81 replies to this topic

[BrunoSSace]

So new techs dropped and the tech gap has closed so close together now that there seems to be no gap. The IS are now competitive with Clan counter parts. All I'm seeing is Claners unhappy because they don't have the massive advantage like they use to.
For example in FP, an Ebon Jaguar was shooting me at 600 range for around 40 alpha. I fired back using er mediums and er larges and did like 35 back to him. He was like? Back in the day, it use be a free trade for him. Now my little Grasshopper can trade back. I'm calling it now, some IS mechs might lose some of their quirks and FP tonage might become even. State of the game for an IS pilot seems very good atm.
Bruno

[Khobai]

Quote

All I'm seeing is Claners unhappy because they don't have the massive advantage like they use to.

of course theyre unhappy their stuff keeps getting nerfed. nobody likes their stuff getting nerfed.

it wouldve been much more of a feel good change for everyone if PGI just buffed ISXL to survive side torso destruction.

instead of nerfing clan agility across the board.

[Mcgral18]

Well, I'd say Clams still have the superiority


But with FutureTech™ and Quirks combined, there are a handful more competitive Spheroid robots, at least.
It's something

[Revis Volek]

i gained a handful of decent IS chassis already, its actually quite nice.


But i would not say we are at 1:1 yet across the board.

[Wintersdark]

Revis Volek, on 22 July 2017 - 06:21 PM, said:

i gained a handful of decent IS chassis already, its actually quite nice.


But i would not say we are at 1:1 yet across the board.

never going to be across the board. Bad chassis are bad chassis, on both sides. Until we get the gap between various mechs tightened, once you get out of T1 & 2 mechs it's basically random.

It's a lot closer now, though, and I'm interested to see how CW goes - some public event stats would be cool to compare with previous runs that have all been Clan wins. I know I'm having a much better time in my "rank and file" IS mechs, whereas before the tech jump if I wasn't in a top IS mech I felt severely disadvantaged

Between light FF and the LFE, coupled with the existing quirks, IS mechs have gained the ability to have both toughness AND firepower, instead of one or the other. While clan ES, FF, and XL are objectively better, the armor/structure/weapon quirks, amplified by the skill tree, are definitely picking up the slack.

[Mystere]

BrunoSSace, on 22 July 2017 - 05:12 PM, said:

So new techs dropped and the tech gap has closed so close together now that there seems to be no gap. The IS are now competitive with Clan counter parts. All I'm seeing is Claners unhappy because they don't have the massive advantage like they use to.

Did you somehow conveniently forget about the 25-ton IS advantage? (Or was that just removed? )

[Wintersdark]

BrunoSSace, on 22 July 2017 - 05:12 PM, said:

. All I'm seeing is Claners unhappy because they don't have the massive advantage like they use to.
Bruno

Well, if you look at it from their perspective, their mechs have gotten ceaselessly worse for years, with nerf after nerf after nerf.

I'm not saying it wasn't necessary, but keep in mind how much you appreciate the odd random nerf you've got. People will get over it and move on, and for sure the game is in a better place, but just keep that in mind. Particularly when you consider from their perspective IS has been as strong all along - they're wrong, but because there's always been a few IS mechs that where competitive with Clans, pure-Clan FP players generally only encounter those specific mechs and don't often really appreciate how vast the gap has been for the rank and file IS mechs. Mostly because the average non-top tier Clan Mech is (or at least was) vastly superior to the average IS mech. They always assumed the gap was the same.

So, the bulk of those Clan FP players haven't been seeing the game from the same perspective. Their "IS mech strength" value is based wholly on the very best IS mechs taken in FP, rather than the state of the faction as a whole.

Just something to keep in mind.

[Kaeb Odellas]

Wintersdark, on 22 July 2017 - 06:47 PM, said:

Well, if you look at it from their perspective, their mechs have gotten ceaselessly worse for years, with nerf after nerf after nerf.

I'm not saying it wasn't necessary, but keep in mind how much you appreciate the odd random nerf you've got. People will get over it and move on, and for sure the game is in a better place, but just keep that in mind. Particularly when you consider from their perspective IS has been as strong all along - they're wrong, but because there's always been a few IS mechs that where competitive with Clans, pure-Clan FP players generally only encounter those specific mechs and don't often really appreciate how vast the gap has been for the rank and file IS mechs. Mostly because the average non-top tier Clan Mech is (or at least was) vastly superior to the average IS mech. They always assumed the gap was the same.

So, the bulk of those Clan FP players haven't been seeing the game from the same perspective. Their "IS mech strength" value is based wholly on the very best IS mechs taken in FP, rather than the state of the faction as a whole.

Just something to keep in mind.

It's PGI's fault, really. If they hadn't made Clan tech so stupendously overpowered when it was introduced, it wouldn't have been necessary to scale them back so much over time.

[Lightfoot]

I am good with Mechlab so I could always beat Clan mechs with Inner Sphere. Easily and always. That doesn't change the fact that new players have little understanding of how to turn an Inner Sphere Battlemech into a mech that competes with Clan omnimechs. Clan Omnimechs come complete, you can only change the weapons so new players get handed a very competitive mech. And therein lies the Clan vs I.S. discrepancy because Clan mechs and tech are so nerfed by PGI to save the new players from getting trounced.

Anyway, when I play an I.S. mech it's unstoppable, much better than Clan. With the new tech even more. But I do wonder if PGI knows they are nerfing Clan tech based on stats from players who haven't figured out how to Mechlab a Battlemech?

I mean, when I do buy a "C" class mech with the player's best design, I fix what they did wrong. In my opinion most of the "C" mechs are trash designs.

[Wintersdark]

Kaeb Odellas, on 22 July 2017 - 07:00 PM, said:

It's PGI's fault, really. If they hadn't made Clan tech so stupendously overpowered when it was introduced, it wouldn't have been necessary to scale them back so much over time.

For sure. Still, a little understanding goes a long way to everyone having a good time.

Or, in other words, DBAD, right?

[Lucian Nostra]

Wintersdark, on 22 July 2017 - 06:47 PM, said:

Well, if you look at it from their perspective, their mechs have gotten ceaselessly worse for years, with nerf after nerf after nerf.

I'm not saying it wasn't necessary, but keep in mind how much you appreciate the odd random nerf you've got. People will get over it and move on, and for sure the game is in a better place, but just keep that in mind. Particularly when you consider from their perspective IS has been as strong all along - they're wrong, but because there's always been a few IS mechs that where competitive with Clans, pure-Clan FP players generally only encounter those specific mechs and don't often really appreciate how vast the gap has been for the rank and file IS mechs. Mostly because the average non-top tier Clan Mech is (or at least was) vastly superior to the average IS mech. They always assumed the gap was the same.

So, the bulk of those Clan FP players haven't been seeing the game from the same perspective. Their "IS mech strength" value is based wholly on the very best IS mechs taken in FP, rather than the state of the faction as a whole.

Just something to keep in mind.

There's also the perspective if you look at how close faction balance is (within 6%) but that's balance without IS having access to Ultras or ER Lasers or LFEs or HPPCs/SnubPPCs etc etc it can leave some people scratching their heads when the IS gets some big game changing equipment and the Clans get yet more nerfs (heat again) /shrug. Time will tell and PGI will balance again accordingly

[Gas Guzzler]

Lucian Nostra, on 22 July 2017 - 07:07 PM, said:

There's also the perspective if you look at how close faction balance is (within 6%) but that's balance without IS having access to Ultras or ER Lasers or LFEs or HPPCs/SnubPPCs etc etc it can leave some people scratching their heads when the IS gets some big game changing equipment and the Clans get yet more nerfs (heat again) /shrug. Time will tell and PGI will balance again accordingly

Faction balance is within 6%? Where do you pull that from?

Also, what nerfs? The cERML heat increase?

[Mystere]

Kaeb Odellas, on 22 July 2017 - 07:00 PM, said:

It's PGI's fault, really. If they hadn't made Clan tech so stupendously overpowered when it was introduced, it wouldn't have been necessary to scale them back so much over time.

Or maybe they should have done 10 Clan vs. 12 IS, among other things.

[Lucian Nostra]

Gas Guzzler, on 22 July 2017 - 07:11 PM, said:

Faction balance is within 6%? Where do you pull that from?

Also, what nerfs? The cERML heat increase?

From PGI, you have to remember it's top vs top, not overall. Nobody gives a crap if the mist lynx and panther are balanced vs Cheetahs and such.

Also yeah laser heat, ppc heat. never said the nerfs where extreme but they've pulled peoples attention.

like I said, only time will tell if it's not enough, to much or just right and PGI will react accordingly (albeit a bit slowly and mislead at times)

Edited by Lucian Nostra, 22 July 2017 - 07:22 PM.

[Dr Mlem]

People hate nerfs, instead of buffs really. It gets disheartening that mechs you love and enjoy turn into massive slugs for the altar of balance.

I play both IS and Clan. And I hate to see any of my clan mechs nerfed. Same as I hated seeing IS mechs nerfed. It isn't fun to respec a mech because (insert weapon here) was nerfed. Or a mech you loved like the Kodiak was nerfed so hard it's now an obscurity.

People always like to point fingers and both sides, and claim each one is "crying", well that's the nature of online games with peoples favorite toys.

[El Bandito]

I am liking the IS ERML range, but by the GODS the heat! My Heavies can only field 17-18 DHS to cool them off and it is just not fast enough. I am accidentally overheating far more often now.

Competent Clan groups are now spamming Linebackers and Orion-IICs now--those are far more deadly than laservomit decks.

Edited by El Bandito, 22 July 2017 - 07:36 PM.

[InspectorG]

BrunoSSace, on 22 July 2017 - 05:12 PM, said:

So new techs dropped and the tech gap has closed so close together now that there seems to be no gap. The IS are now competitive with Clan counter parts. All I'm seeing is Claners unhappy because they don't have the massive advantage like they use to.
For example in FP, an Ebon Jaguar was shooting me at 600 range for around 40 alpha. I fired back using er mediums and er larges and did like 35 back to him. He was like? Back in the day, it use be a free trade for him. Now my little Grasshopper can trade back. I'm calling it now, some IS mechs might lose some of their quirks and FP tonage might become even. State of the game for an IS pilot seems very good atm.
Bruno

Sorry to burst your bubble but clans are still better via 2 slot DHS and C-Xl engine. Then, in reference t the previous, equipment that is smaller/lighter.

LFE and MRM close the gap a bit...but...DHS/XL still present the best advantage.

But dont worry, there are just as many Clan potatoes, that cant press W or read the RADAR, as there are IS potatoes.

[Gas Guzzler]

Lucian Nostra, on 22 July 2017 - 07:20 PM, said:

Also yeah laser heat, ppc heat. never said the nerfs where extreme but they've pulled peoples attention.

Well, those heat increases were relatively minor, and both came with buffs. ER MLs going back to double range has been awesome, and the ER PPC velocity has been nice as well. This is the same velocity they were at when the Clans joined the game.

[Wyald Katt]

5-3 on the Clan side so far here in Pugland. Only one of those losses was flat out non-competitive. The more things change, the more the pilots stay the same.

I'm really curious how the big picture is going to look after all the numbers get crunched.

Edited by Wyald Katt, 22 July 2017 - 07:51 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Lucian Nostra, on 22 July 2017 - 07:07 PM, said:

There's also the perspective if you look at how close faction balance is (within 6%) but that's balance without IS having access to Ultras or ER Lasers or LFEs or HPPCs/SnubPPCs etc etc it can leave some people scratching their heads when the IS gets some big game changing equipment and the Clans get yet more nerfs (heat again) /shrug. Time will tell and PGI will balance again accordingly

6% was the win-rate gap during the last event. That doesn't necessarily mean faction balance is within 6%, though. And we can't rule out the derp-factor. IMHO, you would get a better idea of where the faction balance is by looking at the proportion of Clan 'Mechs that comprise a competitive drop deck in a tournament like MWOWC, MRBC, etc. That's the very best of the best, and in some cases even the best of the rest due to the dupe rule.