279 replies to this topic

[Burke IV]

JediPanther, on 09 August 2017 - 08:39 AM, said:

That is 20 tons

Thats all the stuff you wish you had. IS has always had to choose between stuff like artemis or bap, even clans do to a lesser extent. I cant tell if your build is serious or not but here you go..

[Wil McCullough]

Roadbuster, on 09 August 2017 - 08:27 AM, said:

You say that LRMs require less skill to be effective than other weapons.
Because someone moves his mouse with the foot?


Sorry, but LRMs are not effective...no matter which body part you use to fire them.
And pressing a button requires the same skill, no matter which weapon you fire.

you know what, you are exactly right. no kappa. i think i misunderstood you.

foot or no foot, lurms are a terribly ineffective weapon.

[JediPanther]

Burke IV, on 09 August 2017 - 08:53 AM, said:

Thats all the stuff you wish you had. IS has always had to choose between stuff like artemis or bap, even clans do to a lesser extent. I cant tell if your build is serious or not but here you go..

Well it seems you can't use tcs with com console but still you need a lot of counter ecm gear that far outweighs ecm itself which has been a problem since the raven fist came into the game with it. Now that there are no forced mech variants the one with ecm is more than likely the one some one uses. Is and lrm-ers now get shafted hard with all those ecms running around and I'm not even going to list the eight other counters to lrms that I know of. still now you're far better off doing direct damage than use lrm. A lrm 5 and half ton ammo is all you need for the psychological effect on some one with that flashing lrm warning and audio cue.

[Wil McCullough]

C4NC3R, on 09 August 2017 - 08:31 AM, said:

I can aim with a stearing gear.

apparently not. or you wouldn't be averaging 0.68 kdr and a 0.45 wlr in season 13.

[Dead Tom Kerensky]

There are several skills that are vital to being decent at MWO. Positioning and working with your team are some of them and all weapon types benefit from this ability. Using your weapons properly whether it be not putting missiles into walls, managing heat, or being in the proper range is another.

Those skills above are fairly basic but what separates the ok pilots from the decent is the ability to twist damage well and deliberately, and to be able to disable a mech as quickly as possible. LRMS do not allow the use of these skills. You cannot target specific components to quickly kill or disable and because of the need to hold locks you cannot properly twist without compromising your offensive capabilities.

It is not difficult to point and click lasers on a mech or even figure out how much to lead for ballistics. Where the skill gap comes in is the ability to recognize where that damage needs to go specifically. You need to evaluate an opponent and determine if your heat should be placed into a specific component to reduce the capability of the opponent or if it is better to go for a kill. You need to know the common loadouts and where people place weapons to make sure what you are doing provides the maximum amount of inconvenience to the enemy for the least amount of time, heat, and exposure to return fire for yourself. LRMs takes all this out of the equation and replaces your ability to think and evaluate with RNG.

Edited by Dead Tom Kerensky, 09 August 2017 - 09:30 AM.

[STEF_]

Templar Dane, on 09 August 2017 - 07:46 AM, said:

TLDR of thread:

Statement made with video = LRMs are so easy to use you could use your feet to play the game and do pretty well

Then extremely salty potatoes, defending LRMs saying it takes elite skill and the video shows a "poor performance"

FtFY

[STEF_]

davoodoo, on 09 August 2017 - 08:05 AM, said:

hyperbole much??

0-700 delete this game
700-1000 ******* potato.
1000-1200 ok, ill you off this time.
1200-1500 you were lucky
1500-1800 nerf lrms.

most common reactions.

Apparently its so easy that you just need to point and click, thus you can do it with feet, would using hands improve performance dramatically??
if you answer no, then you just defeated your own argument
if you answer yes, then theres skill involved and whole discussion is moot.

Since you say LRM requires skills, you should inform noobs and potatoes they are choosing the wrong weapons to drop with....

[Mystere]

And just to be on topic, the "skills" involved here are [1] figuring out when it is a great time to bring out the LRMs and [2] reduce many players to tear-filled rage posts on the forums. If you see people wailing like toddlers in here, then I call that a job well done. <maniacal



[mod] Redacted some items [/mod]

Edited by United Airlines Security, 10 August 2017 - 05:27 AM.

[C4NC3R]

Wil McCullough, on 09 August 2017 - 09:01 AM, said:

apparently not. or you wouldn't be averaging 0.68 kdr and a 0.45 wlr in season 13.

I did not say I gonna succeed. But I can, aim with stearing gear)))
And there is still no proof of operating mek with only foot))))))))))

Edited by C4NC3R, 09 August 2017 - 10:04 AM.

[Thorqemada]

Lurm-Threads give more fun than the game very often

[Maker L106]

Why is it EVERY time I see this brought up no one mentions having teammates for any reason what so ever?

It's like some expect the LRMS to be the ONLY thing the mech is capable of carrying in any meaningful capacity or that its sole job is to throw artillery downrange. I won't lie, I'm not great at MWO, I'm mediocre at best, but when we have a team of guys in QP who have LRM's, boated or otherwise, and we communicate and run things like NARC's and TAG, and USE THEM, the team typically does decisively better than when they are not supported at all. You NEED Tag and NARC to get through ECM coverage most of the time, especially with its wide spread use and now stealth armor makes that even more necessary. PPC's can only do so much to open up the ECM field, but really, that's what your looking at. You need these things to be availble and utilized by teammates to effectively employ LRM's in any map in any game type. You must co-ordinate.

Does that matter what "skill level" you have because as posted earlier what skill you have might be mechanical, strategical, etc: or it might be everything that involves direct fire. Who knows. The concept that LRM's are awful are taken from Tournament settings which are NOT what you see in QP or probably even FP. The two are often not comparable (though since I don't keep up with competitive MWO, I wouldn't know).

It might be a mecha shooter, but in the end its a team based mecha shooter so you can be the golden star of your team mechanically all you want, but if you blunder yourself in front of six mechs who focus you, your dead. The sames true of anyone anywhere. Being "good" is a game to game thing and largely based on the likely hood of you making a mistake or not. LRM's are touch and go, this is factual.

But what they can give the people who gear for them is indirect fire on targets that CANNOT FIRE BACK. That last part is pretty important. If you're not employing LRM's in that way, then no absolutley get some ATM's MRM's SRMS... or just have no fear and LRM people when you see them in the open, when your locked on to them... like you should with them in the first place.

People hate on them because the pugs think its just a liscence to stand behind every one else and let loose with whatever ammo they brought instead of keeping up with the group and applying pressure when needed. You get a decent couple of LRM users and a few narc / tag guys and watch the enemy team blunder themselves into you for the brawl you want or watch them cower and get picked apart piece by piece because they're softer by the time you get there.

That or just red smoke them to death all huddled behind cover. LRM's aren't direct fire so people don't get the cognitive use of them. Same as most people don't understand the effect of sniper types in other games (not applicable to MWO because completely separate subject in our case)

/End rant... didn't expect to go on that long...

[Mystere]

C4NC3R, on 09 August 2017 - 08:31 AM, said:

I can aim with a stearing gear.

The question is, can you beat my steering wheel?

Maker L106, on 09 August 2017 - 10:05 AM, said:

Why is it EVERY time I see this brought up no one mentions having teammates for any reason what so ever?

It is highly probably that a large majority of people playing MWO are Mr. Solo Glory Hounds.

[Luminis]

davoodoo, on 09 August 2017 - 08:47 AM, said:

You accuse me of missing the point...

Yes.

davoodoo, on 09 August 2017 - 08:47 AM, said:

Skill ceiling for all weapons is similiar

lolno.

davoodoo, on 09 August 2017 - 08:47 AM, said:

as aiming itself on big slow mechs is very easy.

LRMs take even that out of the equation and regardless of how simple you think aiming is, there's plenty of terrible players who can't aim.

davoodoo, on 09 August 2017 - 08:47 AM, said:

The actual place where you can improve is positioning, map awareness and exposure time which you need to learn no matter what weapon you use.

If it's the same for all weapons, it has no impact on which weapon takes the least skill.

davoodoo, on 09 August 2017 - 08:47 AM, said:

Now what exactly would playing with feet prove?? another comparison of floor??

Sigh. See above.

I'm honestly growing weary of this. Stay in denial about how much skill your LRM 'Mechs take to pilot. You gotta do what you gotta do.

[Ruar]

Mole, on 09 August 2017 - 07:58 AM, said:

I guess. I'm not defending LRMs though. I don't even own a 'mech that has nothing but LRMs. I had a few clan 'mechs that had some LRMs as a closing weapon but they've been replaced by ATMs except for my Hellbringer which uses two LRM10s alongside its 6 ERMLs. I have a MAuler that has 2 LRM10s used in the same manner in addition to its 2 RAC/5s and 6 MLs just because I felt like the huge missile pod shoulders were an iconic look for that 'mech. Fiddled with replacing the LRMs on my Mauler with MRMs but it just didn't work out. I have a Kintaro that chains LRM5s but has two ERLLs for direct fire, and an Archer that has two LRM15s for indirect fire, 4 SRM4s for brawls, and 3 RL10s because I had extra missile hardpoints. LRMs can make a decent sidekick weapon but I cringe when I see someone who is loaded up with nothing for direct fire but a couple of puny medium lasers or worse, nothing at all but LRMs and thousands of missiles.

I very much agree that LRMs are best used as a supplementary weapon and shouldn't be the primary weapon system. Even on dedicated missile boats like the Catapult and Archer the LRMs should be supplementing energy weapons.

I realize this isn't how it works in lore/TT but the problem is the homing mechanic prevents LRMs from being made into truly effective weapons. As long as they are homing they can't be strong. The best thing PGI could do was get rid of the homing mechanic and put in something else to allow LRMs to be a skill weapon that rewards good play. Which has been discussed on countless threads and PGI still does nothing.

[Gristle Missile]

How about we try this change:

Increase velocity - longer cooldown - more heat - tighter grouping - artemis still provides bonus for direct LoS (or just buff artemis)

What this would do is that instead of getting pounded by LRMs over and over while out of cover, you would get a solid punch in the face that hurts, but then you have time to find some cover before the next volley strikes- LRMs should be able to punish bad positioning.

This would make them a little more viable in comp matches as the reason they aren't great is due to the spread damage.

[Templar Dane]

Mystere, on 09 August 2017 - 10:08 AM, said:

It is highly probably that a large majority of people playing MWO are Mr. Solo Glory Hounds.

With the population being so low and potato population being so high, most matches you need to carry really hard if you want to win.

You've got the LRM guys begging for UAVs and 'HOLD LOCKS', you've got the I-just-saw-Colonel-oneill-video xXxnavysipah420xXx hiding behind cover 1400m from their targets, the poor brawl fit mechs on polar highlands getting wasted because the previous two groups are playing a game of who-can-be-farther-from-the-enemy.....then the average potatos with a decent fit but zero situational awareness and shell shocked into clumping up into a single grid and then not moving from that grid for the rest of the match while endless strikes land onto them until they die.

Then there's the dudes that know how to play the game doing 1500+ damage with 6 kills and you STILL lose the match. You can't sit 1400m with xXxnavysnipah420xXx, you can't sit back with the steiner LRM atlas, you can't bunch up in D5 and poke the enemy team one at a time while airstrikes hit your position on cooldown.

You have to take initiative, you have to flank, you have to seek out their LRM atlas, you have to find and kill xXxnavyshipah420noscopexXx, you have to use your two airstrikes on their bunched potatoes, and you have to hope to hell the skilled players on the opposing team don't get the drop on you. Random PUG taters are not gonna carry the team, the match is won and lost by the actions of the skilled players.

[Ruar]

Gristle Missile, on 09 August 2017 - 10:27 AM, said:

How about we try this change:

Increase velocity - longer cooldown - more heat - tighter grouping - artemis still provides bonus for direct LoS (or just buff artemis)

What this would do is that instead of getting pounded by LRMs over and over while out of cover, you would get a solid punch in the face that hurts, but then you have time to find some cover before the next volley strikes- LRMs should be able to punish bad positioning.

This would make them a little more viable in comp matches as the reason they aren't great is due to the spread damage.

If there was a limit to how many LRMs could be in a match it would work. However, since there is no limit to the number of launchers in a match any type of upgrade while using the homing system will be bad.

Your idea basically means an LRM 80 mech will be applying 80 points of damage to the CT/ST area of a mech before the target can get back in cover. This can be done over and over again because the LRM boat just sits behind cover during the cooldown and heat drop.

Making LRMs more viable while still retaining the nearly skill-less homing mechanism will just put more people using LRMs on the battlefield.

The only way to fix LRMs is to start with getting rid of homing and rebuilding them with a new aiming system.

[mogs01gt]

depends on how someone defines skill weapon. PP weapons are easy as **** to use, typically results in more skills but puts you into a bad position. LRMS are easy as **** to use, barely get any kills but keeps you in a safe position.

[Maker L106]

As someone who's never played a TT BT game or even a turn based mech game for that matter I'm honestly curious how you think long range projectiles will do ANYTHING in MWO at its current state unless they are quirked PPC level fast. I get it Gauss is good because of PPFLD but the guys saying buff LRM's and remove their locking feature, doesn't that kind of defeat the purpose of long range, lock based, indirect fire weapon systems? Wouldn't that be beefy as **** MRM's?

The lock system is fine. The delivery method is fine. If its not competitive there's likely a tournament level reason for that. You're only likely to see very specific setups there too that work in only that environment, it isn't what most of us are dealing with. Broaden your scope when thinking about this sort of thing.

Also remember that streaks are good for specific applications as well...

Though now I get to relive what my old CoD / Battlefield forum days were like. "Stopping power is best" *Jammer user face-desks through floor*

[Nema Nabojiv]

So a dude made a video to disprove a statement no one ever made? Well okay, very useful.