1809 replies to this topic

[Lootee]

Dee Eight, on 26 July 2017 - 11:24 PM, said:

The Super Pack Valkyrie equates to a Super Veritech and to the Phoenix Hawk in Battletech. Robotech and Battletech have no versions of the Strike Valkyrie.

The BattleTech version of the Strike Valkyrie was the Phoenix Hawk LAM. It's a good thing those were retconned out of BT and not included in HBS's game or this one. The original 3025 TRO picture of the PXH LAM is the machine transformed into GERWALK mode straight out of Macross. Would have been a slam dunk judgment for Harmony ***** had they kept those mechs in the game.

Edited by Lootee, 27 July 2017 - 05:52 AM.

[Mechwarrior1441491]

I love how HG holds the rights to a plane transforming. Seems that way.

Someone should plot out the various forms of mecha, because they are ALL very similar no matter what. The Champion survived the cut. Perhaps because it had no hands. It also looks like Gerwalk mode.

If you see HG at a Con, tip their table over or something. Tell them you have the rights to flat surfaces and will see them in court.

Edited by Mechwarrior1441491, 27 July 2017 - 07:04 AM.

[Zergling]

Lootee, on 27 July 2017 - 05:45 AM, said:

The BattleTech version of the Strike Valkyrie was the Phoenix Hawk LAM. It's a good thing those were retconned out of BT and not included in HBS's game or this one. The original 3025 TRO picture of the PXH LAM is the machine transformed into GERWALK mode straight out of Macross. Would have been a slam dunk judgment for Harmony ***** had they kept those mechs in the game.

The LAMs got re-conned back into the game, with new looks:


HG can no more go after those LAMs than they can go after Transformers (which they did, and lost).

Edited by Zergling, 27 July 2017 - 07:29 AM.

[NoiseCrypt]

Maybe this is why PGI did stealth armor

[process]

u mad HG?

SDCC 2017 Jetfire

[Ken Harkin]

HG is nothing but trollers. FASA saw no point to fight this and waste money in the battle when they could simply make new mechs for the game which had taken off. HG on the other hand had Robotech and... nothing else.

HG doesn't own the designs, they own the rights to the shows.

HG can't even use the characters or mecha from those three original series in new productions because they don't own the rights to them. Look at the limited crap they have released and you will see NOTHING from the first three series because they would get their asses sued off by the Japanese companies which own them.

[Squigles]

Kargush, on 27 July 2017 - 03:26 AM, said:

Or, if HG gets to them first and points out the original deal with FASA, and how it bind anyone who does anything with BT, and we're all up the proverbial creek without a vital instrument.

Even if Weisman/FASA signed a deal saying "HG owns the rights to these images, FASA has no claim on them. This agreement is binding on everyone involved with the BATTLETECH license from now until the heat death of the universe." It wouldn't matter in even the slightest.

If the images in use are not infringing, then they're not using the images that FASA/Weisman agreed belonged to HG. Essentially, the images are either infringing or they're not, the agreement with Weisman, and what it may or may not have said is basically immaterial. If it's infringing they can't be used, if they're not, they can be.

In addition, FASA can't make a deal saying "These belong to you for eternity" and have it mean a damn thing. Unless FASA owned the rights in the first place. It would be like me and my neighbor going to court, me getting my neighbor to sign an agreement saying that your house (you that I'm replying to) belongs to me and my neighbor will never contest". That means precisely squat, because my neighbor didn't own your house to concede the rights to me.

[Chados]

https://www.unitedst...42820/32-0.html

I find this status report most interesting. PGI is going to take Harmony Gold to the cleaners in discovery. They're going to trot out all that information on the Macross copyright issue and all subsequent litigation-which is going to bring up FASA v. Playmates, where the issue revolved around whether Playmates...funded by Harmony Gold, as I have heard...was putting out a line of toys that looked a whole lot like Clan Wave 1. The Playmates "E frame" and a Timberwolf C look an awful lot alike to me, but that judge ruled they weren't substantially similar; same with the other Playmates toys vs. the rest of Wave 1. PGI's Marauder bears about the same resemblance to the Glaug Officer's Pod, i.e. not SUBSTANTIALLY similar. Harmony's got to know that going in. That win over Weisman is going to turn to ashes in HG's mouth.

In other news, they're already planning mediation after the discovery is complete, which probably will happen early next year since the trial is a year away now. They'll wind that up in August 2018, I'd guess. This won't see the light of trial. No way in hell. HG has too much to lose by a public trial and so do PGI and HBS. I project that there will be some sort of compromise, which will keep the Unseen out of Weisman's game at the least. Five of the twelve Unseen already are in MWO, so there'll be some sort of retroactive licensure that will prevent PGI from releasing any other Unseen and restrict the five they've already done to MWO and nothing else, and send some of the money from them to HG.

[MoonUnitBeta]

PREEEEEETTY sure HG triggered only by the use of "Marauder" and "Rifleman" and "Warhammer" at this point. I don't even think they even looked at the art.

"marauder"
HG: *eyes snap open at 3:32am* WHAT!!! WAS THAT???
*picks up the red phone*
HG: *incessant shouting* DO IT, DO IT NOW!! DO IT!
*3:33am, four lawyers pound fists in the centre of their circle jerk, and aggressively grope each others crotch area. A beam of divine light splits through the ceiling of the 120 floor apartment building. They ascend. A dedicated fax machine hidden in a secret vault beeps to life with all the pre-filled out paperwork sitting in tray is immediately faxed to the appropriate offices*
HG: *3:33am, HG picks teddy up off the ground and, clutching it closely, falls quickly back to sleep*


I bet if we ditched the Marauder, Warhammer, and other aliases, HG honestly wouldn't even have a clue. But the fact that these are spiritual redesigns, HG's courtroom ***** hardened a little bit.

[Mechwarrior1441491]

catalyst did redesigns and it was fine. Used the name and everything. Not sure where this is coming from now.

[Inappropriate1]

Long legal process. Will likely settle again. Remember, you do not "own" your mechs so expect some to go away or be "changed" and forget refunds.

Peace out.

[Ken Harkin]

HG has pictures of mecha not even from Macross in their complaint.

This is nothing but an expected cash grab. Your mechs are safe.

[Lightfoot]

Inappropriate1, on 27 July 2017 - 05:56 PM, said:

Long legal process. Will likely settle again. Remember, you do not "own" your mechs so expect some to go away or be "changed" and forget refunds.

Peace out.

Looking at the Macross cartoons and how the designs are interpreted there I see nothing that looks like MechWarrior. There is only a faint resemblance to some of the static art. So the two concepts are very unique, not copies.

Also, under United States copyright law, HG did not create Macross so cannot be the copyright owners. Only Studio Nue can qualify as the creator of Macross, so they would hold the copyrights. I don't know any way around that, it's the cornerstone of the new copyright laws enacted in 1975. It's already been determined that HG does not hold the right to create or modify Macross content in Japanese court rulings, something HG claims is not binding on them outside Japan. I would beg to differ on that, LoL! You need to create original content to get a copyright. What HG might hold are copyrights on how they packaged Macross for distribution, but not Macross content itself.

[Trev Firestorm]

Inappropriate1, on 27 July 2017 - 05:56 PM, said:

Long legal process. Will likely settle again. Remember, you do not "own" your mechs so expect some to go away or be "changed" and forget refunds.

Peace out.

We need a means to class action against HG, consumer protection or something I don't really care, just bombard their asses in mountains of legal... that or take a less legal route to deal with them

[Mystere]

Trev Firestorm, on 27 July 2017 - 06:56 PM, said:

We need a means to class action against HG, consumer protection or something I don't really care, just bombard their asses in mountains of legal... that or take a less legal route to deal with them

I'd rather we bombard PGI's asses with mountains of legal proceedings forcing them to finish Community Warfare to levels acceptable to me.

[Dee Eight]

Kargush, on 27 July 2017 - 03:26 AM, said:

Or, if HG gets to them first and points out the original deal with FASA, and how it bind anyone who does anything with BT, and we're all up the proverbial creek without a vital instrument.

FASA doesn't exist anymore and any deals made with them are null and void.

[Dee Eight]

Ken Harkin, on 27 July 2017 - 08:04 AM, said:

HG is nothing but trollers. FASA saw no point to fight this and waste money in the battle when they could simply make new mechs for the game which had taken off. HG on the other hand had Robotech and... nothing else.

HG doesn't own the designs, they own the rights to the shows.

HG can't even use the characters or mecha from those three original series in new productions because they don't own the rights to them. Look at the limited crap they have released and you will see NOTHING from the first three series because they would get their asses sued off by the Japanese companies which own them.

Robotech : The Shadow Chronicles... would beg to differ with that statement. While HG do NOT own the rights to the original SDF:Macross, their deal for Super Dimensional Calvary : Southern Cross, and Genesis Climber Mospeada was different, and thus when they did the Shadow Chronicles movie, they picked up from the end of the "new generation" saga just as it ended and re-used characters from both of those series and from the abortive Robotech : The Sentinels tv series (which only had 3 episodes made) while also introducing new ones. However that was 10 years ago now.

Ironically a trademark that HG took out during that period... for "Shadow Rising" which was to be the sequel to Shadow Chronicles...has apparently been abandoned. Maybe HBS/PGI should go about trademarking terms and names from Robotech and shaft HG's future usage of those properties. *** for Tat as it were.

Edited by Dee Eight, 27 July 2017 - 07:34 PM.

[Trev Firestorm]

Mystere, on 27 July 2017 - 07:07 PM, said:

I'd rather we bombard PGI's asses with mountains of legal proceedings forcing them to finish Community Warfare to levels acceptable to me.

Lol, thats an entirely different matter which I wouldn't be opposed to.

[Kargush]

Dee Eight, on 27 July 2017 - 07:20 PM, said:

FASA doesn't exist anymore and any deals made with them are null and void.

Ah, but Weisman is still around, and if the deal includes him, anything he has touched (like MWO, HBS, and so forth) is tainted. The deal might also be tied to the IP, in which case no-one who touched BT or derivatives (like MechWarrior) are safe.

Edited by Kargush, 27 July 2017 - 11:33 PM.

[Anjian]

Copyright is copyright but I would go with Weisman and PGI here. Copyright can only awarded and owned by the Creator of the works, which Harmony Gold is simply not, or by the Employer of the Creator, which Harmony Gold is also simply not. Weisman and PGI simply cannot be charged for copyright violations when in fact there is no copyright here. A license isn't a copyright.

The mecha themselves will not stand the test of being a valid copyright because ORIGINALITY is a requirement for copyright. Even at the time Macross was made, there were already tons of giant robots in other anime and TV shows, plus the fact that when the mechs are in their plane mode, those planes like the F-14 Tomcat are owned by Grumman who is now owned by Northrop as Northrop Grumman. Those "Veritech" fighters simply cannot be copyrighted because they look like actual planes whose designs themselves are already copyrighted by the defense companies.

Here is another factor --- Japan itself, the Japanese anime industry with the support of the Japanese government, have become more assertive and proactive protecting their related copyrights, as well as obtaining revenue from their works. Sooner or later, the Japanese companies (Kadokawa, Bandai, etc,.) are going to reassert themselves over the Macross issue since they are losing potential revenue not being able to license these shows and merchandise to North America, and when they do that, its Harmony Gold that will be on their cross sights.

Copyright is copyright but I would go with Weisman and PGI here. Copyright can only awarded and owned by the Creator of the works, which Harmony Gold is simply not, or by the Employer of the Creator, which Harmony Gold is also simply not. Weisman and PGI simply cannot be charged for copyright violations when in fact there is no copyright here. A license isn't a copyright.

The mecha themselves will not stand the test of being a valid copyright because ORIGINALITY is a requirement for copyright. Even at the time Macross was made, there were already tons of giant robots in other anime and TV shows, plus the fact that when the mechs are in their plane mode, those planes like the F-14 Tomcat are owned by Grumman who is now owned by Northrop as Northrop Grumman. Those "Veritech" fighters simply cannot be copyrighted because they look like actual planes whose designs themselves are already copyrighted by the defense companies.

Here is another factor --- Japan itself, the Japanese anime industry with the support of the Japanese government, have become more assertive and proactive protecting their related copyrights. While this maybe targeting pirates originally, this also targets companies that are marketing products based on modified anime designs from copyrighted works. Sooner or later, the Japanese companies (Kadokawa, Bandai, etc,.) are going to reassert themselves over the Macross issue since they are losing potential revenue not being able to license these shows to North America, and when they do that, its Harmony Gold that will be on their cross sights.

Edited by Anjian, 28 July 2017 - 03:11 AM.