279 replies to this topic

[Wil McCullough]

Roadbuster, on 09 August 2017 - 07:01 AM, said:

So are all other guided weapons.

And what is skill for you?
Is it twitch-shooter action skill, PPC style?
Is it aiming skill, keeping lasers on a component for the burn duration or compensating AC bullet drop and projectile speed?
Or is it positioning and map knowledge, required for snipers and to be effective with LRMs?
Movement skill for brawlers?

I find it easy to load some ACs, aim front at enemy and press button.
Or boating SRMs and play facehugger.
Requires no skill, just run towards enemy and press button.

Skill =/= Skill

is this a round-about way of saying juju is skilful with lurms using his foot? lol

or is this a round-about way of saying you can do better than him using your foot and acs? cos i'd love to see a video of that.

[Novakaine]

Thanks.

[Wil McCullough]

davoodoo, on 09 August 2017 - 07:04 AM, said:

Yes it does matter... you lump all lrms together with ppl who perform like a guy who plays with his foot...

actually i'm not. if you really want to, i can.

but then again, most lurmers can't deal 750 damage playing with their hands. seems like an attempt to catch me in a strawman and go off about how i'm calling lurmers potatoes or something. not falling for it.

point still stands that lurms are the only weapon system that allows you to deal 750 damage at all in an actual t1 match while playing with your FOOT.

unless there's a video out there showing a guy doing the same thing with any other weapon system, juju's video is an extremely good argument at shutting down "lurms need skill to be used effectively" arguments.

you seem really salty that he managed to do that and i'm pointing it out.

why is that?

Edited by Wil McCullough, 09 August 2017 - 07:09 AM.

[Templar Dane]

Roadbuster, on 09 August 2017 - 07:01 AM, said:

So are all other guided weapons.

And what is skill for you?
Is it twitch-shooter action skill, PPC style?
Is it aiming skill, keeping lasers on a component for the burn duration or compensating AC bullet drop and projectile speed?
Or is it positioning and map knowledge, required for snipers and to be effective with LRMs?
Movement skill for brawlers?

I find it easy to load some ACs, aim front at enemy and press button.
Or boating SRMs and play facehugger.
Requires no skill, just run towards enemy and press button.

Skill =/= Skill

Wait so you're saying positioning, minimap awareness etc doesn't come into play with other weapons?

When you're using other weapons you actually need to aim, need to be aware of enemy positions because of return fire, have to watch your heat more carefully because shutting down while exposed = death, need to actually shoot at lights instead of just getting killed and moaning to teammates about how your death was their fault......

While with LRMs you can sit in the back lobbing missiles with an aim so easy you can use your foot, at 100% armor the entire match until all your other teammates are dead.

[Shifty McSwift]

He potatoed out and died so early too lol.

[davoodoo]

Wil McCullough, on 09 August 2017 - 07:08 AM, said:

actually i'm not. if you really want to, i can.

but then again, most lurmers can't deal 750 damage playing with their hands. seems like an attempt to catch me in a strawman and go off about how i'm calling lurmers potatoes or something. not falling for it.

point still stands that lurms are the only weapon system that allows you to deal 750 damage at all in an actual t1 match while playing with your FOOT.

unless there's a video out there showing a guy doing the same thing with any other weapon system, juju's video is an extremely good argument at shutting down "lurms need skill to be used effectively" arguments.

you seem really salty that he managed to do that and i'm pointing it out.

why is that?

nature of spread weapons, little effect for much damage...
considering how well that guy was operating camera with his foot, i bet he could repeat that with mrms...

ultimately damage is empty number which barely corresponds to actual impact on enemy mechs...

Edited by davoodoo, 09 August 2017 - 07:14 AM.

[STEF_]

DaMuchi, on 09 August 2017 - 05:20 AM, said:

To say lrms are a skill-less weapon is simply wrong. It doesn't need much skill but a pilot still needs to know how to use them properly.

I don't know what makes me laugh more...if juju's video or THIS POST!!! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 09 August 2017 - 04:33 PM.

[Burke IV]

That annihilator died really fast didnt it and really he served himself up to die that way. Pathetic piloting If that potato hadnt been there the damage total might have been different. Just saying

[Zergling]

davoodoo, on 09 August 2017 - 07:04 AM, said:

did pretty poor for a lrm user

743 damage and 2 KMDD assists is not 'pretty poor for a LRM user'; that is well above average.

davoodoo, on 09 August 2017 - 07:12 AM, said:

ultimately damage is empty number which barely corresponds to actual impact on enemy mechs...

Then look at the fact he scored 2 KMDD assists instead of the damage.

Edited by Zergling, 09 August 2017 - 07:17 AM.

[H I A S]

davoodoo, on 09 August 2017 - 07:04 AM, said:

Yes it does matter... you lump all lrm users together with a guy who plays with his foot and did pretty poor for a lrm user, but you gasp because of empty number signifying fuckall.

You do better then juju? Your stats saying you are average joe.

[davoodoo]

H I A S, on 09 August 2017 - 07:16 AM, said:

You do better then juju? Your stats saying you are average joe.

In lrm boat, yes ill do better than footage shown here.

Zergling, on 09 August 2017 - 07:15 AM, said:

Then look at the fact he scored 2 KMDD assists instead of the damage.

with 2 assists total, it was hard not to score those

I would be impressed by 750 dmg with lasers, even if played with hands, though 2 kmdd is a little meh for that kind of pinpoint damage.

Edited by davoodoo, 09 August 2017 - 07:32 AM.

[Spr1ggan]

Wil McCullough, on 09 August 2017 - 06:35 AM, said:

you've never lost before? he did 750 damage playing with his foot.

are you expecting him to carry his team to a win too?

you're kinda grasping at straws.

On mining as well which has a lot of cover. Imagine if he'd got polar. xD

[Ruar]

Simply using LRMs and going some damage requires very little skill. In fact, no other weapon is as easy to use in that situation... do some damage. Even streaks require more skill in order to get into range.

However, being effective with LRMs requires some skill to understand trajectory, range, AMS, target selection, team movement, etc.

If I was going to rank weapons by skill required to use it would look something like this going from easiest to hardest.

Skill level 1- Able to do some damage
LRMs
ATMs
SSRMs
Lasers
Ballistics
PPCs
SRMs/MRMs
Gauss

Skill level 2- Able to do effective damage
LRMs
SSRMs
ATMs
SRMs
Lasers
Ballistics
PPCs
MRMs
Gauss

Skill level 3- Master of the game
Doesn't matter because at this point the player skill surpasses weapon limitations

LRMs will always be a relatively low skill weapon regardless of how you measure skill. Homing makes everything easier compared to other aiming systems at the same level of skill requirement.

[Mole]

The hardest part about LRMs that the common LRM boat potato doesn't seem to understand is how to properly hold locks, fire on targets that you believe have a solid lock, and hold fire on targets that the lock is intermittent on and when your missiles are just going to smack into terrain before they reach their target. The reason there is a crowd out there that says LRMs are a high skill weapon is because I've watched scores of people even in tier 1 waste all their thousands of missiles on locks that are not solid, continue firing on targets that are in cover and not giving a hit indicator, fire their LRMs (especially IS) below minimum range, and even fire volleys into ******* walls because they are too dumb to position themselves where their missiles will have an unobstructed flight path. They require some skill in positioning. They aren't just "get lock, hold down button" unless you're in the correct position.

Edited by Mole, 09 August 2017 - 07:37 AM.

[Ruar]

Mole, on 09 August 2017 - 07:36 AM, said:

The hardest part about LRMs that the common LRM boat potato doesn't seem to understand is how to properly hold locks, fire on targets that you believe have a solid lock, and hold fire on targets that the lock is intermittent on and when your missiles are just going to smack into terrain before they reach their target. The reason there is a crowd out there that says LRMs are a high skill weapon is because I've watched scores of people even in tier 1 waste all their thousands of missiles on locks that are not solid, continue firing on targets that are in cover and not giving a hit indicator, fire their LRMs (especially IS) below minimum range, and even fire volleys into ******* walls because they are too dumb to position themselves where their missiles will have an unobstructed flight path. They require some skill in positioning. They aren't just "get lock, hold down button" unless you're in the correct position.

Those same people would do even less damage with other weapons though.

[Templar Dane]

TLDR of thread:

Statement made with video = LRMs are so easy to use you could use your feet to play the game and do pretty well

Then potatoes defending LRMs saying it takes elite skill and the video shows a "poor performance"

[davoodoo]

Ok lets, assume that this is fantastic, he with 0 effort did amazing job.

Would you like such ppl in your team?? cause so far lurm boats doing 700 dmg are considered lowest of low...

Edited by davoodoo, 09 August 2017 - 07:53 AM.

[Shifty McSwift]

There's nothing at all wrong with having a "low skill weapon", one of the weapons is going to get that badge at the end of the day anyway and there are vast disparities in gaming skill across the globe.

I think the problem that comes up from displaying something like this, is that it demonstrates the gap between the effort required to get such scores with LRMs as it does with most other weapon systems. To me that is a bit of a problem anyway, it does look like despite using his foot, he did exhibit other levels of skill in good positioning to start, and it looked like he got lucky vs 0 AMS.

But he died within a relatively short period after the fight began, exhibiting extremely little real effort, and smashed out a score that would take many other weapon systems a lot more effort and coordination to pull off.

Edited by Shifty McSwift, 09 August 2017 - 07:54 AM.

[Wil McCullough]

Shifty McSwift, on 09 August 2017 - 07:53 AM, said:

There's nothing at all wrong with having a "low skill weapon", one of the weapons is going to get that badge at the end of the day anyway and there are vast disparities in gaming skill across the globe.

I think the problem that comes up from displaying something that demonstrates the gap between the effort required to get such scores with LRMs as it does with most other weapon systems, to me that is a bit of a problem anyway, it does look like despite using his foot, he did exhibit other levels of skill in good positioning to start, and it looked like he got lucky vs 0 AMS.

But he died within a relatively short period after the fight began, exhibiting extremely little real effort, and smashed out a score that would take many other weapon systems a lot more effort and coordination to pull off.

just to fact check, he DID face a dual ams guy (and died soon after). but you're kinda right. no ams until pretty late in the vid.

Edited by Wil McCullough, 09 August 2017 - 07:55 AM.

[davoodoo]

Shifty McSwift, on 09 August 2017 - 07:53 AM, said:

I think the problem that comes up from displaying something like this, is that it demonstrates the gap between the effort required to get such scores with LRMs as it does with most other weapon systems. To me that is a bit of a problem anyway, it does look like despite using his foot, he did exhibit other levels of skill in good positioning to start, and it looked like he got lucky vs 0 AMS.

On that i agree. someone could precisely drill ct of 100 tonners and end up with 4 kills for same dmg while this guy scored 2 assits and a kill and ended up with pretty high match score.

Edited by davoodoo, 09 August 2017 - 07:55 AM.