65 replies to this topic

[LordNothing]

things will be different now that every side has the same crutch weapons.

[Jingseng]

eh? in the Pac Rim time zone, IS is facerolling. Like seriously. Hard enough for players on the IS side to tell their own trash talkers to calm down.

I wouldn't say all the IS new tech is side grade. Like, I think calling the Ultra AC/10/20 a side grade is a bit cheek. LFE + Light Ferro has enabled a fair number of builds to mount extra ammo, dhs, or even up-tier a weapon (eg: srm 4s -> srm 6s). HPPC and family are pretty good too for tailoring a mech for your intended playstyle/situational use.

I figure larger portions of the playerbase would be moving to IS side for the short term... just because there is more newtech to play with there. I mean, really, who is like OH YES CLANS GOT ER MICRO LASER I AM JUMPING OVER. Heavy lasers are nice, but clans already had lightsaberlasers for a while, so nothing especially new there.

And more players would mean more of everything. The good, the bad, the potatugly.

And yes, because there is more newtech on the IS side, and the impulse is to add more new tech (and that's generally not because it is a 'side' grade =p ) the better-new builds will cost more. You aren't flipping engines or armor types on the clan side, and replacing fewer weapons to boot.

When the overall player numbers are lower/not-NA... IS is heavily favored at the moment.

[AssaultPig]

Bad IS mechs seem to see a lot more play than bad clan mechs; even in straight pubs clan teams are usually full of timberwolf/hellbringer/MADIIC/kodiak, and while you see plenty of good IS mechs I also find myself shooting at lots of shadowhawks, awesomes, atlases, etc.

this might just be because there's more IS mechs (and therefore more bad ones) to pick from, I dunno

Edited by AssaultPig, 24 July 2017 - 05:40 PM.

[SeventhSL]

DGTLDaemon, on 24 July 2017 - 02:58 AM, said:

Based on my observations from the current event:



Tech balance has nothing to do with it

During the last battle of Tukayyid I'd absolutely agree with this. Not sure what got into the Clan PUGs but wow. Now? Yer I don't see it. Some games, sure but others defiantly not.

An average Clan PUG is better than your average IS pug but that is more due to the tech base. Not saying Clan tech OP or anything. Just saying that it is more user friendly on beginners. Locked engines and no need to manage slots as a resource, means it is harder to make trash builds with. Bigger damage and longer range weapons are better for timid, disorganised, pokey play. Greater average speed helps when they get caught out of position. Surviving side torso loss helps a lot more vs other PUGs because they can't shoot straight and tend to spread damage everywhere.

[Mestari]

I find it hilarious people are still crying clams op when if you've been watching the warlog most of this event it's been IS victories. Hell I dropped FW with various people on Strana Mechty for 8 hours today and didn't lose a single match, yet IS have been leading all day.

If you think the other side is OP right now it's because you're the spud.

[Vellron2005]

El Bandito, on 24 July 2017 - 05:10 PM, said:

Also Clan pugs were just as cowardly and self serving as IS pugs in Tuk3, but on the Clan side they had longer range for the cowardly poke game.

Well I'm just talking from personal experience.. This was not a single game, not even just a few games.. it was most games I dropped with IS pugs.. When they don't know how to open a siege door, and you loose 48:13, and then you QQ out and go play the clan side minutes later, and you get drop-commanded pugs that work as a team, call targets and go for objectives.. it's hard not to call them superior over IS pugs..

I acknowledge everyone's experience may have been different, but mine was such.

Playing with IS pugs was such a pain I almost broke my keyboard.. Had to go to Comstar's TS to find a group.. since I played all day, sometimes I played at hours where the TS channels were empty, and I had to go pug it again, and those times I was pulling out the little hair I have left (shaved head lol)..

When I played those odd hours when my own unit guys were sleeping, I would join up with Clan Pugs and played well, won some, lost some, but it was better quality games..

And Its not because of clan tech superiority.. I died just as often as I did with IS mechs.. and did similar damage and kills.. I'm talking about the tactics and simple knowledge of the game (and lack thereof), and the pug's ability to follow orders, organize, and not yolo.. If you call shots and formulate a plan over voip, and more than half your team ignores you completely, how are they not inferior?

I'm talking about simple concepts like which gate to push, grouping up before pushing a gate (instead of trickling in), simple plans like going from one grid to another, or taking out gens instead of mechs, opening both gates instead of just one, or even simple target calling..

When I played with clans pugs, most of them instinctively knew what to do and how to do it, and many would ask for a plan, or a drop commander to take command..

So you tell me what conclusion one should make?

[Buster Machine 0]

IS mechs are cheaper, so it's cheaper to assemble IS cw decks.

New pugs make the their first drop deck that happens to be IS.

First time CW Pugs get thrown into a Clanner meat grinder of more experienced pugs.

[The6thMessenger]

Pugs will be pugs.

****, I'm Clan yet i see bad FW teammates. Worst part is that IS keeps bringing LRMs, and my team is too damn afraid of them so even LRMs being bad weapon as they are, somehow they ******* win.

Clan advantage would be there, but potatoes will always find ways to somehow **** up despite said advantage.

Edited by The6thMessenger, 25 July 2017 - 12:01 AM.

[Lupis Volk]

I think the issue with IS players is a decent portion of them simply refuse to better themselves.

[Templar Dane]

Lupis Volk, on 25 July 2017 - 12:06 AM, said:

I think the issue with IS players is a decent portion of them simply refuse to better themselves.

Saturday a friend and I were dropping in FP. One of the LRM potatoes was camping our dropzone, out of LRM range. We lost and the entire time he was whining about clan being OP. People told him to switch weapons, he said no.

Two more matches with the dude, he's doing the same exact thing. Camping dropzone in an LRM stalker all match complaining about clan being OP.

[El Bandito]

Vellron2005, on 24 July 2017 - 11:44 PM, said:

When I played with clans pugs, most of them instinctively knew what to do and how to do it, and many would ask for a plan, or a drop commander to take command..

So you tell me what conclusion one should make?

Instinctively? That sounds as weird as OP. Pugs are pugs. You either win at the lottery or you dont. We shall see on the next big CW event once players managed to deck out in new tech, just how much did IS managed to gain, and how should the tonnage be distributed.

To tell you the truth I consider comp play as better indication of cross faction balance than CW. If approximately even number of mechs from boyh sides are used in comp play, I consider both factions as balanced. And if top IS mechs manage to compete with top Clan mech, without having any quirks, I consider both faction's tech as balanced.

Edited by El Bandito, 25 July 2017 - 01:48 AM.

[Templar Dane]

El Bandito, on 25 July 2017 - 01:38 AM, said:

Instinctively? That sounds as weird as OP. Pugs are pugs. You either win at the lottery or you dont. We shall see on the next big CW event once players managed to deck out in new tech, just how much did IS managed to gain, and how should the tonnage be distributed.

Still won't prove anything since the bigger units decide the outcome by which side they join. They may join one side or the other because of a population imbalance or any number of other reasons that have nothing to do with how good the mechs/weapons are.

[El Bandito]

Templar Dane, on 25 July 2017 - 01:43 AM, said:

Still won't prove anything since the bigger units decide the outcome by which side they join. They may join one side or the other because of a population imbalance or any number of other reasons that have nothing to do with how good the mechs/weapons are.

Read the second part of my edited post.

[TWIAFU]

Lupis Volk, on 25 July 2017 - 12:06 AM, said:

I think the issue with IS players is a decent portion of them simply refuse to better themselves.

That because they play peek a boo in CW.

That QP "meta tactic" fails in QP and fails worse in CW.

Pugs of both sides take QP mentality to CW and they get clubbed because of it.

[Vellron2005]

Well.. I have to say, something must have changed, cose' right now, the clans are having their rear torsos handed to them in FP..

I have not won a match in a few days.. and not for a lack of trying.. We've had some close matches, but the IS always seems to win out in the end.. in spite of me and my teammates doing over 2K damage and getting 4+ kills and KMDDs on them..

The counter is all the way IS.. so.. I guess things have indeed changed..

Edited by Vellron2005, 26 July 2017 - 12:26 AM.

[DGTLDaemon]

Vellron2005, on 26 July 2017 - 12:25 AM, said:

Well.. I have to say, something must have changed, cose' right now, the clans are having their rear torsos handed to them in FP..

I have not won a match in a few days.. and not for a lack of trying.. We've had some close matches, but the IS always seems to win out in the end.. in spite of me and my teammates doing over 2K damage and getting 4+ kills and KMDDs on them..

The counter is all the way IS.. so.. I guess things have indeed changed..

New tech + tonnage crutch are obviously doing their job. I wonder how PGI will react to this, 'cause right now I'm not sure whether they are interested in true faction balance, or whether they just want to ensure that IS finally starts winning.

[meteorol]

Vellron2005, on 26 July 2017 - 12:25 AM, said:

The counter is all the way IS.. so.. I guess things have indeed changed..

A 5% difference in w/l ratio makes the bar move to 100% quickly, as previous events have shown.
Today, this community generally gives so few f*cks about CW that the few units that actually care about CW can make a considerable amount of difference. Especially on an event with rewards not really worth going for.

That aside, IS got plenty of new tech, which people want to test.

All in all though... IS puggles have been the elephant in the room for the vast majority of CWs existence. The current situation is caused by units being IS and IS new tech attracting players, which is a temporary effect. After it disappers, you will see IS puggles pugging like the usual IS puggles again.

After pugging on IS side for a good 100-200hours in the past, i chose to not take an IS contract again, solely due to the terribadness of IS puggles.




Stuff like this has been daily basis at times when IS puggles had all the tech advantage one could ask for. Stalkers with 20/20/20/20 quirks to range/cooldown/heat/burntime. And they still managed to get rekt and cry about OP clantech time and time again. It was exhausting.

[Vellron2005]

DGTLDaemon, on 26 July 2017 - 12:42 AM, said:

New tech + tonnage crutch are obviously doing their job. I wonder how PGI will react to this, 'cause right now I'm not sure whether they are interested in true faction balance, or whether they just want to ensure that IS finally starts winning.

Well, to be honest, I kinda don't mind the IS winning right now, cose' if they surround Clan Smoke Jaguar Homeworld, that will initiate Operation Bulldog

But don't you freebirth dare touch Strana Mechty

[Oberost]

DGTLDaemon, on 26 July 2017 - 12:42 AM, said:

New tech + tonnage crutch are obviously doing their job. I wonder how PGI will react to this, 'cause right now I'm not sure whether they are interested in true faction balance, or whether they just want to ensure that IS finally starts winning.

So when Clan wins is skill and when IS wins is tech?

[DGTLDaemon]

Oberost, on 26 July 2017 - 04:57 AM, said:

So when Clan wins is skill and when IS wins is tech?

Honestly, we won't know until PGI 1) properly balances both techbases using stats from comp play and maybe the top couple of tiers in QP (ignoring FP stats and group queue stats, as those are too heavily influenced by lack of matchmaking and lopsided team composition), and then 2) gives the Clans and the IS equal tonnage, and lets them duke it out on equal terms. But something tells me this will never happen, because PGI have adopted this stupid concept of "balancing by population", although this type of balancing goes against the very logic of PvP (or any kind of competition, for that matter).