1809 replies to this topic

[Valdarion Silarius]

Vanguard836, on 14 May 2018 - 11:42 AM, said:

So where are we at now ?

I think we are still waiting for something to happen. Expect something around the 18th.

[The Lighthouse]

Horseman, on 14 May 2018 - 10:54 AM, said:

They forbade discussion of those parts of those subjects that are not directly relevant to the present lawsuit, since the thread kept derailing.

And then IMMEDIATELY after a moderator post telling them not to do it (or else), a few people started bringing those subjects up AGAIN anyway.

I would not be surprised if this time they ended up permanently locking that thread and making the entire subject of the lawsuit off-limits on CGL forums.

Except you really cannot discuss this whole lawsuit... without talking about those pictures in the first place... because those pictures are the very main reason how this lawsuit started, you know.

As Arnold The Governator said, those mods are truly idiots, and themselves are actually often the biggest contributors on several troubles due to idiotic moderation; the prime reason why the forum is not that active anymore.

[AzureRathalos]

Quote

• The Unseen, including any speculation about their return
  
• The Reseen
  
• Your personal opinion of the artwork of any BattleTech unit
  
• Miniatures
  
• The American court system in general, save where discussing specific legal points directly germane to the case
  
• Your ill wishes towards Harmony Gold, employees thereof, the judiciary, me, or in fact anyone at all
  
• Would-be witty remarks about the mods' handling of this thread
  
• Sarna's coverage of the case and its accuracy or lack thereof
  
• The Unseen

Let's see, in our own humble topic here, we've broken 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, and 9.

The thing is, overall we've been very civil about things. It's not like we've had to have the mods come in to apply sweeping deletions.

It makes me wonder about the kind of posts that prompted the actions at the other board.

[Horseman]

Arnold The Governator, on 14 May 2018 - 11:02 AM, said:

I disagree with their list of rules,

Their house, their rules.

Quote

since the discussion of the court case is revolving around the artwork of the unseen and the ones in question.

Not exactly. The court case is revolving around the artwork of Big West Characters, PGI's MWO-Reseen and Catalyst's NuSeen. What the mods there got ticked off about was people bringing in discussion of other Unseen (the Dougram-derived ones) and discussing the artwork itself outside of where and how precisely relevant to the case.

AzureRathalos, on 14 May 2018 - 02:23 PM, said:

Let's see, in our own humble topic here, we've broken 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, and 9.
The thing is, overall we've been very civil about things. It's not like we've had to have the mods come in to apply sweeping deletions.
It makes me wonder about the kind of posts that prompted the actions at the other board.

Recurring major derails after several times the thread was locked before.

The Lighthouse, on 14 May 2018 - 12:02 PM, said:

Except you really cannot discuss this whole lawsuit... without talking about those pictures in the first place... because those pictures are the very main reason how this lawsuit started, you know.

You absolutely can, when discussing it in legal context and not that of the artwork itself. People were discussing the artwork instead of the actual lawsuit (and some artwork irrelevant to it as well)

Edited by Horseman, 14 May 2018 - 02:39 PM.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Horseman, on 14 May 2018 - 02:33 PM, said:

You absolutely can, when discussing it in legal context and not that of the artwork itself. People were discussing the artwork instead of the actual lawsuit (and some artwork irrelevant to it as well)

I'd just like to point out, that the Artwork is the central reason behind any of this... it all comes down to the depiction of these mechs, and if they are "similar enough" to the Macross "originals" to warrant infringement.

That's what this case has been about the entire time, thinking otherwise is insanity.

Now what PGI has done, is essentially had their lawyers point out "Yeah sure, it's about this, BUT hey, did you know, that HG doesn't have the proper rights to said images to come after us?"

So, Harmony Gold has set forth a lawsuit that is, inherently, about THE ART.

PGI, is the one changing the conversation [and with damned good reason.] that it doesn't matter, because HG doesn't have the proper rights to "the Art." to be bringing suit.

Regardless, the central crux of the "legal context" of the suit... is, in regards to the art in question.

[Shadowomega1]

Yes but when the current phase is dealing with if HG has even has the rights to sue. If it goes on to court next year then it will be directly about the art and it will be about copyright violation over iteration or is it due to what is considered generic humanoid robotic design with generic military hardware design. IE gun barrels for arms, air search radar.

[evilauthor]

Arnold The Governator, on 14 May 2018 - 11:52 AM, said:

I think we are still waiting for something to happen. Expect something around the 18th.

Last I heard, we were expecting to hear news on the 5th or a few days after that. We're now more than a week past that date.

[Sereglach]

evilauthor, on 14 May 2018 - 04:36 PM, said:

Last I heard, we were expecting to hear news on the 5th or a few days after that. We're now more than a week past that date.

The 5th was the earliest, and the 18th is the latest that the judge could make a decision on the summary judgment issue. However, because of legal postings and the rate of information dissemination, it could be up to a week past the 18th before we hear anything.

[evilauthor]

Sereglach, on 14 May 2018 - 04:38 PM, said:

it could be up to a week past the 18th before we hear anything.

[Horseman]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 14 May 2018 - 03:14 PM, said:

I'd just like to point out, that the Artwork is the central reason behind any of this... it all comes down to the depiction of these mechs, and if they are "similar enough" to the Macross "originals" to warrant infringement.

Context is everything, mate. The thread on CGL forums repeatedy derailed into discussion of Dougram unseen, the probability of CGL and/or PGI licensing the original artwork from Big West in the future and personal opinions on the quality of the artwork rather than how it pertained to the current case.

[The Lighthouse]

evilauthor, on 14 May 2018 - 05:10 PM, said:

In America, those who have deepest pockets are the ones who can claim innocent. Expect this thing drags for a long time if the judge does not dismiss this lawsuit by June.

Horseman, on 14 May 2018 - 09:14 PM, said:

Context is everything, mate. The thread on CGL forums repeatedy derailed into discussion of Dougram unseen, the probability of CGL and/or PGI licensing the original artwork from Big West in the future and personal opinions on the quality of the artwork rather than how it pertained to the current case.

Yes, because those things are very well deeply related to this lawsuit, and people had to squeeze themselves to talk about lawsuit without talking about these things, which is really next to impossible anyway. Literally the failure on the quality of the artwork created all of these legal limbo in the first place, and we can't talk about that?


I laughed so hard when these mods put special rules on that specific thread, and all I felt was they really, really wanted to kill the thread, and it seems they are succeeding in doing so.


I understand they don't want people to talk about lawsuit in their forum, or any public space, but they don't understand it is such a huge disservice to everyone who has interest in Battletech by treating people like this.


It would had been so much better if these stupid people could come out a bit more honest and say "Hey guys, for the sake of the lawsuit itself and preventing possible additional damage to us, we really should not talk about the lawsuit publicly."

But obviously they have to further damage themselves by infuriating their own forum members.

Edited by The Lighthouse, 14 May 2018 - 09:49 PM.

[Fyrwulf]

The Lighthouse, on 14 May 2018 - 09:47 PM, said:

In America, those who have deepest pockets are the ones who can claim innocent. Expect this thing drags for a long time if the judge does not dismiss this lawsuit by June.

Yeah, you're full of ****.

[Alan Davion]

Fyrwulf, on 16 May 2018 - 02:20 PM, said:

Yeah, you're full of ****.

He's not as wrong as you think he is.

Harmony Gold's entire legal strategy up until this point has basically been to bully whoever their suing with their deeper pockets. That strategy worked up until a few years ago when they tried to take on Hasbro and ultimately got a taste of their own medicine.

Now, HG certainly has deeper pockets than PGI, that much is for sure, but, they were not counting on PGI's willingness to actually fight them over this, and now HG is in panic mode because no one has ever actually fought them, legally speaking, this hard and this long.

[Sereglach]

Alan Davion, on 16 May 2018 - 03:19 PM, said:

Now, HG certainly has deeper pockets than PGI, that much is for sure, but, they were not counting on PGI's willingness to actually fight them over this, and now HG is in panic mode because no one has ever actually fought them, legally speaking, this hard and this long.

There's another facet. If you remember, around the time the first Classic was announced, the very question of a HG lawsuit came up. Russ stated that they had discussions with all the powers involved in the decisions (Catalyst and Topps from the TT side of rebirthing the Classics, and his board and MS on their side) and Russ said they had full backing . . . being quite willing to fight it out. There is a chance that PGI might actually receive legal support from MS if money for the lawsuit gets too tight. Just because we're not seeing/hearing about any support from MS doesn't mean they're not -or won't be- receiving it.

Remember, on the business side of things, MS is clamoring for IPs left and right (buying out Halo, trying to get Xbone/PC exclusives left and right, etc.); and they're probably sick and tired of sitting on what could be a blockbuster IP while doing nothing with it. PGI and HBS, mainly HBS, have shown what the IP is capable of, and you can bet your rear-end that MS will want to protect and capitalize on it. MS owns the electronic Battletech IP . . . so this fight does involve them, in a sense, because a negative hit to the IP right now is a negative hit to them; and because of aforementioned reasons MS does NOT want that to happen.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Sereglach, on 16 May 2018 - 05:00 PM, said:

Remember, on the business side of things, MS is clamoring for IPs left and right (buying out Halo, trying to get Xbone/PC exclusives left and right, etc.); and they're probably sick and tired of sitting on what could be a blockbuster IP while doing nothing with it. PGI and HBS, mainly HBS, have shown what the IP is capable of, and you can bet your rear-end that MS will want to protect and capitalize on it. MS owns the electronic Battletech IP . . . so this fight does involve them, in a sense, because a negative hit to the IP right now is a negative hit to them; and because of aforementioned reasons MS does NOT want that to happen.

That is true. If Microsoft realizes what is at stake here they aren't going to let this case go to the wayside. If they choose not to get involved and let PGI go if this gets too costly for PGI, then there will be no future developers willing to take the Battletech license since HG will do nothing but harass future developers if they even think about adding any classic unseen "derivatives" to their game (and probably any mechs for that matter). If Microsoft got involved in this case, watch HG change their attitude about everything and attempt to drop out of the case. It would be icing on the cake if HG got penalized with the rule 11 sanctions for wasting everyone's time in addition to that.

[Horseman]

The Lighthouse, on 14 May 2018 - 09:47 PM, said:

Yes, because those things are very well deeply related to this lawsuit, and people had to squeeze themselves to talk about lawsuit without talking about these things,

They actually have sod all to do with it and have at best a tangential relation to the subject.

Quote

Literally the failure on the quality of the artwork created all of these legal limbo in the first place,

No, it didn't. Licensing from the wrong people and having Harmony Gold license the same property did.

Edited by Horseman, 17 May 2018 - 04:21 AM.

[Dee Eight]

Don't forget...Revell had already licensed the toy molds for model kits for some of the macross mecha PRIOR to HG getting involved with the anime, and actually marketed their "ROBOTECH Defenders" lineup of model kits. That HG then went and used the name Robotech themselves, and even included the words "robotech defenders" in the dialogue of the subsequent english language tv-show... is more icing on the cake of IP confusion.

https://en.wikipedia...otech_Defenders

[Alan Davion]

Dee Eight, on 17 May 2018 - 07:24 AM, said:

Don't forget...Revell had already licensed the toy molds for model kits for some of the macross mecha PRIOR to HG getting involved with the anime, and actually marketed their "ROBOTECH Defenders" lineup of model kits. That HG then went and used the name Robotech themselves, and even included the words "robotech defenders" in the dialogue of the subsequent english language tv-show... is more icing on the cake of IP confusion.

https://en.wikipedia...otech_Defenders

What's really funny is, the "Robotech Defenders" line actually used the mecha from the Dougram anime series, and we all know what Battlemechs those would become.

[James Argent]

I have, locked away in a trunk, some poorly-assembled versions of the Revell models. It was from before I learned how to properly assemble plastic models, and I think perhaps sometime I may be able to restore them (with any mistakes I can't fix being converted to weathering/battle damage) and have proper display versions of the Wolverine, Thunderbolt, Griffin, and Goliath.

Heck, I may even get around to assembling that huge vinyl Timberwolf model FASA sold...I never did seriously investigate the techniques required for that.

Edited by James Argent, 17 May 2018 - 01:08 PM.

[Metus regem]

James Argent, on 17 May 2018 - 01:08 PM, said:

I have, locked away in a trunk, some poorly-assembled versions of the Revell models. It was from before I learned how to properly assemble plastic models, and I think perhaps sometime I may be able to restore them (with any mistakes I can't fix being converted to weathering/battle damage) and have proper display versions of the Wolverine, Thunderbolt, Griffin, and Goliath.

Heck, I may even get around to assembling that huge vinyl Timberwolf model FASA sold...I never did seriously investigate the techniques required for that.

That Timby is a nice model, a buddy of mine has one as well as a Mad Dog.