1809 replies to this topic

[Horseman]

http://www.sarna.net...wyer-weighs-in/

Something actually useful for the discussion.

[Adridos]

Horseman, on 19 May 2018 - 12:09 AM, said:

http://www.sarna.net...wyer-weighs-in/

Something actually useful for the discussion.

Well I'll be damned, Sarna finally got their ducks in a row and produced an article about this case worth reading for once.
And yeah, it sums up the current situation well.

We'll see how it goes in a few days. Pacer already updated the case for today and there's been nothing new. The wait is still on.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Horseman, on 19 May 2018 - 12:09 AM, said:

http://www.sarna.net...wyer-weighs-in/

Something actually useful for the discussion.

Really nothing new said here... and anyone with a little sense about them knew this is exactly what's going on.

I'm still holding the hope the judge tosses this out, but we may be in for the long haul, regardless... it'll be a hell of a fight either way.

[Will9761]

I do hope PGI wins this fight.

[Sereglach]

Will9761, on 19 May 2018 - 01:14 PM, said:

I do hope PGI wins this fight.

I think all of us feel that way . . . even those of us -like myself- who aren't very fond of PGI's handling of MWO. The Battletech IP NEEDS this win; and rightly deserves it.

[Trystan Thorne]

Sereglach, on 19 May 2018 - 03:55 PM, said:

I think all of us feel that way . . . even those of us -like myself- who aren't very fond of PGI's handling of MWO. The Battletech IP NEEDS this win; and rightly deserves it.

PGI sure did some mistakes, and while I critisised them often enough, I am grateful that they helped keeping BattleTech alive (and obviously also grateful for their Mech designs).
And they did some other good things too though.

It's a pity that HG started all this again (even with the changed designs), but let's hope PGI wins this and BattleTech and MechWarrior can finaly leave that chapter behind.

[Valdarion Silarius]

Sereglach, on 19 May 2018 - 03:55 PM, said:

I think all of us feel that way . . . even those of us -like myself- who aren't very fond of PGI's handling of MWO. The Battletech IP NEEDS this win; and rightly deserves it.

I've had some criticisms and hiccups with MW:O over the years and had my fun as well. I used to play during the times it was only IS vs IS before I made this forum account. While I hope MW:O continues to grow beyond 2018, if PGI wins this it would be the single greatest thing they could possibly do for the Battletech/Mechwarrior franchise period. We know this and I think they know this. I almost guarantee you will see a surge of returning players including myself if they manage to throw HG in the gutter where they rightfully belong.

Edited by Arnold The Governator, 19 May 2018 - 05:51 PM.

[Chados]

Horseman, on 19 May 2018 - 12:09 AM, said:

http://www.sarna.net...wyer-weighs-in/

Something actually useful for the discussion.

This guy is saying exactly what *I* have been saying for months. I’m not an IP lawyer...I practice in a different field...but it’s still good to see some common sense in print about this case for a change.

[The Lighthouse]

Yes.

If judge does not toss this by June, this will last for a very long time.

It sounds kind of trolling, but this is one of bigger reasons why everyone should spend money to PGI to fund this lawsuit.

[FireStoat]

I broke my "wallet is closed" policy with PGI and bought a small amount of MC to get a Bounty Hunter II that was on sale mostly because I felt like giving PGI something for sticking this lawsuit out. The mech is awfully good too but it was mostly a donation sort of effort. I need PGI to win, I need Unseen in HBS Battletech like you wouldn't believe. It has to happen.

@James Argent up above - the 99 cent stores sell this yellow liquid cleaner called Totally Awesome Cleaner or the like, and if you soak lead, pewter, polystyrene or plastic models in a pyrex dish overnight with the stuff, it strips off water and acrylic based paints or primers really well, and it weakens the bonds of lightly applied glues or even super glues very well, if excessive melting and bonding hasn't happened. I've used it repeatedly to strip Warhammer 40k models purchased from Ebay that had sour, gooped on paint jobs to take them down to their original material and detail using a soft toothbrush.

Edited by FireStoat, 20 May 2018 - 10:55 AM.

[MechaBattler]

The Lighthouse, on 20 May 2018 - 04:16 AM, said:

Yes.

If judge does not toss this by June, this will last for a very long time.

It sounds kind of trolling, but this is one of bigger reasons why everyone should spend money to PGI to fund this lawsuit.

PGI should put out a "Warchest" pack. I would buy it. If there's one thing the Battletech fanbase is probably united on it, it's their hate for HG.

[Koniving]

So this is less to do with the case, and more to do with a sudden urge to make a 3D model of the Long Bow after first finding an old Macross toy of that Destroid in an old box and while looking through Battlecorps, seeing it drawn to an awesome quality with a destroyed Crusader in the background...

There's a lot of Longbow art, Unseen, Reseen, Re-reseen and fan-made.

Using spoilers (so as to not derail the conversations here) or dropping to my instant box.. what're some of your favorite Longbow arts that are not unseen. Anyone know what the earliest reseen art is? (There is so many arts of so many different variants its hard to know).

[Leone]

Chados, on 20 May 2018 - 02:31 AM, said:

This guy is saying exactly what *I* have been saying for months. I’m not an IP lawyer...I practice in a different field...but it’s still good to see some common sense in print about this case for a change.

I've been listening. I just don't post much if I don't have anything to add. Worry not, some of us appreciated your insights.

~Leone.

[Will9761]

I have to be honest here, but anyone here who hopes that PGI should lose to HG are nothing more than a bunch of idiots who should have left a long time ago. I understand that sometimes PGI does things that are head scratchers and eyebrow raisers. Heck, even I have been aggravated with PGI for how they have handled MWO sometimes, but they have redeemed themselves in some cases. Sure, I get that as dissapointed as we are with PGI, we just want them to do better. But if it bothers people to a point to where they want to say, "YAY HG WON! SCREW YOU PGI! THAT'LL TEACH YOU A LESSON FOR WHAT YOU DID TO THE IP!" or "PGI deserves to lose for what they did to MWO." than they just take the high road and leave entirely if that's how they feel about it. Because people like those don't deserve any type of respect and shouldn't be referred to as a Battletech or Mechwarrior fan. Because what they don't understand is that not only does it hurt PGI but HBS as well, and on top of that, there is no one else who would bother with the BT/MW license. But people, who want to keep the hate alive by sporting moronic PGI forum signatures and do lowdown stuff like criticizing charity events or the like, are just like Macbeth's quote: "It is nothing more than a tale told by idiots full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

TL:DR Version:
Despite the mishaps of PGI, we are upset because we care and want them to do better. In this regard, at least PGI is actually trying. I don't mind criticism at all, but when people get to a point where they become toxic even hoping for PGI to lose against HG because of past grudges, they should uninstall MWO and leave the forums entirely.

Edited by Will9761, 20 May 2018 - 12:25 PM.

[Exilyth]

FireStoat, on 20 May 2018 - 10:54 AM, said:

I've used it repeatedly to strip Warhammer 40k models purchased from Ebay that had sour, gooped on paint jobs to take them down to their original material and detail using a soft toothbrush.

For paintjobs on scale models or miniatures, there's a bit of advice that can not be repeated often enough: THIN YOUR PAINTS!

Koniving, on 20 May 2018 - 11:13 AM, said:

So this is less to do with the case, and more to do with a sudden urge to make a 3D model of the Long Bow

Sarna might be a good start for reference images: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Longbow
I'd say try the forums over on https://bg.battletech.com/, but afaik they have rules in place against posting the unseen (reseen are fine though).



Too bad there's no new news on the case yet - the suspense is killing me.

Edited by Exilyth, 20 May 2018 - 12:34 PM.

[Koniving]

Exilyth, on 20 May 2018 - 12:33 PM, said:

Sarna might be a good start for reference images: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Longbow
I'd say try the forums over on https://bg.battletech.com/, but afaik they have rules in place against posting the unseen (reseen are fine though).

It is a start, but they are so wildly different even within the same generation that its really hard to go off of. 0C looks like the 32nd century one... but is the "original", and then in a speed upgrade it, dropping 2 lasers and half a ton of armor makes it look like the Destroid...
There's so much horse to it.. Then later 7 generations of the mech later we have the modernized version which somehow shrinked it quite a bit (with no loss in weight), and then as an upgrade the 12th generation model triples its size (with no gain in weight)... The wild inconsistency is pretty hard to shake.

And that's not even pointing out that the 12R and 12C look to have entirely different skeletons and armor molds....yet look more like the original than the 7th gen model does. Really the "0C" looks like the evolution of the 12C and 12R and its next step.

Spoiler

How does this...


Evolve to this.

And then become this in a few hundred years..

before a tech revolution brings it to this.

With this as a variant?

Its like it was totally reengineered from the ground up in just a few years between the 12C and 12R. If even.
And if you can make 85 tons work with such a small machine and still carry the full load of ammo, why the hell would you then make it bigger?

Thus its why I'm hoping to find something more consistent. There's good fan arts to be found but I haven't really got a favorite yet.

The Longbow really suffered from poor art direction in its rehashes, back-edits, etc.

Edited by Koniving, 20 May 2018 - 01:05 PM.

[James Argent]

FireStoat, on 20 May 2018 - 10:54 AM, said:

@James Argent up above - the 99 cent stores sell this yellow liquid cleaner called Totally Awesome Cleaner or the like, and if you soak lead, pewter, polystyrene or plastic models in a pyrex dish overnight with the stuff, it strips off water and acrylic based paints or primers really well, and it weakens the bonds of lightly applied glues or even super glues very well, if excessive melting and bonding hasn't happened. I've used it repeatedly to strip Warhammer 40k models purchased from Ebay that had sour, gooped on paint jobs to take them down to their original material and detail using a soft toothbrush.

Depends on the paints used, but for enamels on metal miniatures (which I never used on Citadel minis) good success is found with brake fluid, but you have to watch it very carefully or else it'll eventually melt the figure completely away. I will eventually have to do this with my Crescent Hawk Phoenix Hawk LAM but I'd prefer to try your stuff first.. However, fortunately for me I only assembled the Robotech Defender models...I never actually painted them. I was basically just getting started in model making at that point and it took joining a model making club in college to start getting serious about it and learning real techniques.

[Sereglach]

James Argent, on 20 May 2018 - 01:04 PM, said:

Depends on the paints used, but for enamels on metal miniatures (which I never used on Citadel minis) good success is found with brake fluid, but you have to watch it very carefully or else it'll eventually melt the figure completely away. I will eventually have to do this with my Crescent Hawk Phoenix Hawk LAM but I'd prefer to try your stuff first.. However, fortunately for me I only assembled the Robotech Defender models...I never actually painted them. I was basically just getting started in model making at that point and it took joining a model making club in college to start getting serious about it and learning real techniques.

Depending on where you live I use Purple Power, sold at Wal-Mart and other places. It's a strong and safe degreaser, typically stored with the shop cleaners in the hardware/tool section or back with the automotive cleaners. You can leave your minis in a mason jar with the stuff indefinitely; and it will soften up and remove any standard paints as well as superglue bonds, given enough time. I buy big gallon jugs of the stuff just for that purpose.

You can even give the jar a little shake/swirl every couple of hours (obviously you don't want to do it hard enough to bend any metal bits) and watch as the paint begins to slough off. Typcially a 24 hour soak is more than adequate. Then just pull the minis out and do a toothbrush scrub and rinse . . . redunking as necessary.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

More on topic, I do understand why some people want to open their wallets to PGI to "support the lawsuit". For me, however, the IP has more than enough backing to support the lawsuit via PGI and MS. They've already said they've saved a warchest for this AND Russ himself stated they have full support from the IP owners. Therefore, to me, it's a matter of spending money on the product . . . period; and PGI has some work to do before I'd consider supporting the product again.

Even a purchase of MW5 is going to depend heavily upon just how mod-friendly it is (because if the game's mechanics and balance are like MWO right now, and not moddable, then I don't want that). If PGI doesn't deliver on those promises, then the IP can go back to MS for MechWarrior games and HBS can continue to make excellent strategy games that WILL be successful. I'm sure with the success of HBS Battletech they'd be able to pick up Alex and expand their studio a bit for the future.

Edited by Sereglach, 20 May 2018 - 02:08 PM.

[DFM]

Koniving, on 20 May 2018 - 12:53 PM, said:

It is a start, but they are so wildly different even within the same generation that its really hard to go off of. 0C looks like the 32nd century one... but is the "original", and then in a speed upgrade it, dropping 2 lasers and half a ton of armor makes it look like the Destroid...
There's so much horse to it.. Then later 7 generations of the mech later we have the modernized version which somehow shrinked it quite a bit (with no loss in weight), and then as an upgrade the 12th generation model triples its size (with no gain in weight)... The wild inconsistency is pretty hard to shake.

And that's not even pointing out that the 12R and 12C look to have entirely different skeletons and armor molds....yet look more like the original than the 7th gen model does. Really the "0C" looks like the evolution of the 12C and 12R and its next step.
*SNIP*
Thus its why I'm hoping to find something more consistent. There's good fan arts to be found but I haven't really got a favorite yet.

The Longbow really suffered from poor art direction in its rehashes, back-edits, etc.

Sadly, there is quite a bit of time where mech art just makes no sense and is just downright bad.

[Chados]

Will9761, on 20 May 2018 - 12:22 PM, said:

I have to be honest here, but anyone here who hopes that PGI should lose to HG are nothing more than a bunch of idiots who should have left a long time ago. I understand that sometimes PGI does things that are head scratchers and eyebrow raisers. Heck, even I have been aggravated with PGI for how they have handled MWO sometimes, but they have redeemed themselves in some cases. Sure, I get that as dissapointed as we are with PGI, we just want them to do better. But if it bothers people to a point to where they want to say, "YAY HG WON! SCREW YOU PGI! THAT'LL TEACH YOU A LESSON FOR WHAT YOU DID TO THE IP!" or "PGI deserves to lose for what they did to MWO." than they just take the high road and leave entirely if that's how they feel about it. Because people like those don't deserve any type of respect and shouldn't be referred to as a Battletech or Mechwarrior fan. Because what they don't understand is that not only does it hurt PGI but HBS as well, and on top of that, there is no one else who would bother with the BT/MW license. But people, who want to keep the hate alive by sporting moronic PGI forum signatures and do lowdown stuff like criticizing charity events or the like, are just like Macbeth's quote: "It is nothing more than a tale told by idiots full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

TL:DR Version:
Despite the mishaps of PGI, we are upset because we care and want them to do better. In this regard, at least PGI is actually trying. I don't mind criticism at all, but when people get to a point where they become toxic even hoping for PGI to lose against HG because of past grudges, they should uninstall MWO and leave the forums entirely.

I don’t think that even PGI’s biggest detractors want to see HG win. Now, there is a high chance HG will win in summary but that isn’t because they have the better case overall. Summary judgment is hostile to the movant. It’s taken in the light most favorable to the non-moving party, so HG as the non-moving party comes in with a *presumption* that they’re right. The reason for that is because the common law doesn’t like judgments that totally deprive a litigant of his or her day in court. So HG’s position essentially has to be borderline frivolous to lose at *this stage.* It could happen, anything is possible, but serious legal scholars are going to bet on HG in summary judgment because of how the system works.

I’d be surprised if HG doesn’t try for summary judgment itself, especially if it gets the judge to go along with the request for the letters rogatory. But if HG gets what it wants that isn’t the end of that story. It’ll be on the Japanese courts then, to make Big West cough up the documents, and they don’t have to play ball, and they might not. I have done international extraditions where one word in a fifty page request frustrated the whole process and I had to resubmit the whole packet from scratch. In fact, it took me eight years, in one case, to get a guy out of one country...a fairly close U.S. ally, frankly....who’d committed a major crime here. The Japanese are sticklers about protocol, I understand. It won’t surprise me one bit to see HG have to resubmit the request as much as three or four times, which will slow things down to the speed of molasses in the wintertime.

But trial, when they get there, is a whole new ball game. I still think there’s going to be some sort of quiet settlement that makes this all go away at some point, and we may never know the details thereof.

Edited by Chados, 20 May 2018 - 04:24 PM.