105 replies to this topic

[Steve Pryde]

Zergling, on 07 August 2017 - 11:48 PM, said:

ECM really isn't that big of a deal.

VS lock on weapons it is.

[qS Sachiel]

ITT: Op wondering why everyone else doesn't spend their MC / $$ on standard mechs......

[Mechteric]

Good thing it's free to complain about stupid crap

[Lances107]

The cougar does have one ecm variant, and the omni pod does not carry over to the other variants, which I think is strange. The cougar can carry a serious amount of firepower, but lacks speed, and durability.

The Mrk II, if you guys are willing to have your Annihilator nerfed via survival, then come talk to me about the Mrk II. The way I see it the clan got a solid major destructive assault, and the IS got a super mega freaking tank. They nerf the Mrk II into the ground like the KDK 3, whats the point of buying any new clan assaults that come down the pipeline? As for the question of is it pay to win. Nope its not. You can deliver mega firepower, but in the end it comes down to pilot skill. Are you able to shield, poke, and move correctly as a pilot. If the answer is yes, then your going to bring big numbers with the Mrk II, if the answer is no, then I wouldn't expect big numbers. There is nothing the Mrk II gives you that negates bad player "life decisions". As one player stated you gain a edge but its not pay to win, it really does come down to team work, and your skill as a pilot.

[davoodoo]

Any advantage is pay2win.

Id skip mechs which will become available for cbills, but hero variants wont ever be available like that and theres quite a few which are more powerful than their standard counterparts.

[Zergling]

Steve Pryde, on 08 August 2017 - 02:29 AM, said:

VS lock on weapons it is.

There are easy ways to defeat lock-on weapons without ECM, which is why lock-on weapon are widely considered weak at higher skill levels.

Edited by Zergling, 08 August 2017 - 02:46 AM.

[Darky101]

FunkyT, on 08 August 2017 - 12:19 AM, said:

In the case of the Hero mech omnipods:

Aren't they releasing new standard variants with the same / very similar omnipods at the same time? I mean the countdown page for the Wave II heroes features the hero in question as well as a standard variant.
If I'm not mistaken, they did that because of P2W accusations like these, because some of these omnipods were really Pay to Optimize.

Wow that would be a nice move, can someone confirm that?

[Zergling]

Darky101, on 08 August 2017 - 02:59 AM, said:

Wow that would be a nice move, can someone confirm that?

Original news post discussing it and detailing the the Hero and cbill variant hardpoints.

[Khobai]

but some combinations are still pay2win like the 8 ballistic arctic cheetah

[Zergling]

Khobai, on 08 August 2017 - 03:05 AM, said:

but some combinations are still pay2win like the 8 ballistic arctic cheetah

Eh, I predict 6x HMG + a pair of lasers will be better than pure 8x HMG.


Like, 8x HMG would be severely constrained by ammo; with ECM it'd only have 3 tons of ammo, so just 420 damage in total (probs 504 damage with ammo skill nodes).
6x HMG + 3 tons of ammo is 6 tons, leaving 1 ton for ECM and 1 ton for a pair of Small Lasers. It'd have better range and staying power than a HMG build, but slightly less DPS.

8x HMG would be 11.20 DPS.
6x HMG + 2x Micro Pulse would be 10.98 DPS


For 8x regular or LMGs, it'd be 2 tons for the guns, allowing 5 tons of ammo + 1 ton for ECM, for 1000 damage in total for regular MGs, 875 damage for LMGs.
Changing that to 6x regular or LMGs would be 1.5 tons for the guns, 3.5 tons for ammo, 1 ton for ECM and 2 tons for a pair of Small Pulse Lasers.

8x MG would be 8.00 DPS
6x MG + 2x Small Pulse would be 8.92 DPS


The mech doesn't have to worry about the heat from a pair of Micro or Small Pulse either; that is well within the capabilities of its base heatsinks.

So yeah... going with pure MG builds probably isn't the best option, so I can see why PGI didn't see it as P2W.

Edited by Zergling, 08 August 2017 - 03:20 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Eh, I predict 6x HMG + a pair of lasers will be better than pure 8x HMG.

why would I use HMGs theyre garbage. the range is too short. and they weigh too much.

Id use 8 MGs/LMGs and 2 lasers probably. or 8 MGs/LMGs and 1 laser and ECM.

but its still pay2win


You can still do 6 MG and 3 lasers without buying the hero mech. but thats not as good as 8 MG and 2 lasers IMO.

I would not be surprised if PGI adds ghost heat to machine guns as a result of the 8 ballistic arctic cheetah

Edited by Khobai, 08 August 2017 - 03:23 AM.

[- World Eater -]

You know what you're getting into so stop bitching or don't play. Or go get a ******* job so you can buy one of those heroes.

Am I overreacting?

[Khobai]

Quote

You know what you're getting into so stop bitching or don't play. Or go get a ******* job so you can buy one of those heroes.

its not that I dont have money for games

its just that its not in the budget to spend money on *this* game

I stopped spending money on this game ages ago

[- World Eater -]

Khobai, on 08 August 2017 - 03:25 AM, said:

its not that I dont have money for games

its just that its not in the budget to spend money on *this* game

I stopped spending money on this game ages ago

Was yellin' at OP.

[Zergling]

Khobai, on 08 August 2017 - 03:09 AM, said:

why would I use HMGs theyre garbage. the range is too short. and they weigh too much.

Id use 8 MGs/LMGs and 2 lasers probably. or 8 MGs/LMGs and 1 laser and ECM.

but its still pay2win


You can still do 6 MG and 3 lasers without buying the hero mech. but thats not as good as 8 MG and 2 lasers IMO.

8x MG + 0.5 tons of ammo per MG = 6 tons
ECM = 1 ton
1x Small Pulse Laser = 1 ton

That is 9.46 DPS.


6x MG + 0.5 tons of ammo per MG = 4 tons
ECM = 1 ton
1x Medium Pulse = 2 tons
1x Small Pulse = 1 tons

That is 9.22 DPS

That is only 2.6% greater DPS, for the disadvantage of less range and increase reliance on ammunition consuming weapons. I find the claim of P2W to be a bit of a stretch.

[Darky101]

ThoseWhoFearTomorrow, on 08 August 2017 - 03:22 AM, said:

You know what you're getting into so stop bitching or don't play. Or go get a ******* job so you can buy one of those heroes.

Am I overreacting?

No M8, you cool.
Thankfully I I can afford them if I want to. Just expressing my thoughts.
We all know how some games are exremely pay to win and I would be very pissed to see this franchise go in that direction or get close to those levels. (thankfully we are very far from that)

Edited by Darky101, 08 August 2017 - 03:36 AM.

[Appogee]

I honestly can't believe so many people are condoning the idea of paid-for Mechs performing better than those available for CBills.

I suppose you'd also support paying for gold ammunition, that does more damage than regular ammunition? How about extra Strike slots for Hero Mechs? Why not double-strength armor, too? Hell, let's just decide that Mechs bought with MC have 30% more of everything - damage, engine speed, loadout space, heat cap, armor.

P2Win destroys F2P games. It provides a competitive advantage/crutch on what should be a level playing field. Those who can't pay are disadvantaged and leave. Those who do pay - and who need that crutch - should hang their heads in shame.

Incidentally, I own more than 30 Hero and Special Mechs. I bought them for the CBills. I do not want any battlefield advantage from them.

In fact, if PGI continues down this path of undermining their own game, I won't spend a single dollar more with them.

[Zergling]

Appogee, on 08 August 2017 - 03:51 AM, said:

I honestly can't believe so many people are condoning the idea of paid-for Mechs performing better than those available for CBills.

There is a rather large difference between disagreeing if something is P2W, and condoning P2W.

[Khobai]

Quote

That is only 2.6% greater DPS, for the disadvantage of less range and increase reliance on ammunition consuming weapons. I find the claim of P2W to be a bit of a stretch.

machine guns get a massive dps boost vs internal structure though which you didnt include

and youre not going to be playing a x8 machine gun arctic cheetah unless youre prioritizing targets with exposed internal structure because thats kindve the whole point of using machine guns. if youre shooting them at armored locations youre doing it wrong.

Youre underestimating how strong 8 machine guns fired into a mech's internal structure will be.

Edited by Khobai, 08 August 2017 - 04:10 AM.

[Zergling]

Khobai, on 08 August 2017 - 04:06 AM, said:

machine guns get a massive dps boost vs internal structure though which you didnt include

and youre not going to be playing a x8 machine gun arctic cheetah unless youre picking targets with exposed internal structure because thats kindve the whole point of using machine guns

And because that is such a niche ability it isn't actually that useful, so not P2W.

I'd rather run my ACH with a mixed MG/laser build, or stick to lasers only. I am not at all concerned about being unable to run 8B on my ACHs.

I doubt the high skill ACH players will be concerned about it either, as they are unlikely to change from the laser based builds they are currently using for a niche gimmick weapon like MGs.

Edited by Zergling, 08 August 2017 - 04:11 AM.