67 replies to this topic

[SparkSovereign]

I'm not sure I would consider the Grey Knights "standard issue"; there's what, 600 of them total? (And judging by tournaments, all of them are either named Kaldor Draigo or are Paladins.) They are, however, totally badass. What with being basically chaos sorcerors. For the Emperor. ...or something. Half their new fluff is a godsend over the abomination that was the old book, and the other half is an abomination against everything, including themselves. (I refer to the incident with the Sisters of Battle. Weren't the Grey Knights ALREADY immune to corruption due to their own incorruptible pure pureness, anyway?)

Emperor protect us from fluff wedgies.

[CCC Dober]

Iron Man and nano suits don't seem like standard either, if you think about their capabilities. Terminator armor has been around since the time of the Horus Heresy, long before the current 41st millenium. The modern MK7 is quite good, but it can't compete with Aegis Power Armor or plain Terminator Armor, much less Aegis Terminator Armor. I just felt that if some of the best armor is to face off against each other, might as well take the good stuff that 40k has on offer

[Zakatak]

Changed Iron Man to Mark 4 (Earth 616 or 199999, your choice).
Added Marauder armor from Starship Troopers into the mix.
Starcraft armor changed to CMC-400 for balance.

If I added the T-51B or T-45D, they would get stomped because they just simply aren't any good. They can be penetrated by 7.62mm rounds with ease, have no shielding, and reduce agility as well as hinder your eyesight. MAYBE the Enclave Tesla armor might have a chance. Maybe.

Edited by Zakatak, 23 July 2012 - 04:36 PM.

[Moiety]

The Marauder suit from Starship Troopers. Squad leaders carried tactical nukes.

[Zakatak]

Who would set off a nuke in a small engagement that would cause you to vaporise as well?

[Stripes]

First place: original Clan Elemental Basttle Armor. Why you ask? It has Small Laser. Weapon almost useless in 'mech scale combat, but... machine Gun deals 2 damage in round. SL deals 3 - lets assume with one pulse... But, there is one minor fact - almost any standart machine gun is actually 20mm Gatling Gun. 20 (!) mm (!!!). By modern days, its on lower side of autocannons.

And dont get me started on more recent incarnations of Elemental - such as Corona (Medium Puls Laser) or Golem.

Titan just rolf-stomp any 'mech - but Space Marine, who carrys almost steampunk suit, versus Clan Battle Armor...

[Strum Wealh]

Zakatak, on 23 July 2012 - 04:30 PM, said:

Changed Iron Man to Mark 4 (Earth 616 or 199999, your choice).
Added Marauder armor from Starship Troopers into the mix.
Starcraft armor changed to CMC-400 for balance.

If I added the T-51B or T-45D, they would get stomped because they just simply aren't any good. They can be penetrated by 7.62mm rounds with ease, have no shielding, and reduce agility as well as hinder your eyesight. MAYBE the Enclave Tesla armor might have a chance. Maybe.

• The Elemental Battle Armor has remained pretty much unchanged since its introduction.
  
• The Mk. VII Aquila is the latest common version of the Space Marines' armor (the Mk. VIII is exceedingly rare, and the Mk. VI is technically obsolete).
  
• The Mjolnir Mk. VI is the latest common(-ish) version of the Spartan-IIs' armor (the Mk. VII is exceedingly rare, and Mk. I through V are technically obsolete).
  
• The Varia Suit is actually one of several versions/upgrades to the standard/default Power Suit, which in turn was designed and built specifically for Samus Aran (whose own body had been infused with both Chozo DNA and, later, Metroid DNA) and is both partially-biological/techno-organic and symbiotically bonded to Samus (making it more similar to the likewise symbiotic and techno-organic Guyver or Tekkaman Blade armors, than to more-conventional armored suits).

All of the above are designed for and worn by soldiers that are far from average (Elementals are specifically engineered, bred, and trained to be gigantic close-combat fighters; Space Marines have various extra engineered organs implanted into their bodies; Spartan-IIs are surgically augmented (where relatively few of the candidates survive the prodedure), effectively making them bionics/cyborgs), generally to the point where normal humans can't use them effectively (if at all).

• The CryNet Nanosuit 2 is the latest-and-greatest version of the nanosuit, and the CMC-400 is the latest non-firebat/marauder version of the Confederate Marine Corps' powered combat suits.
  
• For the United Citizen Federation's "Marauder" armor (one of the three basic types of power armor mentioned in the Starship Troopers novel, and generally considered the default), are we using the specs from the movie version of the Marauder for reference?

However, these suits (unlike the previous four) seem to be designed for use by the more-or-less "average" soldier.

-----

On these grounds, I would request that the Iron Man entry be allowed:

1.) Earth-616's Model 37 (aka "Bleeding Edge armor") suit and/or Earth-616's Model 30 (aka "Extremis armor") suit (an Earth-199999 version of which may feature in the upcoming Iron Man 3) to match the Elemental/Space-Marine/Spartan-II/Varia "enhanced-soldier/super-soldier armor" set, or

2.) Earth-616's Model 29 suit (the last pre-Extremis model) and/or Earth-199999's Mk. VII suit (the one featured in 2012 Avengers film) to match the CMC/UCF "common soldier armor" set.
(Though, the Earth-616 War Machine armor and/or the Earth-199999 War Machine armor (featured in Iron Man 2) may fit the "common soldier" category better than Iron Man himself...?)

Your thoughts?

Edited by Strum Wealh, 24 July 2012 - 03:37 PM.

[Dustein]

Excellent Points Strum Wealh,
I still think in any 1v1 the Metroid series Power Suit Variant would be the winner. But yes it is "unique" this probably the suit itself is "super rare" and not fitting the rules for this competition.

Edited by Dustein, 29 July 2012 - 08:47 PM.

[Dustein]

Zakatak, on 24 July 2012 - 08:06 AM, said:

Who would set off a nuke in a small engagement that would cause you to vaporise as well?

The Varia suit's "nuke" is referred to as a "power bomb". The suit "emits" the explosion OUTWARD leaving the suit (and it's occupant) untouched.
So to answer your question :Samas Aran would (but it would vaporise everything in vicinity except her. err including allys and yeah she has done this before.. oops but her her side won the battle)

Vulpesveritas, on 23 July 2012 - 05:48 AM, said:

had to vote the nanosuit for the fact that so long as you keep from outright dying, it will continually heal the user and repair itself, can protect from a man-portable gauss rifle round...
last place, varia suit... why do you have to keep reattaching every part in a mission again?

Why? The Varia Suit does everything you stated above that the Nanosuit can do, BETTER and more. Plus I am taking "cannon suit averages" into account not "personal game play fun"

Edited by Dustein, 29 July 2012 - 08:49 PM.

[Vulpesveritas]

Dustein, on 29 July 2012 - 08:39 AM, said:

Why? The Varia Suit does everything stated above that the Nanosuit can do, BETTER and more. Plus I am taking "cannon suit averages" into account not "personal game play fun"

Does the Varia suit grow into the user's body and replace your living tissue with more of the martial of the armor whenever the user is injured, is able to restart the heart, or save the user's mind even after the death of the operator?

[Dustein]

Haha ok Vulpesveritas you might have goten me. Lets see..
The Varia Power Suit, is dependent on Samus being conscious to operate at full potential. (as the Suit is apart of her DNA the suit WILL heal/repair itself and her just like a wound would heal only much faster. So if you do not kill her outright she is coming back. Also in case of critical injury the Suit can be actively told to "just heal" for rapid repair. (Unfortunately this temporarily removes all offensive capability and requires Samas to be conscious - but less than 30 sec is pretty good to fix multiple broken bones, a punctured lung, various internal injuries/bleeding and a bruise, right?).

Restarting the heart or "saving the mind" are both things the Varia suit has done on occasion but I do not think can to be relied upon as a nominal function. SO in those two aspects (plus if user is unconscious) I concede the Nano suit might be superior.

~EDIT: Superior in those regards stated. Still not willing to concede to superiority overall~

Edited by Dustein, 29 July 2012 - 09:07 PM.

[Vulpesveritas]

Dustein, on 29 July 2012 - 09:03 PM, said:

Haha ok Vulpesveritas you might have goten me. Lets see..
The Varia Power Suit, is dependent on Samus being conscious to operate at full potential. (as the Suit is apart of her DNA the suit WILL heal/repair itself and her just like a wound would heal only much faster. So if you do not kill her outright she is coming back. Also in case of critical injury the Suit can be actively told to "just heal" for rapid repair. (Unfortunately this temporarily removes all offensive capability and requires Samas to be conscious - but less than 30 sec is pretty good to fix multiple broken bones, a punctured lung, various internal injuries/bleeding and a bruise, right?).

Restarting the heart or "saving the mind" are both things the Varia suit has done on occasion but I do not think can to be relied upon as a nominal function. SO in those two aspects (plus if user is unconscious) I concede the Nano suit might be superior.

~EDIT: Superior in those regards stated. Still not willing to concede to superiority overall~

And when the operator, the nanosuit is still functioning and it's AI will still attempt defensive actions. Can still filter oxygen out of water, stop most environmental threats, activate armor mode to stop a laser trying to cut through the suit, etc.

Although... when has the varia suit ever "saved the mind"? I don't remember that in Metroid... though it's been years since I've played one of the games.

Outside of that, keep in mind the Nanosuit 2 is technically a mass produced suit... or at least, the Nanosuit 1.5a/b and 2.0a/b is at the time of Crysis 2/3. Which shares most of the functions save for storing 15% less energy, and being less efficient at cloaking overall. (versions 1.5, version 2.0a/b are identical to the standard Nanosuit 2 in energy output and cloaking, but armor mode is 15% less effective) But the canon is a mass produced model... versus the individual Varia suit. Meaning that, in all honesty, they are in two different categorizations, at least in my opinion.

Oh, and the Nanosuit 2 actually evolves over time, and given the events of Crysis 2, should eventually completely replace the user's body with the nanobot compound, and would be hastened by damage.

Plus, as far as healing the user, it is about 30 seconds to do the exact same thing, so the rate of healing is the same... just that then the nanosuit replaces what gets damaged with something more... durable. And you can take an average out-of-the academy marine (i.e. Alcatraz, who was a regular force recon marine of only a few years of experience [less than three years, he signed up as a marine when he was 20], with no major conflicts, and only one truly dangerous mission prior to being put in the nanosuit. )
Not to mention, the other systems don't have to worry, it just is continually healing the user at that rate.

Edited by Vulpesveritas, 30 July 2012 - 01:10 PM.

[Strum Wealh]

Vulpesveritas, on 30 July 2012 - 10:15 AM, said:

And when the operator, the nanosuit is still functioning and it's AI will still attempt defensive actions. Can still filter oxygen out of water, stop most environmental threats, activate armor mode to stop a laser trying to cut through the suit, etc.

Although... when has the varia suit ever "saved the mind"? I don't remember that in Metroid... though it's been years since I've played one of the games.

Outside of that, keep in mind the Nanosuit 2 is technically a mass produced suit... or at least, the Nanosuit 1.5a/b and 2.0a/b is at the time of Crysis 2/3. Which shares most of the functions save for storing 15% less energy, and being less efficient at cloaking overall. (versions 1.5, version 2.0a/b are identical to the standard Nanosuit 2 in energy output and cloaking, but armor mode is 15% less effective) But the canon is a mass produced model... versus the individual Varia suit. Meaning that, in all honesty, they are in two different categorizations, at least in my opinion.

Oh, and the Nanosuit 2 actually evolves over time, and given the events of Crysis 2, should eventually completely replace the user's body with the nanobot compound, and would be hastened by damage.

Plus, as far as healing the user, it is about 30 seconds to do the exact same thing, so the rate of healing is the same... just that then the nanosuit replaces what gets damaged with something more... durable. And you can take an average out-of-the academy marine (i.e. Alcatraz, who was a regular force recon marine of only a few years of experience [less than three years, he signed up as a marine when he was 20], with no major conflicts, and only one truly dangerous mission prior to being put in the nanosuit. )
Not to mention, the other systems don't have to worry, it just is continually healing the user at that rate.

Actually, the Crysis Wiki article specifically states that the Nanosuit 2 "is the only armor which has not been mass produced or replicated".
So, the the Nanosuit 2 itself is (effectively, as of Crysis 2) a one-off model, albeit one that can be worn and used safely/effectively by a normal, un-enhanced/augmented human.

Also, on the Crynet Nanosuit 1.5a CELL and Crynet Nanosuit 1.5b USMC:
"A suit designed for CELL units, it is not known if it was fielded as only one is seen during Crysis 2 gameplay in the same room where Hargreave is, along with Nanosuit 1.0 Prototype, Nanosuit 1.0 field version, very similar to the nearby USMC version, as it supports full customization, consolidated suit modes, and it has Crynet CELL TACHUD v2.3 Operating System."
"A suit designed for USMC units, it is not known if it was fielded as only one is seen during Crysis 2 gameplay in the same room where Hargreave is, along with Nanosuit 1.0 Prototype, Nanosuit 1.0 field version, very similar to the nearby CELL version, as it supports full customization, consolidated suit modes, and it has Crynet USMC TACHUD v2.3 Operating System."

Also, the Crynet Nanosuit 2.0a CELL and Crynet Nanosuit 2.0b USMC (both of which are first-generation suits, as opposed to the second-generation Nanosuit 2) are both substantially weaker than that of the single-player protagonist.

Also, on that "saving the mind" feature:
"At some point, Prophet was infected with the Ceph's "Manhattan" virus. On August 23rd, he rescued a dying Alcatraz after a Ceph Gunship destroyed his reinforcement submarine and killed most of the marines on-board. He gave Alcatraz his suit before committing suicide so that the Nanosuit would adapt to Alcatraz, leaving behind a video inside the suit for Alcatraz.

Throughout Alcatraz's journey, he encounters many of Prophet's memories inside the suit, and the suit itself delivers messages from Prophet; these are possibly programs he instigated before his death.

After Alcatraz's heroics in halting the Ceph invasion of Manhattan, he encounters Prophet apparently inside the suit itself. Prophet hinted the suit had somehow 'preserved' his spirit." (source)
This makes it sound like it preserving elements of previous wearers' psychological templates was more of an unintended side-effect of the Nanosuit 2's design (more specifically, the design of the SECOND system unique to the Nanosuit 2) rather than a planned or standard feature common to all Nanosuits.

[D3AD1TE]

Marauder...
Come on it started powered armor suits! Not to mention it has a nuclear grenade launcher!

Edited by D3AD1TE, 31 July 2012 - 09:28 PM.

[Sinzin]

T-51b > all.

[Friend Fox]

Zakatak, on 23 July 2012 - 04:30 PM, said:

If I added the T-51B or T-45D, they would get stomped because they just simply aren't any good. They can be penetrated by 7.62mm rounds with ease, have no shielding, and reduce agility as well as hinder your eyesight. MAYBE the Enclave Tesla armor might have a chance. Maybe.

This really isn't true at all. Yes this is how they behave in the games, but in the actual lore they are walking tanks. Here is a snip from Falloutwiki.com Power Armor article:

- 2067: The first suit of T-45d power armor is deployed for combat duty among American infantrymen fighting the Chinese occupation of Alaska. While lacking the full mobility of future versions of the armor, this early suit of power armor is incredibly effective against conventional Chinese tanks and infantry. Its ability to allow a single infantryman to carry heavy ordinance becomes key in various localized conflicts during the Sino-American War, and it has the power to destroy entire towns without endangering the wearer from attacks by conventional firearms or even missile launchers. The Chinese People's Liberation Army rushes to create its own versions, but the Chinese are many years behind the United States' work on the project.

Note that this is the T-45 series, which is obsolete by the outbreak of the Great War. The T-51 series, which would be standard issue for the mechanized units, is superior, especially since it does not hinder the user's maneuverability at all. These units would most likely have largely, if not completely, replaced conventional tanks. Obviously for gameplay reasons they had to be majorly toned down.

Of course they still do not match up to the over the top WH40K stuff, or the more advanced BT battle armor. However, I believe T-51s would decimate Nanosuits and maybe even beat out MJOLNIR which is pretty damn impressive considering they will be developed in less than 65 years from now (in the alternate timeline of course) compared to the extreme futures that most armors in this list inhabit.

I just hate to see it unjustly belittled.

Edited by Highlander IIC, 01 August 2012 - 07:41 PM.

[Vulpesveritas]

Highlander IIC, on 01 August 2012 - 07:35 PM, said:

This really isn't true at all. Yes this is how they behave in the games, but in the actual lore they are walking tanks. Here is a snip from Falloutwiki.com Power Armor article:

- 2067: The first suit of T-45d power armor is deployed for combat duty among American infantrymen fighting the Chinese occupation of Alaska. While lacking the full mobility of future versions of the armor, this early suit of power armor is incredibly effective against conventional Chinese tanks and infantry. Its ability to allow a single infantryman to carry heavy ordinance becomes key in various localized conflicts during the Sino-American War, and it has the power to destroy entire towns without endangering the wearer from attacks by conventional firearms or even missile launchers. The Chinese People's Liberation Army rushes to create its own versions, but the Chinese are many years behind the United States' work on the project.

Note that this is the T-45 series, which is obsolete by the outbreak of the Great War. The T-51 series, which would be standard issue for the mechanized units, is superior, especially since it does not hinder the user's maneuverability at all. These units would most likely have largely, if not completely, replaced conventional tanks. Obviously for gameplay reasons they had to be majorly toned down.

Of course they still do not match up to the over the top WH40K stuff, or the more advanced BT battle armor. However, I believe T-51s would decimate Nanosuits and maybe even beat out MJOLNIR which is pretty damn impressive considering they will be developed in less than 65 years from now (in the alternate timeline of course) compared to the extreme futures that most armors in this list inhabit.

I just hate to see it unjustly belittled.

Now, while it is armored heavily, there is the point that it has no stealth capabilities or healing capabilities (except for the medical prototypes never deployed.) unlike a Nanosuit. A nanosuit operator is going to largely be taking a stealth approach anyhow, and through usage of anti-tank munitions and cloaking, could readily destroy an enemy group of T-51 equipped soldiers. Furthermore given the healing capabilities of the nanosuit and that they are made to take the same weapon fire as a soldier wearing a T-51 would be wearing, you would largely see the nanosuit users using hit and run tactics to great effect.

[KuroNyra]

varia suit, the armor who an use any weapon's your ever dream and you can fly with it being invincible.

[Stripes]

In my honest opinion - IronMan and Metroid hold NO place in this disscusion. First one - comics in its finest for Kami sake. Second one? Its Asian - Armored Core or Macross anyone? In short - never let asians do any at least semi-serious sci-fi - they have same obsession with "uber-rays-of-doom" as most comics writers (DC or Marvel - mainstream ones).

CryNet Nanosuit itself - is piece of art. But, it have almost no place in future battlefield... And again but - imagyne what can be achived trough modding 'suit with rest of future tech?

[Elsydeon]

I gotta say Space Marines.

While Elementals are engineered monsters trained from childhood to break people in half for the Clan, Space Marines are picked from extraordinary individuals (you gotta do what would get your genes included in sibkos before they put gene-seed in you) then turned into zealous (which shows how limited the English language is, Space Marines make zealots look like heretics), heavily engineered (19 different implants, if you survive all the stuff they do to your body), have more experience (live for centuries in service to the Emperor vs get sent to a solahma-unit at 30), not to mention a much better health plan (get interred in a dreadnaught and pretty much become a protomech vs having kids if you fight well), and mutations, such as the Black Rage (Blood Angels start thinking they are Sanguinus, their Primarch, at the time of his death and get extremely enraged [again, showing the limits of the English language, only the Red Army during WWII got anywhere near this angry] and then pointed at the enemy).

Edit: Also every Space Marine is descended from the Emperor, not some dude who tagged along, but the man himself. Only the Kerensky bloodname can get that, but even then it is nowhere near as strong as a connection since the Primarchs are sons of the Emperor.

Edited by Elsydeon, 02 August 2012 - 12:39 PM.