279 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

C4NC3R, on 09 August 2017 - 01:11 PM, said:

Sure, that would fit?

Spoiler

Can you send me a Ferrari to try and find out? Any of the latest models will do.

Edited by Mystere, 09 August 2017 - 01:21 PM.

[Brain Cancer]

Ruar, on 09 August 2017 - 01:17 PM, said:

And I disagree, but there's no point in continuing since you have an answer for it all.

Look. Simply put:

If X weapon is useful, being able to fire more of it at the same time is also useful as it delivers more useful firepower to the appropriate target. In fact, most weapons are MORE useful as you put more of said guns on-target at once.

If a weapon is not useful being fired en masse, it wasn't useful in the first place. A single LMG is a "support weapon" (read: nearly useless), but three or four is actually useful. We don't tell people to mount single LMGs on anything, and here you are saying "Hey, you just slap a few LRM tubes on that robot over there and it'll be fiiiiine, that's all anyone should ever need and that's how we should tune LRMs."

So yeah, I'd call you out on that bit of foolishness every single time I see it.

[C4NC3R]

Mystere, on 09 August 2017 - 01:19 PM, said:

Can you send me a Ferrari to try and find out? Any of the latest models will do.

You said "beat" not to "send". It's not my fault that they dead-mounted a car to my stearing gear. It's just came in one package

Edited by C4NC3R, 09 August 2017 - 01:42 PM.

[C4NC3R]

Brain Cancer, on 09 August 2017 - 01:15 PM, said:

What is this magical realm you live in where any weapon is worth using isn't worth boating? Heck, we'll even boat heavy gauss or AC/20's.

"Support weapon" is just another name for "useless junk that should be replaced with another laser"

+1 But honestly, Lurms are "support" weapons - FIRE SUPPORT WEAPONS. 2xLRM10 is pain in lower CT location, 4-5xLRM5 is a constant troll, more than 40-60LRM together gives a 0 "sh!t" to even triple-AMS/LAMS and still hits a target, anything less than 3xAMS is just a paper shield agains a cargo train. 80-100LRM's is a glass-cannon Holocaust, could be easy dodged by any light mech, but can roll flat a whole assault lance.

[Ruar]

Brain Cancer, on 09 August 2017 - 01:30 PM, said:

Look. Simply put:

If X weapon is useful, being able to fire more of it at the same time is also useful as it delivers more useful firepower to the appropriate target. In fact, most weapons are MORE useful as you put more of said guns on-target at once.

If a weapon is not useful being fired en masse, it wasn't useful in the first place. A single LMG is a "support weapon" (read: nearly useless), but three or four is actually useful. We don't tell people to mount single LMGs on anything, and here you are saying "Hey, you just slap a few LRM tubes on that robot over there and it'll be fiiiiine, that's all anyone should ever need and that's how we should tune LRMs."

So yeah, I'd call you out on that bit of foolishness every single time I see it.

This is why I dislike reading your posts, because you snip out a small portion of what is said, build a nice little strawman, and then proceed to engage against an argument that wasn't even made.

I talked about how I think LRMs should focus on a direct fire role instead of indirect. In the follow up to that conversation I said I view LRMs as support weapons instead of a weapon that should be boated. I talked about Catapults and Archers using LRMs as support weapons to the energy hardpoints.

So I never said anything about slapping on a couple of LRM tubes and nothing else. I talked about changing LRMs so they can be made into an effective long range missile platform, something they currently are not as shown by the OP's video, and then using them in a support role. I inferred things like combining LRMs with MPL or LPL in order to have a build that primarily does damage with the lasers but uses the LRMs to provide some long range punch that was missing (MPL) or some additional long range punch with less heat (LPL).

The problem is you focus in on one small bit of a conversation and then try to destroy that small portion. It makes reading your responses tedious and not worth the time because your reply usually isn't even about what was originally stated.

Similar to how you dismiss the OP's video by talking about all the things it isn't instead of the thing it is. It shows that LRMs are a very simple weapon system to aim and get some damage with. Of course he's not playing as good as someone else becuase he's aiming with his freaking foot. It wasn't a video about how to play LRMs properly, how to maximize LRM damage, or to demonstrate areas where some skill is factored into using LRMs. However you ignore all of those items and instead develop your own little argument to show everyone how your opinion is the only opinion to have. You then use condescension and argumentative words to bully your point into the thread.

Which leads back to there is no point in having a discussion with you because you have an answer for it all. Even when you have to invent an answer for a problem that wasn't even being discussed.

[C4NC3R]

Brain Cancer, on 09 August 2017 - 01:07 PM, said:

I use Clan boats, so I mix LRMs and ATMs. ATMs are at 2-damage in the same rangebands as LRMs are accurate, after all- so I'll frequently be slamming both into opponents at that range.

People frequently, and fatally assume that if they see LRMs, all I have is LRMs. Maybe a laser or two (I do carry a few ERML or HML to work with my ATMs/burn holes to exploit.). They come in thinking all I'm going to do is sprinkle them with dings as they brawl my face off. Pure LRMs are easiest to work against, after all. They're well known as to weaknesses, timing, etc.

I do love getting those brawling bonuses as my 21 ATMs slot into their maximum damage bracket and suddenly, my opponent doesn't have any armor anymore from the alpha strike. Or if he didn't have all his armor, he doesn't have much of anything. I had not one, not two, but an entire lance of medium/heavies on Grim Plexus get sucked in by that tactic, which was 4 kills, all soloed with a fifth light kill for an afterdinner mint because he was trying to run circles around the main team body.



If a lurmer isn't sharing armor, he's hiding somewhere, His missiles have crappy spread because no Artemis and he can't get LOS to missilepoke properly. His range is inferior, so accuracy suffers- and then it suffers more because all he uses are parasitic IDF lock-ons. He fails to distract the enemy or punish them quickly for exposure, so their fire is more telling. And he's a juicy target for lights and mediums to hunt down and ez-kill, because if he isn't close enough to share armor, the team isn't close enough to get the hunter off his back, kill it easily, and get a kill advantage in the process.

In other words, he fails at missile boating and has learned nothing beyond what Juju can do with his foot.

Well on all that I say...

ATM's are a midrange brawl weapon and user must understand such things as positioning and location-location-location. Btw, ATM's are good against mostly energy+SRM/SSRM targets. But if there is "Dakka-Boat" you get more chance to be cleared of Missile Launchers before he gets in deadly 400 metres range, and if that is something like Dual-RAC5 boat. Man.... your game is over. Plus to that... ATM's dead range is 120 metres, C-LRM's aint have dead range.
LRM's does distract, damage enemy... IS LRM's not obviously need an Artemis-IV TS due launching an burst salvo, Clans... must have. For exsample 45-50LRM CP-10Q with 3xLL's does silencing job throwing bricks over the hill better than any other platform with TAG+Artemis. Plus to that LRM's can be used as mortar without lock.

Edited by C4NC3R, 09 August 2017 - 02:01 PM.

[A Really Old Clan Dude]

Burke IV, on 09 August 2017 - 06:51 AM, said:

To the people saying LRMs are dead, its medium LRM carriers are dead because they cant carry enough tubes or enough ammo in the face of new armour and AMS. Spamlord LRMs seem alive and well.

Agree still seeing heavy and assault LRM boats.
A team can carry 1 or two of these LRM boats into a match (but not more) and they can be great to keep the other team suppressed and in cover, nicely clumped up all hiding and then you hit them with the new OP SPAM WEAPON "AIR STRIKE", "AIR STRIKE","AIR STRIKE"

[C4NC3R]

Ruar, on 09 August 2017 - 01:57 PM, said:

Similar to how you dismiss the OP's video by talking about all the things it isn't instead of the thing it is. It shows that LRMs are a very simple weapon system to aim and get some damage with. Of course he's not playing as good as someone else becuase he's aiming with his freaking foot.

And... now we came to point where: - CAN YOU PROVE THAT THE GUY "FOR-SURE" USED HIS FOOT TO AIM MECH ARMED WITH LRM's, AND NOT JUST LURKING AROUND?
Evidence please... for exsample a video where the guy actually driving mech with a foot, not an stream montage.
Btw... MONTAGE is a key-word.

[Ruar]

C4NC3R, on 09 August 2017 - 02:10 PM, said:

And... now we came to point where: - CAN YOU PROVE THAT THE GUY "FOR-SURE" USED HIS FOOT TO AIM MECH ARMED WITH LRM's, AND NOT JUST LURKING AROUND?
Evidence please... for exsample a video where the guy actually driving mech with a foot, not an stream montage.
Btw... MONTAGE is a key-word.

Because using a mouse with your foot to aim LRMs is just so far beyond what can possibly be done it needs some kind of specific video footage to prove it's not made up.

[Kin3ticX]

Juju forgot to use advance zoom to make it 100% genuine

[MischiefSC]

What's funny is that people still argue about LRMs requiring little skill but being an overall inferior weapon system to direct fire.

[C4NC3R]

Wil McCullough, on 09 August 2017 - 09:01 AM, said:

apparently not. or you wouldn't be averaging 0.68 kdr and a 0.45 wlr in season 13.

Season 13 for you, not me ^^. Oh you, so hanging on statistic... well, I'll give ya a chance. Came to our Potato-Tier 5 and do at least 5 kill in a row, in a single Potato-Tier Solo-Q)))

If you can... of cause.

[Ruar]

MischiefSC, on 09 August 2017 - 02:17 PM, said:

What's funny is that people still argue about LRMs requiring little skill but being an overall inferior weapon system to direct fire.

It really depends on definition of skill and what criteria are used to assess weapons. LRMs require very little skill yet are capable of doing a lot of damage which is inferior to direct fire putting damage in one location and getting a kill much faster.

[C4NC3R]

Ruar, on 09 August 2017 - 02:13 PM, said:

Because using a mouse with your foot to aim LRMs is just so far beyond what can possibly be done it needs some kind of specific video footage to prove it's not made up.

Yyyyyyes. It's not "beyond"... we just ain't see keyboard or any other controller. Yap, you probably can aim PPC or Lazer with foot.
I do... I did play CS, BF, COD by foot... but result wasn't be so "impressive".
That's why we need a PROOF.... and you forgot the key-word - MONTAGE.

MischiefSC, on 09 August 2017 - 02:17 PM, said:

What's funny is that people still argue about LRMs requiring little skill but being an overall inferior weapon system to direct fire.

Funny that people actually got trolled and took that seriously

Edited by C4NC3R, 09 August 2017 - 02:21 PM.

[Ruar]

C4NC3R, on 09 August 2017 - 02:23 PM, said:

Yyyyyyes. It's not "beyond"... we just ain't see keyboard or any other controller. Yap, you probably can aim PPC or Lazer with foot.
I do... I did play CS, BF, COD by foot... but result wasn't be so "impressive".
That's why we need a PROOF.... and you forgot the key-word - MONTAGE.


Funny that people actually got trolled and took that seriously

I didn't forget to use the word. I think the OPs video was fine and was the truth. I don't need him to jump through hoops because LRMs really are that easy to aim.

[Mole]

C4NC3R, on 09 August 2017 - 02:10 PM, said:

And... now we came to point where: - CAN YOU PROVE THAT THE GUY "FOR-SURE" USED HIS FOOT TO AIM MECH ARMED WITH LRM's, AND NOT JUST LURKING AROUND?
Evidence please... for exsample a video where the guy actually driving mech with a foot, not an stream montage.
Btw... MONTAGE is a key-word.

Dude even I could probably get a damn LRM lock with my foot. That's not the hard part about using them.

[Jep Jorgensson]

Wil McCullough, on 09 August 2017 - 04:44 AM, said:

my foot.

or rather, juju's foot.

literally.

Not everyone chooses to solely master the oh-so-hard-to-learn art of point-and-shoot. When I was back in the marines, the riflemen had a similar view towards us mortarmen. But whenever $hit hit the fan, they were really quick to call us for help. LRM's are but one of the many weapons systems here and frankly, if someone cannot deal with LRM's despite the parade of hard counters aimed right at them and all the nerfing against them the last few months on top of being the only weapon you are warned about whenever someone shoots at you, if someone cannot deal with them despite all that, then they might as well enjoy being a permanent tier 6.

[Knuckles OTool]

I always thought that most of the skill in this game revolved around positioning and communication, but yeah shooting is part of it. Loadouts are easy to copy or come up with and aiming just takes a bit of time(and lower sensitivity than default) but really good guys seem like they could excel in any mech.

I dont run lrms on anything but when I switch from my stormcrow to my supernova that has some atms I find it frustrating, hard to aim, but a nice change of pace and playstyle.

Edited by Knuckles OTool, 09 August 2017 - 03:42 PM.

[Mystere]

Jep Jorgensson, on 09 August 2017 - 02:56 PM, said:

Not everyone chooses to solely master the oh-so-hard-to-learn art of point-and-shoot. When I was back in the marines, the riflemen had a similar view towards us mortarmen. But whenever $hit hit the fan, they were really quick to call us for help.

There is a reason why some people are just lowly grunts, while others are high-ranking officers.

[Erufen]

davoodoo, on 09 August 2017 - 06:43 AM, said:

Glad that you asked.

You killed enemy by blowing both of his arms, 1 st and 1 leg while stripping armor of everything?? well then you ****** it up and i dont give a **** about your damage.

Ideal scenario?? 2 st, 2 legs or ct.
Not ideal scenario?? you stripped armor of things that you didnt need to.
Everything else is just skewing damage.

Also my leaderboard in this season, well im yet to play a mech that is fully mastered after last shopping.

Funny you should mention that. You are aware that LRMs spread damage around the mech, right? So, pray do tell, how do you consistently force LRMs to hit a specific component? (you don't.)

davoodoo, on 09 August 2017 - 07:04 AM, said:

Yes it does matter... you lump all lrm users together with a guy who plays with his foot and did pretty poor for a lrm user, but you gasp because of empty number signifying fuckall.

750 damage is "poor" for an LRM boat?

Lol.

Please tell me more. (The build) No, seriously. Show me at least 5 screenshots of your LRM capabilities breaking or matching 750 damage.

There we have another A1 who didn't even break 150 damage, and he, too, was LRMs. I'm not entirely sure about the C1, but I would not be surprised, at all, if he went LRM40 and some lasers or tags.

LRMs take no skill at all. You have to be with your team, at the back of the push, but within their range to get these results. Sitting out back lobing LRMs at 1k+ range is where the problem starts.

Also, I have far, FAR more screenshots of over 1k damage with ballistic, SRM and laser boats than LRM boats.

Edited by Erufen, 09 August 2017 - 03:44 PM.