1809 replies to this topic

[Sereglach]

PheonixStorm, on 21 April 2018 - 04:26 AM, said:

All documents are posted at midnight (PST) on pacermonitor.

Good to know. Still sadly doesn't change the fact that we've always been at least a few days behind at any given point.

[Alan Davion]

guardiandashi, on 21 April 2018 - 08:33 AM, said:

where as HG has been sounding more and more desperate with most of their arguments boiling down to "the proof is We said so"

That's pretty much been HG's stance on the whole subject of their "ownership" since day one, thirty-some-odd years ago hasn't it?

And up until now, that's been good enough by dint of their ability to burn more money on the subject than their opponents.

[guardiandashi]

Alan Davion, on 21 April 2018 - 11:42 AM, said:

That's pretty much been HG's stance on the whole subject of their "ownership" since day one, thirty-some-odd years ago hasn't it?

And up until now, that's been good enough by dint of their ability to burn more money on the subject than their opponents.

mm I am not sure about that, but this is definitely a case where it sure seems that they are getting desperate, and the judge has already called them on it more than once (for example his statement that he was willing to consider rule 11 sanctions against HG)
Rule 11 is typically used by the courts to penalize lawyers who don't do their due diligence and waste the courts time with bad behaviors and (arguably) frivolous law suits. it can include financial sanctions on (typically) the lawyer that they are NOT allowed to pass on to their client, and the court has significant discretion on what constitutes an adequate fine to discourage said behavior in the future.

[BadgerWI]

Ummm so no news is good news?

[naterist]

BadgerWI, on 24 April 2018 - 05:41 AM, said:

Ummm so no news is good news?

No updates, but docket 119 is worth the money. Its a good read if you can ignore all the redacted text.

[guardiandashi]

https://drive.google...WcRF6V7ekyIucAV

link to 119 thanks to abou for picking it up from the courts

basically despite all HG's mistatements tripple hearsay and other things the facts are the facts, they have not in any way actually proven they have standing. if anyone does its big west.

Edited by guardiandashi, 24 April 2018 - 07:06 AM.

[Metus regem]

guardiandashi, on 24 April 2018 - 07:05 AM, said:

https://drive.google...WcRF6V7ekyIucAV

link to 119 thanks to abou for picking it up from the courts

basically despite all HG's mistatements tripple hearsay and other things the facts are the facts, they have not in any way actually proven they have standing. if anyone does its big west.

Wow, that was a good read, my impression form it is this:

[FireStoat]

I read all of 119. I'm not an attorney but worked for 3 years in a law office as a paralegal so I'm conversant with the jargon. Harmony Gold is in a tough place at the moment because up until now they've used witness statement, past lawsuit resolution, and other support which all falls short of being able to produce some legally notarized pieces of paper that state what their legal rights are with the material, and who granted it to them, and when. That's the heart of the case, as folks have pointed out in previous posts.

119 I think will seal the deal unless Harmony Gold can come up with valid documentation that's recognized by the court as to what they actually own this time - they were called out on their BS of getting Tatsunoko to parrot out some words that aren't legally supported by any printed material. How quickly will a decision be made for the summary judgement? Soon, and I don't mean that in the software design industry standard sense.

[James Argent]

naterist, on 24 April 2018 - 06:36 AM, said:

No updates, but docket 119 is worth the money. Its a good read if you can ignore all the redacted text.

It helps if you fill in the blanks the the redacted text leaves with variations of 'because Harmony Gold has romantic encounters with goats' and 'Harmony Gold prides themselves on eating feces from the tap.'

[Chados]

I actually am an attorney, thought not an IP counsel. I read 119 too, and no, it does not seal the deal-what it is, simply is a well-constructed but partisan rebuttal, by PGI’s defense team, of Harmony Gold’s ongoing claims that HG’s exclusive rights in the Unseen descend from the rights granted by Tatsunoko. As Mr. Meiklejohn and learned friends point out, Big West is the 800 pound gorilla in the room. You can’t get to them by hearsay, and a lot of HG’s defense in summary judgment relies on hearsay, so PGI’s team may be onto something there.

The whole thing about the letters rogattory is interesting. If I were the judge I wouldn’t buy the argument that a major discovery issue shouldn’t slam the brakes on summary judgment. I think it should-if there is something that only discovery from the third party, Big West, can answer, then that ought to be exhausted before the right of the plaintiff to proceed to trial gets extinguished summarily. The whole summary judgment issue is founded upon who has what rights. If HG isn’t allowed to explore that completely, to the point that the Japanese court’s rule on the production of those documents one way or the other, the lower court risks the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals invalidating a summary judgment order.

But consider this-HG has another problem if this ever gets to trial: Fair use. Is there not an argument that PGI’s Reseen, in the context that they were introduced and with the changes, is in fact transformative as contemplated in Acuff-Rose Publishing v. Campbell, 510 U.S. 569 (1994)? I think PGI might have a good argument for that.

[Horseman]

Chados, on 25 April 2018 - 03:08 AM, said:

The whole thing about the letters rogattory is interesting. If I were the judge I wouldn’t buy the argument that a major discovery issue shouldn’t slam the brakes on summary judgment. I think it should-if there is something that only discovery from the third party, Big West, can answer, then that ought to be exhausted before the right of the plaintiff to proceed to trial gets extinguished summarily. The whole summary judgment issue is founded upon who has what rights. If HG isn’t allowed to explore that completely, to the point that the Japanese court’s rule on the production of those documents one way or the other, the lower court risks the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals invalidating a summary judgment order.

If there are legal documents that grant Tatsunoko rights to license said mecha further, they should be in Tatsunoko's possession already. That's one of the things PGI is pointing out.

Quote

But consider this-HG has another problem if this ever gets to trial: Fair use. Is there not an argument that PGI’s Reseen, in the context that they were introduced and with the changes, is in fact transformative as contemplated in Acuff-Rose Publishing v. Campbell, 510 U.S. 569 (1994)? I think PGI might have a good argument for that.

That's if they're even ruled infringing to begin with. The entire point of the changes made to the designs is that the result does not violate the protectible trade dress of their original inspirations. This is exactly what FASA ran into when they sued Playmates over the Heavy Attack E-Frame, and what got Playmates out scot-free.

That's this wonderful thing:

[evilauthor]

Horseman, on 25 April 2018 - 03:47 AM, said:

That's if they're even ruled infringing to begin with. The entire point of the changes made to the designs is that the result does not violate the protectible trade dress of their original inspirations. This is exactly what FASA ran into when they sued Playmates over the Heavy Attack E-Frame, and what got Playmates out scot-free.

That's this wonderful thing:

Yep. And many of PGI's design are even more different from their Macross inspirations than the Playmates design is from FASA's Timberwolf.

[Dee Eight]

Metus regem, on 24 April 2018 - 07:24 AM, said:

Wow, that was a good read, my impression form it is this:

Here I fixed that for you.

[DFM]

just to keep this up to date a bit, HG has submitted response to #119.


#120,121 &122.

Basically, HG says wait a minute, you can't introduce a new argument thats unfair, it should be stricken. Or we should be allowed to respond to it, here's our response.

says they have the rights to video games for the shows(not DYRL), and that 2 of the mechs (Marauder and Archer, cept they used the Macross names) only appeared in the shows not the movie.

With the lovely, "I deal with this stuff daily as HG's in house lawyer" as usual. Along with posting the 2008 contract for the DYRL rights from TP to HG. Which is no longer valid, but hey, don't pay attention to that.

Anyone got a copy of 119? I swore PGI was using the line art as copyright defense , AKA you don't own this crap so **********.

[evilauthor]

DFM, on 27 April 2018 - 04:23 PM, said:

just to keep this up to date a bit, HG has submitted response to #119.


#120,121 &122.

Basically, HG says wait a minute, you can't introduce a new argument thats unfair, it should be stricken. Or we should be allowed to respond to it, here's our response.

Eh, what? What new argument are they talking about? I thought they were currently wrangling over HG's "ownership" if Macross designs and their right to sue.

[guardiandashi]

posted on the battletech forums by Horseman

121
https://drive.google...ak2giDC6V3/view
121-1 (exhibit A)
https://drive.google...gTjmNiqmlE/view
122
https://drive.google...h_dBcA4iJY/view

in 121 (1st paragraph (lines 7-10) HG is claiming that piranha is introducing a "new" arguement in an improper way IE that they are adding a new arguement in a reply which is not allowed (except HG has done it repeatedly) and thats not actually what Piranha did they clarified additional ways that HG lacks standing.
then they add 121-1 exhibit A in which Tatsunoko basically gave HG all their merchandising rights to the DYRL movie, but not broadcast, videogram, and video game rights are not included (because they were retained by big west as far as I can tell)

122 is a statement by one of their in house lawyers claiming that Tatsunoko gave HG all the rights for merchandising (except video games) to HG in 2008.

However based on my reading of what it explicitly says in exhibit A HG is again claiming more rights than are actually conferred to them.

guardiandashi, on 24 April 2018 - 07:05 AM, said:

https://drive.google...WcRF6V7ekyIucAV

link to 119 thanks to abou for picking it up from the courts

basically despite all HG's mistatements tripple hearsay and other things the facts are the facts, they have not in any way actually proven they have standing. if anyone does its big west.

I linked 119 in a previous post on this page that I am quoting

[JediPanther]

I just want to know two things:

How badly did HG get their elbows,knee caps, and teeth bashed in by pgi?

When do we get the we-killed-hg celebratory mech pack?

[Alan Davion]

JediPanther, on 27 April 2018 - 07:29 PM, said:

I just want to know two things:

How badly did HG get their elbows,knee caps, and teeth bashed in by pgi?

When do we get the we-killed-hg celebratory mech pack?

Whoa slow down there tiger. HG hasn't lost yet, but I get the feeling they're just playing a delaying game at this point given what was just posted.

You'll know when HG got their teeth knocked out as soon as the rest of us do, when someone with a PACER account puts up the documents that say HG got their teeth knocked out.

As far as a celebratory mech pack, don't expect that for at least 6 months after we've won.

[James Argent]

guardiandashi, on 27 April 2018 - 06:14 PM, said:

122 is a statement by one of their in house lawyers claiming that Tatsunoko gave HG all the rights for merchandising (except video games) to HG in 2008.

I don't understand how HG can possibly think this will help their claim that the video game maker PGI is infringing upon their copyright.

[Horseman]

James Argent, on 27 April 2018 - 09:01 PM, said:

I don't understand how HG can possibly think this will help their claim that the video game maker PGI is infringing upon their copyright.

PGI brought that one up as an argument that Harmony Gold doesn't have the rights.
Harmony Gold is arguing that this detail only relates to their license for DYRL, while their license to the original Macross does include video game rights.

DOC DUMP
Contains all documents available on Internet Archive or previously posted (if I missed something that was shared, do let me know)

Edited by Horseman, 28 April 2018 - 01:30 AM.