132 replies to this topic

[MechWarrior5152251]

May be a problem with ballistics. I unloaded a UAC20 twice dead center on a stationary heavy mech at 50meters. No color changes. I no longer use UAC20s and things seem ok now.

[UnofficialOperator]

Lag and high mech speed are what causes the invulnerability. Its not as obvious on large mechs. Had a game with a 500 ping ASN, impossible to hit. His ping cycled from 250ms to 590ms and on screen, he was teleporting from spot to spot. No one could hit him either.

[Mcgral18]

Bigbacon, on 05 August 2017 - 04:33 PM, said:

Ok so you are telling me if you unload MRM60 at a cheetah 150-300m away you will miss? Same with everyting else? get real.

They have a 9M spread


A Cheetah is much smaller than 9M (especially a circular 9M)
If you miss with the other guns...yeah, you're barely doing anything to the Cheetah

[Brain Cancer]

Coolant, on 05 August 2017 - 12:57 PM, said:

Like I've been saying for a long time, lights have it waaaaay too easy in MWO. Just wasn't like that in MW4. Make them die easily like they should, but bring in unlimited respawn.

No. At that point, you have a continual stream of Suicide Specials. I will gleefully wade in with rocket launcher builds and just torpedo everything else, go splat, and do it again.

[Kiiyor]

Ted Wayz, on 05 August 2017 - 03:17 PM, said:

Change the reward system so lights get rewarded equally for tasks NOT involving damage and then you do not have to balance lights against all weight classes.

The thinking lights should score, in a damage centric scoring system, as well as all other weight classes is flawed and supported by flawed logic.

But still, no-one would play lights if they couldn't contribute damage. Mediums can scout. So can heavies - often better than lights. You can shower me with c-bills for caps and scouting bonuses, and it wouldn't make a non-combatant role any less boring.

Scoring revolves around damage, because for the most part, it's what wins matches. Even in more objective based modes like conquest, you're putting yourself at an enormous disadvantage if you go for caps before kills.

If you relegated lights to non-combat focused roles, would you play them?

[Mcgral18]

Kiiyor, on 05 August 2017 - 05:53 PM, said:

But still, no-one would play lights if they couldn't contribute damage. Mediums can scout. So can heavies - often better than lights. You can shower me with c-bills for caps and scouting bonuses, and it wouldn't make a non-combatant role any less boring.

Scoring revolves around damage, because for the most part, it's what wins matches. Even in more objective based modes like conquest, you're putting yourself at an enormous disadvantage if you go for caps before kills.

If you relegated lights to non-combat focused roles, would you play them?

It's also what makes the game fun


I'm here to play Shooty Stompy Robots

[MechWarrior5152251]

The irony the OP seems oblivious too is if Lights are so OP why do so few people play lights? They are cheaper to buy.

[Brain Cancer]

Lights are bad in the hands of a poor pilot generally because they violate the cardinal rules of lights.

Like not moving. Thus, potatoes tend to gravitate to the biggest, most heavily armored target they can pilot, since they can't maneuver worth a darn anyway.

[mike29tw]

Bigbacon, on 05 August 2017 - 04:33 PM, said:

Ok so you are telling me if you unload MRM60 at a cheetah 150-300m away you will miss? Same with everyting else? get real.

... Are you being intentionally obtuse?

Firing an MRM60 into a cheetah does not mean you automatically put 60 damage the pixel where your aim reticle is. Consider the following example: of all 60 damage, 20 will not hit the cheetah. Of the 40 damage that hit, 5 goes into LL, 5 goes into RL, 5 goes into LA, 5 goes into RA, 6 goes into RT, 6 goes into LT, and finally 8 goes into CT.

Result: Cheetah takes little damage in every component, laughs at your weapon choice and continues to alpha you with lasers.

[CancersCincar]

Kiiyor, on 05 August 2017 - 05:53 PM, said:

But still, no-one would play lights if they couldn't contribute damage. Mediums can scout. So can heavies - often better than lights. You can shower me with c-bills for caps and scouting bonuses, and it wouldn't make a non-combatant role any less boring.

Scoring revolves around damage, because for the most part, it's what wins matches. Even in more objective based modes like conquest, you're putting yourself at an enormous disadvantage if you go for caps before kills.

If you relegated lights to non-combat focused roles, would you play them?

I'd play light mechs, or mechs geared for scouting... if the game supported such a thing. Since MWO does not, there's no point to doing that. As you said, most objective modes are more kill-dependent than objective dependent.

[DaMuchi]

Lag shields are real.

[o0m9]

Bigbacon, on 05 August 2017 - 04:33 PM, said:

Ok so you are telling me if you unload MRM60 at a cheetah 150-300m away you will miss? Same with everyting else? get real.

Have you seen the spread on MRMs? You could whiff shots at a Cyclops with the larger racks.

[Zergling]

b33f's latest video is rather relevant:


(about why OP's opinion can be disregarded on anything)

Edited by Zergling, 05 August 2017 - 10:04 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Zergling, on 05 August 2017 - 09:56 PM, said:

b33f's latest video is rather relevant:


(about why OP's opinion can be disregarded on anything)

Oh wow...


It's him

[Fox With A Shotgun]

Zergling, on 05 August 2017 - 09:56 PM, said:

b33f's latest video is rather relevant:


(about why OP's opinion can be disregarded on anything)

/Thread.

Dunning-Kruger in full swing.

OP, if you think that Light Mechs are so OP, I would suggest playing as them for a couple of weeks. Then come back to us and tell us what you think. Light mechs do not - and cannot - tank discrete damage parcels like UACs, big-bore IS ACs, PPCs or SRMs. They can DODGE the projectiles, and this they do extremely well. Doubly so when most fatmech pilots decide to completely forgo lower arm actuators and rely entirely on high-mounted torso mounts, which are incredibly bad at fighting lights at knife fighting ranges.

There is so much muzzle flash, flare and particle effects around AC shots that it's very difficult to see if it's an actual hit or not without seeing the red reticle flash or going over a video recording in slow motion. Same goes for PPCs.

And you cannot tell me that firing a Medium Laser at a moving target - no matter how slowly it is moving - will result in all of the damage hitting the whole mech, let alone a single component. This is even more pronounced when you're shooting at a small light mech that is facing you at 750m with a Large Laser. Not only are you doing less than half damage with the LL at that range, you would literally be spreading damage all over the mech if it even moved a small amount, or whiffing completely.

SRM4, especially with Artemis, are rather good at blowing up Light Mechs. SRM6, WITHOUT Artemis, is about as effective as waving MLs all over the mech at little under its maximum range. You will get at most 1-3 missiles hitting the light at any range, thanks to the gigantic spread on those launchers. Same goes for MRMs of any size. Throw in the fact that the fatmech using the missiles probably has them on the vaunted high torso mounts, and you've got even more whiffing than normal.

I will not say that PGI's HSR is perfect. Far from it, as fast, small lights like Locusts can and will cause projectiles to not be accelerated if they are shuffling backwards and forwards, thanks to the HSR window being too narrow. But if I can nail other lights with PPCs in brawls maybe 7 out of 10 shotsat 250-270 ping, with the remaining 3 being my own misses, PGI's HSR algorithm is doing a fairly good job. You want to know how to deal with lights? Properly?

Use your arms.

No, really. Use your arms.

Lower arm actuators let you aim from side to side independent of your torsos, and they have an additional +180 deg/s traverse on top of the usual torso twist rate. Literally means you can correct your aim very, very fast.

Whether or not you will follow the advice of light mech pilots actually offering you advice on how to deal with us is another matter. But know this fact: the light mech pilots that have stuck around after a bazillion nerfs thanks to whining fatmech pilots are very, very good at what they do. And we do not have mercy for people who don't want to pick up their game.

[Kiiyor]

mike29tw, on 05 August 2017 - 08:38 PM, said:

... Are you being intentionally obtuse?

Firing an MRM60 into a cheetah does not mean you automatically put 60 damage the pixel where your aim reticle is. Consider the following example: of all 60 damage, 20 will not hit the cheetah. Of the 40 damage that hit, 5 goes into LL, 5 goes into RL, 5 goes into LA, 5 goes into RA, 6 goes into RT, 6 goes into LT, and finally 8 goes into CT.

Result: Cheetah takes little damage in every component, laughs at your weapon choice and continues to alpha you with lasers.

Excellent points. On top of that, add in convergence.

With most weapons (lasers excluded) players will need to lead a fast moving light to get hits on them. Unless your weapon hardpoints are right on top of each other, you're at best guaranteed hits on separate locations, but more likely than not a large portion of your firepower will annihilate the specific piece of dirt your weapons were set to converge at 400m in the distance, rather than the light eating you at 90m.

Not to mention the fact that you can often fit two lights shoulder to shoulder within the beaten zone of many spread weapons like SRM's, MRM's and LURMS.

Lasers are better, but more often than not the 'OMG IT SURVIVED A FULL ALPHA AT 90M' crowd will have dumped the majority of their laser tics into separate components and into the air a few pixels each side of their target. At 200 or 300m range, specific components on a light can be just a few pixels wide, and incredibly easy to miss.

IMHO, the netcode is actually pretty good (especially compared to pre-HSR days). Lights are just good at spreading damage from spread weapons.

PPFLD, however, was the reason I (mostly) gave up on my lights. You don't need to work nearly as hard in an assault or a heavy to do well, as they can survive a big pinpoint hit - whereas even a glancing blow from your typical (though now mostly extinct) dual gauss dual erpeep clan mech would take a light out of the fight.

Lights are borderline as it is. Here's hoping the tabletop lore balance crowd never get their way, or they will likely become extinct.

[The Unstoppable Puggernaut]

In regards to the OP, I've had some strange issues getting hit reg but it's very rare. Yesterday I poptart-streaked a Bushwacker (no arms), orange crit CT no armour front or back. This should have delivered 36 streak damage and it cleared the terrain well. I assumed I got the kill but... nothing. The mech just walked it off like a boss. It was HPG and there was nothing to hide behind and no other mechs in the way.

The lesson here is, it's not about rolling with the blows, it's about how you roll with them.

[The6thMessenger]

[redacted]

No, it's actually time for you to git-gud.

Do you even know how hard to pull off a goddamn urbie? -- Well it's not that hard if enemies aren't paying attention to you. That means, to actually beat an urbie, you just need to actually call it's bluff. Of course when you do get distracted by the urbie, it's heavier buddies will get you. So really it's a no-brainer.

No it's not a mini assault, though you can have an armor equivalent to mediums. Even if you're a light, you are not as fast as other mechs. A well placed shot or a steady hand, coupled with an idiot on the helm of the urbie, and or a competent enemy, the Urbie is in grave danger.

It's not the ballistic light you gotta worry about, it's those that have potent lasers like 3x ERML + LPL Urbanmech.

Mystere, on 05 August 2017 - 10:54 AM, said:

Shoot. The. Legs.

[redacted]

Edited by The6thMessenger, 06 August 2017 - 02:19 AM.
unconstructive

[H I A S]

Zergling, on 05 August 2017 - 09:56 PM, said:

b33f's latest video is rather relevant:


(about why OP's opinion can be disregarded on anything)

And then some Players defend the average skill in MWO as decent...

i mean, thats a match with T1 Players, so all should know at least the basics...



Its so horrible...

Edited by H I A S, 06 August 2017 - 01:31 AM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Dogstar, on 05 August 2017 - 12:23 PM, said:

I dumped a full burn 2xERLL+4xML alpha into the back CT of a stationary Raven at short range yesterday and it had zero effect.

Asym, on 05 August 2017 - 01:46 PM, said:

A stationary Raven at 350 meters taking 6 PPC hits without registering damage.

That's because you/they obviously didn't actually hit the Raven. I've had my Ravens melted in a single volley to my back often enough to know that if I get hit there, I am dead. The last time I recall, it was another Raven, with 3 ERLL. Killed me in one alpha.

Blame latency or blame your aiming, pick your poison.

Edited by Jay Leon Hart, 06 August 2017 - 02:10 AM.