209 replies to this topic

[Kyrie]

There is a reason most games are played outside of FP. ;-)

Aside from my issues of permanent disappointment with FP, given what it could have been back when it was a dream known as CW, its simply not meant to be played as PUG.

[Kin3ticX]

Kyrie, on 13 August 2017 - 06:42 AM, said:

There is a reason most games are played outside of FP. ;-)

Aside from my issues of permanent disappointment with FP, given what it could have been back when it was a dream known as CW, its simply not meant to be played as PUG.

Well yeah, ~80% of the combat is farming skittles or really really bad 12 mans and 1/3rd of the features are missing. Now the mode is a 24/7 tukayyid event, in other words they sent the mode backwards. The map is totally ceremonial to the point you can move the map off your screen and just look at the background.

PGI has had this dumb policy since very early phase 2 of making CW the training grounds for tier 5s and fresh accounts(the Reeeinforcments Needed button). These are matches which they should be working out in solo queue with their fellow bottom feeder tier players. Nope, just throw them into the sharks right away and scare them away as quickly as possible.

Edited by Kin3ticX, 13 August 2017 - 03:34 PM.

[Leone]

JeremiahRose, on 11 August 2017 - 09:39 PM, said:

This is also because it's really REALLY easy for the defending team to spawncamp... and there's almost no reason not to. It makes total sense... but it shouldn't be allowed.

@OP, I believe this is the core crux of your problem. There's every reason not to stay in your spawn and pitch a tent, not the least of which being it's a poor tactical decision. The game is based on combat, and if you don't go to it, it'll come to you. As for not allowing it, there've been plenty of discussions on how to prevent people from just camping their drop zone, an unfortunately there's no good answer we've found. Anything that pushes folk outta their drop'll as often as not funnel 'em into a firing line, or punish folk for the game's own glitches.

JeremiahRose, on 11 August 2017 - 09:39 PM, said:

This isn't a "tactical simulation" it's a GAME. Games are supposed to be fun.

If you aren't having fun, I'd suggest changing the way you are playing it. Try other approaches, see what works. Plenty of folk've been enjoying the game, and I completely understand that we may enjoy different sorts of games and approach gaming from different direction, but if you're not having fun, then I'm afraid you're doing it wrong, and need to change your approach.

~Leone.

[justcallme A S H]

JeremiahRose, on 12 August 2017 - 03:47 PM, said:

At which point did I ever give the indication that I hadn't read that or don't agree with it 100%?

I don't have a problem with ANY of that.

I have a problem with how easily other human beings can foul up MY game.... and spawncamping.

Well the fact your tactics sound poor and your loadouts most likely are as well.

That said your first post doesn't make a lot of sense - You are talking about attacking in SIEGE mode, yes?

If so:

1. If the opposing side is spawncamping their own zone, go and rush their gens? Win.

2. They are paying in ambush (as you do in defending), then work out where they are and just drop a metric tonne of airstrikes on them? Soften up, force them to move or lose.

3. Get a team, organise, win.

3 very basic tactic errors you are not making by identifying either and then properly dealing with it. Defending has become a LOT harder since the strike-spam due to Skill Tree. You can no longer just "setup" somewhere. A good opposing force will decimate you with strikes. But again if you blindly rush in like lemmings, expect to be slaughtered.
Look at my WLR in game - it's not magic, it's teamwork and proper loadouts.

[JeremiahRose]

Leone, on 13 August 2017 - 05:41 PM, said:

@OP, I believe this is the core crux of your problem. There's every reason not to stay in your spawn and pitch a tent, not the least of which being it's a poor tactical decision. The game is based on combat, and if you don't go to it, it'll come to you. As for not allowing it, there've been plenty of discussions on how to prevent people from just camping their drop zone, an unfortunately there's no good answer we've found. Anything that pushes folk outta their drop'll as often as not funnel 'em into a firing line, or punish folk for the game's own glitches.

I think you misunderstand how I'm using the term. This isn't about one team staying in their own spawn... it's about the opposing team sitting in their opponent's spawn and killing them before/as they drop. Once that begins, it's nearly impossible to leave your own spawn without dying or taking severe damage in the process.

[JeremiahRose]

justcallme A S H, on 13 August 2017 - 07:04 PM, said:

Well the fact your tactics sound poor and your loadouts most likely are as well.

You're a real charmer, eh? My loadouts are fine, thank you. And there simply isn't enough information to determine my tactics... but it's nice to see how you've assumed. But please... enlighten me. Talk to me about my tactics.

Quote

That said your first post doesn't make a lot of sense - You are talking about attacking in SIEGE mode, yes?

If so:

1. If the opposing side is spawncamping their own zone, go and rush their gens? Win.

Spawncamping is camping in an opponent's spawn and killing them before/as they spawn. Sitting in your own spawn is not spawncamping. That's just being a coward.

[feeWAIVER]

Tier 4.
Please stay out of FP. You are letting your team down every time.

[JeremiahRose]

feeWAIVER, on 14 August 2017 - 11:47 AM, said:

Tier 4.
Please stay out of FP. You are letting your team down every time.

I love this post so much. It exemplifies everything about a certain player type.

Glad to know I'm not wrong.

[feeWAIVER]

JeremiahRose, on 14 August 2017 - 12:27 PM, said:

I love this post so much. It exemplifies everything about a certain player type.

Glad to know I'm not wrong.

° Says he's leaving for 6 months and probably won't come back.
° Sticks around to reply to every post on his whine thread.

[JeremiahRose]

feeWAIVER, on 14 August 2017 - 12:56 PM, said:

° Says he's leaving for 6 months and probably won't come back.
° Sticks around to reply to every post on his whine thread.

Actually, I decided to stick it out due to some encouraging words... but again... keep confirming. You're doing a great job.

Do you take pleasure in making posts like this? Does it scratch a certain itch for you?

What possible benefit do you have in making personal attacks like this?

[JeremiahRose]

Dude, lay off.

Seriously, find someone else to insult and get over yourself.

Thanks.

[metallio]

JeremiahRose, on 14 August 2017 - 01:52 PM, said:

Actually, I decided to stick it out due to some encouraging words... but again... keep confirming. You're doing a great job.

You're not alone out there .

Aside from the FW forum lizards being reptilian as they do, I'll tell you that I essentially 100% pug FW. During events there's actually a pretty hefty PuG population that plays and you've got very, very good chances of winning 50/50 or so. Not that the advice here isn't all good, but I've never found it useful. I PuG, and I don't use voice. I play silent because life, and that isn't changing....so...

I'd suggest learning a slightly different game when pugging FW. I always bring one LRM mech. When playing Clan this isn't a disadvantage, usually bring a Mad Dog...some LRMs and laser vomit and it does wonders...an LRM packing Madcat played at 400m isn't a bad deal either. When IS it's usually a Catapult.

The neat thing about this is that a "winnable" Pug game involves disarray on both sides, and you capitalize on it by being the loathed indirect fire support mech. I've clocked 1500 dmg with that MD as my first drop. You hang back, skirmish a little bit to force the enemy to not steamroll, then back into cover and let the heavy armor find some locks. Stay at their heels and adjust as necessary.

No, it's not fancy, but it damn sure works. After that? Play enough that you've got a good feel for how a game ebbs and flows...then manipulate your team-mates by aggressively attacking an avenue you want them to take and do it where they can see you move...then back off and flank. If it works right you've taken some damage and the slow mass of your team has moved up about the time the enemy decides to shoot back. That's what you want your team doing anyway, so you move to the side and beat up stragglers who are overheating.

I've won quite a few complete PuG games just being good support. No, you don't win more than 50% this way, but it's a heck of a lot more fun than being defeatist about it and just dying because you can.

Not that it isn't called for plenty of the time...and lord knows I don't disagree with your feelings on this topic...I played a long, long time before I got the feel for it, and I didn't see any frikkin' way for it to change...but it does. If you keep playing it changes. No, not a ton and your team giving up will tank you every time, but man you win so much more often when the 1/12 you're bringing to the match turns out well.

Don't plan on being awesome ever time. The meta doesn't work here (well, it kinda does). What works is finding the play style that would win the match IF IT'S WINNABLE and then playing it. Yeah, you'll die a lot...but you also find openings that you didn't see before because you were playing it safe. Be aggressive, discover how the enemy is expecting you to attack and then do something different. They'll be PuGs or drunk or bad at the game or something else when you win against a premade....but you WILL win sometimes. Way more often than you're winning right now.

Might not be worth your time to crank it out, but if you do I think you'll find it somewhat rewarding.

[Commander A9]

JeremiahRose, on 11 August 2017 - 09:39 PM, said:

First off, I haven't been playing for quite a while. I got burned out after the faction play seriously let me down.

The disparity between a PUG and a team is laughable... it's really not worth playing most of the time. That alone is annoying. I'm also an IS player. That also creates a problem, especially when my team is on offense.

I played MANY matches... and have never won against a team with a PUG. My team has always been decimated. Always. About 1/3 of the team just disconnects when they realize what's going on sometimes without even using all of their drops.

...

The disparity between PUGs and teams are ridiculous... the disparity between clans on defense vs. IS on offense is pretty laughable... the only time I've ever seen it come close is if the clan players are a PUG... AND the IS is a team... but I have only seen that happen once.

...

One of my teammates suggested that we all just sit outside the walls and leave the gates up. It's not the first time I've seen that suggested... and the response is always "we have to try" but really... the game is already over before it starts at that point. People have given up.

NOT. FUN.

I'm sensing a pattern here...

Okay...some questions...

Are we trying to say the game isn't fun because one side lost so badly that they questioned the viability of the game's mechanics as designed?

And are we trying to suggest that "trying" to win is not fun?

Edited by Commander A9, 14 August 2017 - 02:09 PM.

[JeremiahRose]

metallio, on 14 August 2017 - 02:05 PM, said:

You're not alone out there .

Aside from the FW forum lizards being reptilian as they do, I'll tell you that I essentially 100% pug FW. During events there's actually a pretty hefty PuG population that plays and you've got very, very good chances of winning 50/50 or so. Not that the advice here isn't all good, but I've never found it useful. I PuG, and I don't use voice. I play silent because life, and that isn't changing....so...

I'd suggest learning a slightly different game when pugging FW. I always bring one LRM mech. When playing Clan this isn't a disadvantage, usually bring a Mad Dog...some LRMs and laser vomit and it does wonders...an LRM packing Madcat played at 400m isn't a bad deal either. When IS it's usually a Catapult.

The neat thing about this is that a "winnable" Pug game involves disarray on both sides, and you capitalize on it by being the loathed indirect fire support mech. I've clocked 1500 dmg with that MD as my first drop. You hang back, skirmish a little bit to force the enemy to not steamroll, then back into cover and let the heavy armor find some locks. Stay at their heels and adjust as necessary.

No, it's not fancy, but it damn sure works. After that? Play enough that you've got a good feel for how a game ebbs and flows...then manipulate your team-mates by aggressively attacking an avenue you want them to take and do it where they can see you move...then back off and flank. If it works right you've taken some damage and the slow mass of your team has moved up about the time the enemy decides to shoot back. That's what you want your team doing anyway, so you move to the side and beat up stragglers who are overheating.

I've won quite a few complete PuG games just being good support. No, you don't win more than 50% this way, but it's a heck of a lot more fun than being defeatist about it and just dying because you can.

Not that it isn't called for plenty of the time...and lord knows I don't disagree with your feelings on this topic...I played a long, long time before I got the feel for it, and I didn't see any frikkin' way for it to change...but it does. If you keep playing it changes. No, not a ton and your team giving up will tank you every time, but man you win so much more often when the 1/12 you're bringing to the match turns out well.

Don't plan on being awesome ever time. The meta doesn't work here (well, it kinda does). What works is finding the play style that would win the match IF IT'S WINNABLE and then playing it. Yeah, you'll die a lot...but you also find openings that you didn't see before because you were playing it safe. Be aggressive, discover how the enemy is expecting you to attack and then do something different. They'll be PuGs or drunk or bad at the game or something else when you win against a premade....but you WILL win sometimes. Way more often than you're winning right now.

Might not be worth your time to crank it out, but if you do I think you'll find it somewhat rewarding.

Thank you for taking the time to write that.

Agreed on the lizards.

Since my post I've actually won a few matches, mostly because the other team was either a PUG as well, or because we just had good communication and teamwork. The times I've lost since then are almost universally because 1/3 or more of the team is completely silent and doing their own thing... usually the wrong thing.

My main issues, even the spawncamping, all stem from players who give up or just play like garbage and lose the match before it starts.... and there isn't much I can do about that if I'm going to keep Pugging... so I've been hanging out on the TC channels and I'll be doing more of my play that way from now on.

Again... thank you for your words.
J

[JeremiahRose]

Commander A9, on 14 August 2017 - 02:07 PM, said:

I'm sensing a pattern here...

Okay...some questions...

Are we trying to say the game isn't fun because one side lost so badly that they questioned the viability of the game's mechanics as designed?

And are we trying to suggest that "trying" to win is not fun?

I'd say the game isn't fun when you can't win the game by yourself... but often have to try to because so many of the other players are either too arrogant or just completely not caring that they ruin it for everyone.

I'm not questioning the viability of the game's mechanics... though I do question the actual benefit of spawncamping. Most other games have ways to handle it... staying in your own spawn too long has a penalty, and your opponent can't enter your spawn... those are commonplace for a reason.

Here's the thing... if you're losing so badly that you're getting spawncamped... I get it. But honestly... those who are shooting down 'mechs before they even land... that should not even count towards their score. This isn't even about being honorable... it's just stupid. Look, I can kill people before they have a chance to move or shoot back... look how awesome my score is!

This is the mindset that keeps defending spawncamping as somehow positive and necessary for the game... when it just isn't.

There's no GOOD reason for it to be allowed.

As far as trying... I'm all for trying, as long as there's a chance for victory. When 4-6 out of 12 players burn through their drops with senseless kamikaze charges, I don't know that all the trying in the world will make that much of a difference for the other players on the team. Sometimes, maybe... but often not.

That being said, I stuck around and I'm still trying.

J

[metallio]

JeremiahRose, on 14 August 2017 - 02:16 PM, said:

Again... thank you for your words.
J

One more thing, about the spawn camping...don't take it to heart. It's just necessary. If you're losing that badly, just let it go in a blaze of alpha glory where possible and ready up the next game. Spawn camping finishes things far faster than dragging out the humiliating defeat, so just run with it when you're stuck with it. If you're really bored you can start shouting for a duel in /all...doesn't usually happen but there are players out there that will take you up on it and it's a lot of fun when it works.

Keep playing if you have enough games to enjoy it. It's worth a little investment and it sounds like you're starting to have a better day of it.

[Commander A9]

JeremiahRose, on 14 August 2017 - 02:21 PM, said:

I'd say the game isn't fun when you can't win the game by yourself...

Emphasis on the second paragraph...

Edited by Commander A9, 14 August 2017 - 02:37 PM.

[Tarl Cabot]

metallio, on 14 August 2017 - 02:21 PM, said:

One more thing, about the spawn camping...don't take it to heart. It's just necessary. If you're losing that badly, just let it go in a blaze of alpha glory where possible and ready up the next game. Spawn camping finishes things far faster than dragging out the humiliating defeat, so just run with it when you're stuck with it. If you're really bored you can start shouting for a duel in /all...doesn't usually happen but there are players out there that will take you up on it and it's a lot of fun when it works.

Keep playing if you have enough games to enjoy it. It's worth a little investment and it sounds like you're starting to have a better day of it.

Since arty and air strikes were brought up, while not include a FEW flights to lay down strikes while the dropship is incoming instead of just the dropship's lasers?

As for spawncamping that is going to happen if you allow the fight to happen closer to your base while being decimated very quickly without putting some hurt on your opponent, etc etc. Simply have to roll with it so the game can end quickly then move onto the next. I will say I did have one drop where we only took out 2 vs our 12 but we did hurt them badly. So bad that the incoming dropships killed 6 as we were dropping. Go Go dropship gunner!!! Was hilarious!

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 14 August 2017 - 02:59 PM.

[JeremiahRose]

Commander A9, on 14 August 2017 - 02:32 PM, said:

Emphasis on the second paragraph...

Context is everything. Read my WHOLE sentence next time.

If you're forced to try to win on your own but you can't, that's not fun. I never said that I wanted to win by myself. That's the complete opposite of the goal of the format. It's just that you're forced to when you can't count on half of your team to do anything resembling the mission.

[justcallme A S H]

JeremiahRose, on 14 August 2017 - 08:07 AM, said:

You're a real charmer, eh? My loadouts are fine, thank you. And there simply isn't enough information to determine my tactics... but it's nice to see how you've assumed. But please... enlighten me. Talk to me about my tactics.

Spawncamping is camping in an opponent's spawn and killing them before/as they spawn. Sitting in your own spawn is not spawncamping. That's just being a coward.

1. So post up some example builds then?

2. Well your first post is worded extremely poorly then. It seems to imply SIEGE given comments like "defenders" and "attackers". There are no defenders in QP modes within FP. So if you aren't even clear about what mode your examples refer to - people are not going to understand.