through the 3 pages of post here...I see a lot of people saying that the planners save weight...and listing that as a clan advantage...but let's not forget....IS mechs have been given more health to offset the weight difference already.....so if damage for IS is the same as clan...there is a problem....furthermore there were a few comments on locked equipment but as was referenced earlier some clan mechs don't even have a choice whether to get Ferro or endo. Additionally...looking at the faction warfare map it should be very apparent that we aren't 50/50 in wins losses...if we were we would have more planets...currently we are being crushed by IS....that's a fact.

[Hanky Spam]

DANKnuggz, on 28 July 2017 - 03:11 PM, said:

with a few exceptions clan OMNI are the best clan mechs there are... the IICs are a mixed bag and most aren't what you call top performers unless we're talking about the MAD-IIC....

All IIC will always be far superior over Clan-Omnis when:

- they have the right hardpoint layout
- have quirks

The situation would be else if Clans could modify engines, armor type and such on Omnis, but Omnis in general are not the best mechs...

However, they may have a few good Omni-Mechs like EBJ, ACH and LBK because they have already the optimal hardpoint, armor and engine layout, that might be true as well...

Edited by Hanky Spam, 31 July 2017 - 11:00 PM.

[Mechi Messer]

Bahktosh, on 31 July 2017 - 09:31 AM, said:

Hmmm...didn't do it for me is your reason heavy guas really....that does not say anything about the weapons performance...it's literally the single most heavy hitting weapon in the game...

Yep, Heavy gauss looks pretty scary on paper and it might even be on brawl-friendly maps but how many of those maps are there in FW and what's the tradeoff? I can only speak for myself but a big chunk of the damage I do I do at 400m+. There is only one map where this is different: Emerald on defense. I have to add that I pug 90% of my matches. 12man-drops use different setups sometimes (brawlerpushes, etc). I have to put two HG on a mech to reach 50 damage alpha. This works on a mauler and a Cyclops. I can cram some lasers or a snub-ppc in and have a pretty high alpha at 200m range. I rather use laservomit battlemasters and have less alpha but way more effective range. Fielding a big assault with brawlersetup is too much a gamble for me. Decent clan-pilots won't let me get to 200m in one piece and since they usually won't die with one shot have enough time to finish me thus removing 95 tons of my dropdeck.

[Ade the Rare]

Things are good right now; certainly way better balanced than they've been since I started playing.

Tonnage is fine. What needs looking at in FW is the whole merc/loyalist thing. That's in dire need of a rework.

[Xaat Xuun]

what about having a tonnage week, were each week the total tonnage is changing.
would be interesting

[Sarsaparilla Kid]

https://twitter.com/...598235122814977

Hasn't happened yet...maybe next week?

[MNML86]

Sarsaparilla Kid, on 04 August 2017 - 05:48 PM, said:

https://twitter.com/...598235122814977

Hasn't happened yet...maybe next week?

If this causes the balance to be clan stomping IS again. As I have stated in another thread prepare for angry IS loyalist, more people leaving the game as well as increased ghost drops.

No one can take being a punching bag for so long.

[BTGbullseye]

MNML86, on 05 August 2017 - 03:51 AM, said:

No one can take being a punching bag for so long.

IS has been the average winner since the Tukayyid event... That's why they're doing the tonnage drop to begin with.

Just look at the FP map to see how far the Clans are losing territory to IS. (IS is attacking the Pentagon worlds already)

[Tarl Cabot]

BTGbullseye, on 05 August 2017 - 06:12 AM, said:

IS has been the average winner since the Tukayyid event... That's why they're doing the tonnage drop to begin with.

Just look at the FP map to see how far the Clans are losing territory to IS. (IS is attacking the Pentagon worlds already)

What have you been smoking? Rasalhague has been overrun every reset. After the last reset with the Civil War with the new tech, the real reason IS is gaining ground is those merc units who had resided primarily with w/Clans, occasionally taking IS contracts have gone IS longer than usual, plus the event on top of that increased the general FP population.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 05 August 2017 - 11:56 AM.

[BTGbullseye]

You seem to think that one small area being overrun means that the entire IS is collapsing... Here's a hint, it isn't.

The Clans have been non-stop losing territory since this most recent map reset. (or trading planets in even numbers, like happened to the Jag/Cat lane)

Until PGI releases official numbers that support your position, I don't trust your assumption that IS winning is only happening because of Mercs switching from Clan.

[Stitchedup]

Don't worry PGI will do what ever is worse for FP in their option

[MNML86]

BTGbullseye, on 05 August 2017 - 12:50 PM, said:

You seem to think that one small area being overrun means that the entire IS is collapsing... Here's a hint, it isn't.

The Clans have been non-stop losing territory since this most recent map reset. (or trading planets in even numbers, like happened to the Jag/Cat lane)

Until PGI releases official numbers that support your position, I don't trust your assumption that IS winning is only happening because of Mercs switching from Clan.

You know that your statement is hard to swallow when the Combine lost its capital and was almost completely conquered. The Steiner capital was under siege. They didn't lose a "small" part of their territory.

IS has been losing planets ever since the clans were introduced.

There is data that the Clans have been stomping IS, nothing was done for a long time. Isn't it nice to get an immediate answer to your complaints and not years after.

Personally, the matches I have experienced recently have been close calls compared to the one sided stomps of the past. Much more exciting. When I log on the bar is sometimes more blue sometimes it is more orange. The history log shows a mixed of IS and Clan wins. No longer just blue.

It could be the big name units currently in IS making the bar orange. I have no idea. All I want are close and exciting matches. Its boring if it is so one sided.

Edited by MNML86, 05 August 2017 - 06:17 PM.

[Tarl Cabot]

BTGbullseye, on 05 August 2017 - 06:12 AM, said:

IS has been the average winner since the Tukayyid event... That's why they're doing the tonnage drop to begin with.

Which is just into the 3rd week since the reset and new tech and mercs switching sides.

Quote

Just look at the FP map to see how far the Clans are losing territory to IS. (IS is attacking the Pentagon worlds already)

Not refuting the part that territory is changing hands but most of that is due to Clan mercs who currently have gone IS (noted below)

BTGbullseye, on 05 August 2017 - 12:50 PM, said:

You seem to think that one small area being overrun means that the entire IS is collapsing... Here's a hint, it isn't.

I have not claimed that IS is currently being overran by Clans SINCE the reset in July but prior to that.. yeapers, the numbers are below, unless you think the Clans have hundreds of worlds to lose, win and lose again?

Quote

The Clans have been non-stop losing territory since this most recent map reset. (or trading planets in even numbers, like happened to the Jag/Cat lane)

Until PGI releases official numbers that support your position, I don't trust your assumption that IS winning is only happening because of Mercs switching from Clan.

You really need to stop eating the shrooms. The last Tukayyid event started on May 5th, 2017 while the recent map reset just happened last month on July 18th, 2017 with the tech update.

Many of those Clan mercs did go IS for both the new tech, and the likelihood of seeing how far they can push into the "Pentagon Worlds", which meant the Clans had a large movement of population at one time, whereas Clan mercs were not likley to go IS all at one time for a week and a change in pace. At the moment we are currently into WEEK 3 since the reset, and IS has fewer worlds to go through than the Clans had to.. Prior to that Clans were claiming worlds.

As to whether PGI should drastically play with the tonnage, the FP is over with and the current event does not have FP as one of the modes to be utilized.

Leadership Boards

• Clan Loyalists - Currently only one planet is tagged. Overall though top 20 loyalist has had planetary wins, which has amounted to approx 235 planets taken and retaken (do not recall when the last reset of the Leadership boards happened).
  
• IS Loyalists - Currently have 11 planets tagged, while over time only having overall a total of 55 planetary wins.
  
• Mercs - Currently have 16 planets tagged, majority as IS mercs since the July reset. Overall 495 planetary wins for both factions over time.

So for the most part, where two IS Capitols have been overrun more than once and another almost surrounded, mercs have been instrumental. Even if they do not run full 12-man drops, breaking up into smaller units to re-enforce the general Clan population had done wonders, as it guarantees the Clan side will not be a passive bunch.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 05 August 2017 - 08:22 PM.

[MNML86]

The clans have started to reverse things. The pentagon worlds are safe and worlds have started to fall to the clans again. Shall IS loyalists now complain about the tonnage?

Or are you going to say gid gud?

Edited by MNML86, 05 August 2017 - 10:27 PM.