105 replies to this topic

[Khobai]

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And because that is such a niche ability it isn't actually that useful, so not P2W.

theres nothing niche about it. its quite common for mechs to be missing armor in the second half of a game.

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I doubt the high skill ACH players will be concerned about it either, as they are unlikely to change from the laser based builds they are currently using for a niche gimmick weapon like MGs.

but even so youre better off putting your lasers in the arms so you can get better use out of them while jumpjetting. so you want the sidetorso machine gun slots which still makes the hero P2W. its the only way to get those side torso machine gun slots.

Edited by Khobai, 08 August 2017 - 04:17 AM.

[Zergling]

Khobai, on 08 August 2017 - 04:13 AM, said:

theres nothing niche about it. its quite common for mechs to be missing armor in the second half of a game.

Why is why MG builds are just so powerful and are currently dominating MWO, riiiiiiight? /sarcasm

MGs just aren't a very powerful weapon, even when massed in numbers like 6, 7 or 8. They are too short ranged and require too much facetime.

I'll probably mess around with some MG builds on my ACH and MLX are the new cbill variants are released, but I expect I'll just go back to laser only builds on those mechs, but MGs simply aren't good weapons.

Edited by Zergling, 08 August 2017 - 04:16 AM.

[Khobai]

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Why is why MG builds are just so powerful and are currently dominating MWO, riiiiiiight? /sarcasm

the new variants arnt even out yet. how do you know they wont dominate? youre speculating.

I guarantee you the ACH hero side torso will be used even on more competitive laser builds. Because adding 2 MG is better than not having them at all.

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MGs just aren't a very powerful weapon

but even on laser builds, having 2 MGs in your side torso is still better than not having 2 MG which makes the ballistic side torso pay2win

its pay2win any way you look at it.

Edited by Khobai, 08 August 2017 - 04:24 AM.

[Zergling]

Khobai, on 08 August 2017 - 04:22 AM, said:

the new variants arnt out yet. how do you know they wont dominate? youre speculating.

It doesn't take a genius to work out that MGs aren't going to change from being handicapped by their short range and long face time requirement.

Just look at the Huginn with 2x SRM4 and 4x MG; that is 9.73 DPS without even considering the quirks it has, and that make doesn't dominate, or honestly even do all that good.

Khobai, on 08 August 2017 - 04:22 AM, said:

but even on laser builds, having 2 MGs in your side torso is still better than not having 2 MG which makes the ballistic side torso pay2win

Laser builds aren't going to have the tonnage available for a pair of MG. If they make sacrifices to fit that pair of MG, then it will be a weaker laser build, and a worse build overall.

Khobai, on 08 August 2017 - 04:22 AM, said:

its pay2win any way you look at it.

It doesn't look like P2W to me, because the ability gained from the 2B in the RT is negligible.

Edited by Zergling, 08 August 2017 - 04:36 AM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

I find MGs work far, far better with lasers than on their own.

Locusts, Spiders, Urbanmechs, Firestarters, Ravens, Kit Foxes, Cicadas, Blackjacks, Vipers, Shadow Cats and Novas. MGs compliment lasers (and to a lesser extent, missiles) rather well.

I will surely derp about for a match or 3 in my Shard with 8 LMGs, but I bought the 'mech for the camo. I'll use the ACH-E arms with MGs alongside 2-3 torso Medium class lasers for a half decent build.

[CK16]

Oh here we go again.....
1.Not really pay to win if standard varriants are available for C-bills after initial release
2. Reinforcements are not selected by PGI using some magic formula to put them in such pack....anyone who can read and/or count csn see they us alphabetical and numeric order.
3. Only Heros can be put in the catagory IF it does something no other mech can currently in game. (This also counts if over quirked, aka old Oxide days...those tanky little buggers....)

MWO and PGI are actuality pretty good about not having Pay to win in this game....The fact they are willing to nerf Heros and premium mechs is a very good thing! Say compared to Wargaming and thier products of World of Tanks and Warships, where they will hardly ever buff or nerf premium vehicles....Hell sometimes they just remove the vehicle from the store but do not touch it's stats for a long time....

[Doctor Dinosaur]

I surely can imagine 4 spl + 3 LMG to ruin back armor (16 dmg via laser) and wrecking structure in one go in a not pay2win mech. Should run nice and cool.

Best regards
Doc

[- World Eater -]

Darky101, on 08 August 2017 - 03:33 AM, said:

No M8, you cool.
Thankfully I I can afford them if I want to. Just expressing my thoughts.
We all know how some games are exremely pay to win and I would be very pissed to see this franchise go in that direction or get close to those levels. (thankfully we are very far from that)

Aw I feel bad now. Sorry dude I could've said it nicely the first time.

[Admiral-Dan]

DaMuchi, on 07 August 2017 - 11:33 PM, said:

It's much less pay to win then pay for an advantage and it's not even a very big advantage. I don't think it is unfair for people who fund the game to get a small advantage over free to play players.

That’s exactly the definition of Pay2Win. Paying players get an advantage.

I admit that these advantage is small, but nevertheless it’s problematic and it’s getting way worse in the recent time.

Edited by AlphaEtOmega, 08 August 2017 - 05:14 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Most of the examples I don't really agree with. ECM is rarely worth losing hardpoints or quirks. Pay for early access is not really P2W, but yeah the Purifier is the only example there that I really agree with.

[qS Sachiel]

Appogee, on 08 August 2017 - 03:51 AM, said:

I honestly can't believe so many people are condoning the idea of paid-for Mechs performing better than those available for CBills.

I suppose you'd also support paying for gold ammunition, that does more damage than regular ammunition? How about extra Strike slots for Hero Mechs? Why not double-strength armor, too? Hell, let's just decide that Mechs bought with MC have 30% more of everything - damage, engine speed, loadout space, heat cap, armor.

P2Win destroys F2P games. It provides a competitive advantage/crutch on what should be a level playing field. Those who can't pay are disadvantaged and leave. Those who do pay - and who need that crutch - should hang their heads in shame.

Incidentally, I own more than 30 Hero and Special Mechs. I bought them for the CBills. I do not want any battlefield advantage from them.

In fact, if PGI continues down this path of undermining their own game, I won't spend a single dollar more with them.

nope.
that's hyperbole.

[Luminis]

Yes, the Lights that rely on a build with high face time will surely dominate once they're out. Yep. Totally. Gonna be the next KDK-3, people. Your heard it here first.

... are y'all playing a different game, where Lights are supremely good or something?

[Lucian Nostra]

I think on the flip side one of the problems currently is that anytime a mech comes out in these packs it's cried about as P22 when it's just gonna be coming out later.

Also mechs that need the help like the shadow cat, somehow get called p2w because the hero offers and advantage. It's still a shadow cat though.. and anyone that was theory building with the heroes pods had to be let down the p2w cries hit pgi and pgi just nerfed it. Sorry shadow cat enthusiast, but your mech was gonna go from trash/meh to meh/acceptable

[Mole]

I swear there's a portion of the population out there just slavering at the mouth to apply the "P2W" tag on just about anything like the people who run this game shouldn't be allowed to make money.

Edited by Mole, 08 August 2017 - 06:25 AM.

[MechWarrior5152251]

Is there an 8 MG Arctic Cheetah? I was not aware of this, I want one!

And will actually pay real money for that pay to win!

[Appogee]

Zergling, on 08 August 2017 - 04:02 AM, said:

There is a rather large difference between disagreeing if something is P2W, and condoning P2W.

There is nothing open to interpretation here.

When a Hero Mech is released that contains hardpoints which make it more competitive than variants which aren't available for anything other than hard cash ... that is pay to win.

For example, some recent Heroes contain torso hard points that aren't available on non-Hero versions. Those paywalled torsi enable builds that are unquestionably more competitive, because high torso mounts enable more competitive peeking, and also, stripping of armor from arms for use with more heat sinks or equipment.

That is by definition P2W. The only way you can get those competitive advantages is by buying those torsi for cash.

Edited by Appogee, 08 August 2017 - 07:02 AM.

[FunkyT]

Mole, on 08 August 2017 - 06:25 AM, said:

I swear there's a portion of the population out there just slavering at the mouth to apply the "P2W" tag on just about anything like the people who run this game shouldn't be allowed to make money.

What, I need to buy mechs with C-Bills to equip and improve them?! P2W, worst game ever!
There is an option to spend money on this game and get mechs earlier, if I can't wait? Err mah gerrd, P2W!
Delivering batteries on incursion reveals the enemy on radar?! Pay (batteries) 2 Win, like what the hell?!

Totally not sarcasm or anything

[Appogee]

Gas Guzzler, on 08 August 2017 - 05:14 AM, said:

Pay for early access is not really P2W, but yeah the Purifier is the only example there that I really agree with.

But it's not just "pay for early access". It's "pay to have a competitive advantage right up til the Mech eventually comes out for CBills".

And did you happen to notice that the CBill release dates on the new chassis have been pushed out to nine months? So that's nine months of "early access" where those of us willing to spend cash get a competitive advantage over others less fortunate.

And in the case of Hero Mechs, some of those highly advantageous torsii will never be available for CBills. They are only available if you buy the Hero for cash

That's the kind of inequity that drives players away, and kills F2P games.

[Coolant]

P2W only refers to things that actually make you win...none of those you listed OP are guaranteed to make you win.

[ForceUser]

Not p2w.

It's extremely simple: Is there a mech in the same weight class and same faction that is better or the same than the alleged P2W mech and is that mech available for Cbills?

If the answer to that question is yes, then the mech is not P2W.

Exclusivity behind a paywall does not automatically mean P2W.

Exclusivity is important to help sell mech packs and Heroes and is fine so long as there are mechs available for Cbills that are as strong or stronger.

I also find some of the claims of the strength of some of these so called P2W mechs to be a joke.

PGI has never shied away from nerfing an over performing Hero mech(or any other mech for that matter). This much is a fact. Is there currently a Hero mech that is OP or Broken? Maybe the Death Strike, although I haven't been that impressed fighting against it, and we will see what changes are in store for it in the next patch since it's brand new. If it's over performing, it'll be nerfed.