74 replies to this topic

[QuantumButler]

The Lighthouse, on 03 August 2017 - 05:12 PM, said:

You can restrict yourself to mechs that do not rely on quirks.

No you can't, PGI just as often nerfs mechs with no or bad quirks into oblivion as they do their megaquriked bretheren.

[Coolant]

Mechanic changes, balances, nerfs, buffs, reworks, new stuff, bringing back old stuff - it all is part of the MMO landscape. Please list an MMO where characters/items/weapons/equipment doesn't get nerfed?

Just don't get attached to mechs, or weapon combos, "meta" or even playstyles. Adapt.

[Angel of Annihilation]

AlphaEtOmega, on 04 August 2017 - 06:09 AM, said:

A really sad state of a game would be if the developers are afraid of balancing because some players may dislike nerfs.

They could always refund me my money when the change something I bought specifically because it had certain characteristics that were changed or at least offer me a refund. Hell even Wargaming, a company I consider one of the greediest in the entire industry let me sell my Super Pershing back when they changed the front armor profile of that tank. Still haven't seen any option to refund my Heavy Metal, Dragon Slayer, Spirit Bear or several of the mech packs I pre-ordered (like the KDK pack) that got wacked so hard that they possess none of the characteristics for which I bought them for in the first place.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 04 August 2017 - 04:51 PM.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Coolant, on 04 August 2017 - 01:51 PM, said:

Mechanic changes, balances, nerfs, buffs, reworks, new stuff, bringing back old stuff - it all is part of the MMO landscape. Please list an MMO where characters/items/weapons/equipment doesn't get nerfed?

Just don't get attached to mechs, or weapon combos, "meta" or even playstyles. Adapt.

It is more about the frequency and scope of the nerfs that upset me in MWO. Sure when I am playing WoWS, I have seen some of my ships nerfed but you want to hear something crazy? The buffs many of my ships have received have been the more frequent occurrence. Also they have a pretty hardcore policy of doing their utmost to insure that "Cash Only" premium ships don't get nerfed however in MWO, Hero mechs sure the hell aren't immune to nerfs.

This is my problem. Lets say I buy that hero mech I really like. It is only available for cash so I am forking over real hard earned money for it and I am buying it because it possesses characteristics that make the mech worth forking over real hard earned money for. 6 months later PGI gets a wild hair in the wrong place or the community gets its panties in a twist and start whining about it and poof those characteristics are removed. Do I get any compensation for the change? Nope. Instead I am left with a mech that is no longer enjoyable to play and no longer worth the money I spent on it. I am already playing that game with three different mechs, the Heavy Metal, the Dragon Slayer and the Spirit Bear but it is ok that my money is now wasted money because you know...balance. What is worse is I am not sure any of these mechs deserved to be nerfed for balance reason. Take the Spirit Bear, it was nerfed because the KDK-3 was OP. Wow, what the frack does that have to do with anything, I mean it isn't like there isn't other mechs in this game that have variants with different movement profiles. The Supernova is a prime example, some variants have high acceleration values than others so keep the KDK-3 low but give the Spirit Bear back its agility. That is what I paid for after all.

That is my point. How can I trust that the mechs I buy for cash won't lose the characteristics for which I bought them at some point?

[JC Daxion]

Honestly.. in my almost 30 years of online gaming, I have never once had my game play diminished due to a nerf. I might not of liked some..or agreed with how the change was.. But never once did i say.. man this totally sucks..

Roll with it and adapt, typically it makes me think outside the box

Viktor Drake, on 04 August 2017 - 05:03 PM, said:

This is my problem. Lets say I buy that hero mech I really like. It is only available for cash so I am forking over real hard earned money for it and I am buying it because it possesses characteristics that make the mech worth forking over real hard earned money for. 6 months later PGI gets a wild hair in the wrong place or the community gets its panties in a twist and start whining about it and poof those characteristics are removed.

did you ever game in the days of paid subs? Everyone paid to play.. So everything was I paid money to play this game. They had nerfs then. I don't understand the whole idea, that i paid money, my item should never be changed period.

If you want to be like the top players, that chase meta, and take every advantage you are going to change mechs, styles, weapons to what ever is the top at that time.. If you are like the normal folks, you just play.. Besides Team work is what wins matches..

More often than not if no one says a single word in QP its a loss.. I don't care what mech i am in.

Edited by JC Daxion, 04 August 2017 - 05:37 PM.

[Valhallan]

Eh i too believed it was entirely dartboard balancing in the past, but since tuk3 i think it's just down to bad data and analysis (when 44vs 56 total wins was interpreted as a 6 % win difference ) . The casual hordes who copypaste metamechs end up bringing down the average performance of the metamech chassis', meanwhile the masochistic veteran nutters end up carrying the performance of the crappy bad chassis'. Remember that MRBC final aggregate which showed a vindicator doing great numbers? even if it was only for 1 match and he lost. Simply put i now think it's just that on a larger scale. As for a solve, well without a rating system to help adjust the data i don't think it's really possible.

[Mystere]

The Lighthouse, on 03 August 2017 - 05:12 PM, said:

You can restrict yourself to mechs that do not rely on quirks.

Then they get slapped with negative quirks.

FupDup, on 03 August 2017 - 05:33 PM, said:

PGI can always just nerf the base agility if there are no quirks left.

No one is safe from the Nerfinator™.

[Mystere]

JagdpantherX, on 04 August 2017 - 09:12 AM, said:

I dont get why people think what they use should be immune to nerfs. If its for the good of the game don't let it bother you, balance changes need to happen for a reason.


Now if only PGI could be logical with it more often...

Ahem! You just answered your own question.

[FireStoat]

I think it's pretty disheartening to pay real money for a hero mech only to have it nerfed well below the majority of its peers in the same tonnage bracket performance that are available for Cbills. No, I do not think that Hero mechs should be pay to win. I'm just saying that opening your wallet to purchase something that becomes absolutely worse than almost all of the similar options offered for free stings.

It IS a really great motivator to simply play the game and cease making purchases however.

[Angel of Annihilation]

JC Daxion, on 04 August 2017 - 05:28 PM, said:

Honestly.. in my almost 30 years of online gaming, I have never once had my game play diminished due to a nerf. I might not of liked some..or agreed with how the change was.. But never once did i say.. man this totally sucks..

Roll with it and adapt, typically it makes me think outside the box






did you ever game in the days of paid subs? Everyone paid to play.. So everything was I paid money to play this game. They had nerfs then. I don't understand the whole idea, that i paid money, my item should never be changed period.

If you want to be like the top players, that chase meta, and take every advantage you are going to change mechs, styles, weapons to what ever is the top at that time.. If you are like the normal folks, you just play.. Besides Team work is what wins matches..

More often than not if no one says a single word in QP its a loss.. I don't care what mech i am in.

There is one huge difference between a sub game and free-to-play and that is the free-to-play part. Free-to-play games are asking you to voluntarily give them money and you should be getting the product you paid for. But that isn't even the real issue. The issue is the constant cycle of nerfs and not just small adjustments here and there but massive nerfs that completely change how a given mech plays. I mean the Kodiak went from an quick and relatively agile heavy assault mech to moving like a brick through molasses and the only chassis that was OP was the KDK-3. That is the stuff I am talking about.

I just want to know that after its initial adjustment, that the mech I am buying isn't going to be dramatically altered. Sure when it first releases we know it likely isn't going to be perfectly balanced but it should only undergo one, maybe two alternations within maybe a month of release to bring its performance into line then be left the hell alone. Instead I feel like I am back in closed beta with massive changes happening every other week rather in a game that has been release for what, 5 years now?

[MustrumRidcully]

Viktor Drake, on 04 August 2017 - 04:51 PM, said:

They could always refund me my money when the change something I bought specifically because it had certain characteristics that were changed or at least offer me a refund. Hell even Wargaming, a company I consider one of the greediest in the entire industry let me sell my Super Pershing back when they changed the front armor profile of that tank. Still haven't seen any option to refund my Heavy Metal, Dragon Slayer, Spirit Bear or several of the mech packs I pre-ordered (like the KDK pack) that got wacked so hard that they possess none of the characteristics for which I bought them for in the first place.

Are you also giving to return the times of enjoyment you had with a mech with desired mech abiliities before they made changes you disliked? And all the C-Bills and (G)XP and Loyality you might have earned playing the mech?

[Trenchbird]

Honestly, my biggest problem with the nerfs is the frequency, and the lack of necessity, of them.

Seriously, I run a mix of both Clan and IS Mechs, and I'd honestly say the heat nerf to the Clan ER Medium was unneeded. (And the SPL nerf was a *very* long time coming. It's not the worst thing in the world, but it still sucks.

And the nerfs to 100 ton mechs is pretty damning. The Atlas and King Crab were hit as hard as the Dire and Kodiak.

Hell, the Kodiak-3 is all I see when I see a Kodiak anymore, which kind of ends up defeating the purpose of all those nerfs against it a while back (When a simple Hardpoint reduction would have sufficed in the first place, IMO). I see the rare few SRM6+AC20 Spirit Bears, but that's about it. Dires seem to have been coming back, and the vast majority of Atlases I see nowadays are the K and D-DC variants. (Which... Begs the question, why is the K suddenly good?)

Edited by Catten Hart, 05 August 2017 - 07:27 PM.

[Brain Cancer]

Catten Hart, on 05 August 2017 - 07:27 PM, said:

Honestly, my biggest problem with the nerfs is the frequency, and the lack of necessity, of them.

Seriously, I run a mix of both Clan and IS Mechs, and I'd honestly say the heat nerf to the Clan ER Medium was unneeded. (And the SPL nerf was a *very* long time coming. It's not the worst thing in the world, but it still sucks.

And the nerfs to 100 ton mechs is pretty damning. The Atlas and King Crab were hit as hard as the Dire and Kodiak.

Hell, the Kodiak-3 is all I see when I see a Kodiak anymore, which kind of ends up defeating the purpose of all those nerfs against it a while back (When a simple Hardpoint reduction would have sufficed in the first place, IMO). I see the rare few SRM6+AC20 Spirit Bears, but that's about it. Dires seem to have been coming back, and the vast majority of Atlases I see nowadays are the K and D-DC variants. (Which... Begs the question, why is the K suddenly good?)

It actually can run UAC/20 + MRM-30 or 40 with a few CT lasers, and if you feel like derping, dual AMS for basically free match score. 20% missile cooldown on a single large MRM is a nice thing, and it gets the 10% ballistic cooldown for the UAC too.

[Vancer2]

Good luck with Russ in charge of PGI