197 replies to this topic

[Jay Leon Hart]

Paigan, on 02 November 2017 - 07:01 AM, said:

Why do you even want IS omnis?

So I can boat all the lasers

[Paigan]

Jay Leon Hart, on 02 November 2017 - 07:03 AM, said:

So I can boat all the lasers

You mean like something similar to this?
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3bc1313802577f3

Edited by Paigan, 02 November 2017 - 07:11 AM.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Paigan, on 02 November 2017 - 07:11 AM, said:

You mean like something similar to this?
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3bc1313802577f3

No, something similar to this

[Paigan]

Jay Leon Hart, on 02 November 2017 - 07:13 AM, said:

No, something similar to this

Apart from shifting 2 lasers to the STs and leaving 2 laser slots unused, this is exactely (read: can be done) with the Nova prime variant itself. There could be any such Battlemech designed with 12 E hardpoints, as well.

Very bad point for the so missed potential of Omnimechs.

Here, I'll help you:
You mean something like 12+ lasers on a SCR, GAR or EXE that can only be done by combining E-heavy pods from different variants.
But how many of those have you seen successfully boating such weapons? Especially without supporting quirks to speak of.
And even if, is it worth the gigantic tradeoff of having fixed FF, ES, engine, JJS, etc just to have 3-4 more lasers you can't cool anyway?
Usually, it's more than enough to have 8-9 E slots. There are already plenty of IS Mechs that have that. Some of them even have quirks the boating Clan Omni Mechs can't even dream of.

It's all just emotional "we want the shiny toys, too" lamenting while in fact, we already long have something superior to it. Namely Battlemechs.

Edited by Paigan, 02 November 2017 - 07:26 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Raptor, Men-Shen, Black Hawk-KU, Sunder

We have been over this, those are the most capable IS omnis of each class.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Paigan, on 02 November 2017 - 07:23 AM, said:

Apart from shifting 2 lasers to the STs and leaving 2 laser slots unused, this is exactely (read: can be done) with the Nova prime variant itself.

Which is not an IS 'mech, which is the point. But the Black Hawk-KU? A 12E IS Heavy could be so much fun.

[Gas Guzzler]

Jay Leon Hart, on 02 November 2017 - 06:59 AM, said:

I'm still 50/50 on the Assault, between the Templar and Sunder

The Templar is garbage with very low arms. What makes you want it vs the Sunder?

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 02 November 2017 - 07:29 AM.

[R Valentine]

If we got an IS omnipack it would be the least used mech in history. Clan battlemechs > clan omnis. Clan omnimechs locked to XL don't die with 1 shoulder loss. IS omnimechs locked to XL do. If clan battlemechs > clan omnimechs, then IS battlemechs > IS omnimechs ESPECIALLY if they have XL engines. IS omnis would be the worst failure of this game since faction play.

[Gas Guzzler]

Kiran Yagami, on 02 November 2017 - 07:31 AM, said:

If we got an IS omnipack it would be the least used mech in history. Clan battlemechs > clan omnis. Clan omnimechs locked to XL don't die with 1 shoulder loss. IS omnimechs locked to XL do. If clan battlemechs > clan omnimechs, then IS battlemechs > IS omnimechs ESPECIALLY if they have XL engines. IS omnis would be the worst failure of this game since faction play.

Well, its easier to balance because for instance knowing that the Sunder is locked into an XL360, they can buff its durability knowing that nobody can compound that additional durability by switching to a standard engine or LFE. In short, I'm not worried. If it was a 48 kph IS mech with a locked XL, yeah I would say no thanks.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Gas Guzzler, on 02 November 2017 - 07:28 AM, said:

The Templar is garbage with very low arms. What makes you want it vs the Sunder?

An 85 ton Ballistic 'mech could be nice, plus I prefer the look of the Templar, especially if it gets those pauldrons.

[R Valentine]

Gas Guzzler, on 02 November 2017 - 07:42 AM, said:

Well, its easier to balance because for instance knowing that the Sunder is locked into an XL360, they can buff its durability knowing that nobody can compound that additional durability by switching to a standard engine or LFE. In short, I'm not worried. If it was a 48 kph IS mech with a locked XL, yeah I would say no thanks.

Like a lot of IS mechs, the Sunder has large, clearly defined hit boxes visually, so zeroing in on your shoulders will be stupid easy no matter how hard you twist and how many quirks you throw at it. Unless PGI bites the bullet and just gives IS XLs side torso survival, like they should have done years ago, the Sunder will join a long line of never-used IS mechs due to bad hit boxes and geometry.

[Gas Guzzler]

Jay Leon Hart, on 02 November 2017 - 07:49 AM, said:

An 85 ton Ballistic 'mech could be nice, plus I prefer the look of the Templar, especially if it gets those pauldrons.

What do you mean ballistic mech? What ballistics are you going to run? 3 UAC5s? The ones in the arms will be so low.

Kiran Yagami, on 02 November 2017 - 07:50 AM, said:

Like a lot of IS mechs, the Sunder has large, clearly defined hit boxes visually, so zeroing in on your shoulders will be stupid easy no matter how hard you twist and how many quirks you throw at it. Unless PGI bites the bullet and just gives IS XLs side torso survival, like they should have done years ago, the Sunder will join a long line of never-used IS mechs due to bad hit boxes and geometry.

False, I will use it, and I will wreck with it.

And having not seen Alex's rendition (look at what he did with the Black Lanner), you can't even say this for sure. Its CT should also do reasonably well at shielding damaged side torsos given that it protrudes forward slightly.

[Jay Leon Hart]

Gas Guzzler, on 02 November 2017 - 07:52 AM, said:

What do you mean ballistic mech? What ballistics are you going to run? 3 UAC5s? The ones in the arms will be so low.

40 tons is a little on the low side for 3x AC10 and 3x LB10X seems like a waste, but a mix of (U)AC5s and (U)AC10s could be alright.

[Gas Guzzler]

Jay Leon Hart, on 02 November 2017 - 08:04 AM, said:

40 tons is a little on the low side for 3x AC10 and 3x LB10X seems like a waste, but a mix of (U)AC5s and (U)AC10s could be alright.

So, you can put the UAC10 in the right arm, and then a UAC5 in each ST assuming we get the -D (will have to replace the X pulse lasers with LPLs). Unfortunately, there is a hard locked CASE in the RT which would prevent 3 AC10s, unless they remove it.

On either loadout, the ammo placement is less than ideal.

The other interesting thing is potentially 5 UAC2s, but that will probably be a little light on ammo.

On the Sunder I would be looking for 2 HPPCs and a UAC10 or something similar. If it had the hardpoints for it, it could potentially do 2 UAC5s and 2 PPCs as well but that may require a made up variant unless we got the Samuel hero which might raise P2W flags...

[chucklesMuch]

Gas Guzzler, on 02 November 2017 - 07:26 AM, said:

Raptor, Men-Shen, Black Hawk-KU, Sunder

We have been over this, those are the most capable IS omnis of each class.

+1 for this pack.

I'm mostly interested in Raptor and Men Shen though.

[R Valentine]

Gas Guzzler, on 02 November 2017 - 07:52 AM, said:

What do you mean ballistic mech? What ballistics are you going to run? 3 UAC5s? The ones in the arms will be so low.



False, I will use it, and I will wreck with it.

And having not seen Alex's rendition (look at what he did with the Black Lanner), you can't even say this for sure. Its CT should also do reasonably well at shielding damaged side torsos given that it protrudes forward slightly.

False, because if PGI has any sense at all, we'll never see IS omnis in this flawed game.

[FupDup]

Kiran Yagami, on 02 November 2017 - 11:21 AM, said:

False, because if PGI has any sense at all, we'll never see IS omnis in this flawed game.

PGI only has to avoid the extreme garbage ones like the Owens and Strider (lol hardlocked SHS). Most of the others can be salvaged with quarks and some have the potential to be legitimately decent.

[LordNothing]

Kiran Yagami, on 10 August 2017 - 06:17 AM, said:

IS omnis that are locked to XL = fail. Any mech locked to an XL engine that doesn't have amazing hit boxes is DOA. PGI screwed the pooch on IS omnis a long time ago when they decided XL engine side torso death should be a thing. That a horrible, stupid decision that killed many other concepts long before they were even born, like IS omnis. The Sunder in particular is very boxy and large. That would be one giant death trap with its locked XL engine. IS omnis shouldn't even be considered in MWO. Don't even think it.

not to say that is omnis will be somewhat at a disadvantage, the way clan battlemechs tend to be better than clan omnis. that would make is omnis the worst. unless you do something to give the is omnis an advantage. for example getting rid of locked equipment, buffing endo/ferro (such as taking fewer crit slots), quirking structure/armor (especially in the sts of locked xl engine mechs). there are things you can do to bring them better into line.

[Jay Leon Hart]

LordNothing, on 02 November 2017 - 12:18 PM, said:

not to say that is omnis will be somewhat at a disadvantage, the way clan battlemechs tend to be better than clan omnis. that would make is omnis the worst. unless you do something to give the is omnis an advantage. for example getting rid of locked equipment, buffing endo/ferro (such as taking fewer crit slots), quirking structure/armor (especially in the sts of locked xl engine mechs). there are things you can do to bring them better into line.

I've probably already mentioned it in this thread, but...

We can kill the BattleMech / OmniMech & IS XL / Clan XL disparity with 1 change;

BattleMech XL = die on ST loss
OmniMech XL = penalty of ST loss

LFE? 1 thing at a time

[TheArisen]

Gas Guzzler, on 02 November 2017 - 07:26 AM, said:

Raptor, Men-Shen, Black Hawk-KU, Sunder

We have been over this, those are the most capable IS omnis of each class.

Yes these 4