209 replies to this topic

[Leone]

@Op, re:Spawn camping.
When I go camping, I pitch a tent, start a fire and sit around hangin' out. Maybe go meander for a bit, but generally stay in one place. So, in my lexicon, spawncamping is when you sit around waiting for your spawn to get overrun. Apologies for the miscommunication. When I'm shooting folk droppin' in, it's because I've not been sittin' around, but tromp across the whole map to get into the fray. Heck, if they let me spend 10% of my tonnage to take a phoenix hawk up an engage the dropship as it's comin' in, I'd do it. Every time.

Now as for metallio's advice, I cannot agree with it all. we approach the game differently it seems.

metallio, on 14 August 2017 - 02:05 PM, said:

You hang back, skirmish a little bit to force the enemy to not steamroll, then back into cover and let the heavy armor find some locks. Stay at their heels and adjust as necessary.

I feel this sorta thing is what leads to getting overrun. You gotta move up, sure, into cover, and skirmish, but you cannot rely on your team to shield you. Especially if'n your firing long range missiles. Those are just asking the enemy to push up on ya and get closer faster to deny them their firepower.

So, when I tell you I disagree with them on their premise, but agree on the theme of their post, I want you to understand that this is coming from someone with a completely different philosophy and approach to the game.

metallio, on 14 August 2017 - 02:05 PM, said:

No, it's not fancy, but it damn sure works. After that? Play enough that you've got a good feel for how a game ebbs and flows...then manipulate your team-mates by aggressively attacking an avenue you want them to take and do it where they can see you move...then back off and flank. If it works right you've taken some damage and the slow mass of your team has moved up about the time the enemy decides to shoot back. That's what you want your team doing anyway, so you move to the side and beat up stragglers who are overheating.

....

Be aggressive, discover how the enemy is expecting you to attack and then do something different.

I mean, sure I advocate continuing to advance, leading by example and keeping your team moving, but I don't care about my own score. I can completely agree with Metallio's decision to peel once wounded for greater survivability and a better personal score, I've just not found many a pug group willing to keep the momentum going, and've seen many a push stall to great ruin without leadership.

Always be moving. It's not just for lights, though it's where I learned it.

I pretty much just run solo CW with my IS alt, an it's been over a year since I've died in my spawn, because I'm always out defending it, every match.

"Only you can prevent your drop-zone from getting overrun!"

~Leone

Edited by Leone, 14 August 2017 - 06:28 PM.

[JeremiahRose]

Case in point, I played a PUG today. The opposing team was mostly KCom.

2-3 members of my team spammed voice with how amazing KCom is and how the game was already over before it began.

The map was the one where the gates are quite far apart, so we really had to choose... thankfully, everyone stayed together to the same gate. We lost one before the gates even opened, and then lost most of the force at the gate. By the time they dropped in their 2nd 'mechs, about 1/3 of the enemy force was already laying fire on our spawn.

From there, it went from bad to worse, with most of us never getting out of spawn.

I will say that I got some decent shots in, and did some damage, but honestly... with 3-4 players firing at you before/as you land, you won't last long.

Did we lose because of poor morale? Did we lose because the other team was vastly superior? Honestly, there are a number of reasons why we lost... but after my 2nd drop it became about as un-fun as it can be.

Did I disconnect like some of my teammates? No. I dropped and tried the whole time.

There really wasn't more that I could have done.

Did I have fun? Sure, at the start... then I just wanted it to be over so I could find a new match.

Did the other team have fun? It sure seemed like it from the chatter... who wouldn't enjoy getting easy kills, right?

I'm not going to whine about it... what's done is done... but I'm sure some reading this will blame my builds, my skill, my morale... I'm sure it's all my fault, right? I communicate, and I take direction when given.

I would say that more of my FC PUG matches end like this than any other way. I just keep playing in the hopes that I can get a game in that ends differently. (I did start scouting out TS channels, so I'm hoping that I can get some games that way)

Feel free to flame away. I write this for those who can read it without attacking and belittling.

Leone, on 14 August 2017 - 06:27 PM, said:

@Op, re:Spawn camping.
When I go camping, I pitch a tent, start a fire and sit around hangin' out. Maybe go meander for a bit, but generally stay in one place. So, in my lexicon, spawncamping is when you sit around waiting for your spawn to get overrun. Apologies for the miscommunication. When I'm shooting folk droppin' in, it's because I've not been sittin' around, but tromp across the whole map to get into the fray. Heck, if they let me spend 10% of my tonnage to take a phoenix hawk up an engage the dropship as it's comin' in, I'd do it. Every time.

I've been playing FPS games for a long, long time. In my lexicon, spawncamping is sitting just outside someone's spawn zone.

http://www.urbandict...spawn%20camping

But I understand the confusion. I'm all for leaving the spawn and charging.

[justcallme A S H]

You should really group up and go drop with even a half experienced group and/or unit.

That is FP. If you don't want to do that, you're gonna keep having the issues you are.

That said by the sound of it - if you already lost a mech before getting in the gate... Well... That is just again, bad play. Not using strikes effectively etc. KCom like to stack a gate, if you can work out where they are (and most maps this is possible), you use that to your advantage and strike the be-jesus out of them.

We lost to KCom on Boreal attack - arguably the worst map to attack on, but it came down to the last wave because the first wave we stayed outside the gates and used effective strikes and positioning against them. It was one of the better games I've had in the past month without a doubt, same for the boys on the other side (I drop with KCom a lot in FP/QP).

After the match we all hopped onto each others TS's and said "well done" irrespective of winning or losing, why? Because that is what you do as a good team vs another good team when you all know and respect each other and constantly share pilots around (when our contracts align)

Edited by justcallme A S H, 14 August 2017 - 07:24 PM.

[JeremiahRose]

Right, so... you're saying PUGs really shouldn't be a part of this, as they rarely result in positive outcomes... right?

But yes... I lost a 'mech before getting into the gate, along with 3/4 of my team. We're all just terrible, awful players. Got it. Thank you for the inspired words.

[justcallme A S H]

JeremiahRose, on 14 August 2017 - 07:34 PM, said:

Right, so... you're saying PUGs really shouldn't be a part of this, as they rarely result in positive outcomes... right?

But yes... I lost a 'mech before getting into the gate, along with 3/4 of my team. We're all just terrible, awful players. Got it. Thank you for the inspired words.

You say you've read this:



Did you just blot out the part where it says "organised mechwarriors" "team cohesion" - that refers to teams. If you drop solo you are going to have a bad time and it's clear you are.

The solution is right in front of you. If you don't want to take it on-board (whatever reason you have, I don't really care) that is fine, otherwise, accept teams will steamroll you and keep solo dropping - or don't.

Edited by justcallme A S H, 14 August 2017 - 07:44 PM.

[JeremiahRose]

Boy, you sure told me.

Keep posting that graphic, it's really awesome.

Or, you could just ignore this thread and move on... but that just doesn't seem like you at this point.

[justcallme A S H]

Well you're ignoring all the advice that people are freely giving you to try and help you to... Help yourself, improve your experience and thus gameplay & enjoyment.

It seems you don't want to though and would prefer to be stomped and then come here negative about it rather than actually do something about it.

If it was mean, I'd so something about it - and I did cause I didn't enjoy 300dmg game stomps. I'm now one of the main drop callers for my unit, 2k dmg is a standard game & I constantly run groups where anyone is welcome (Anyone on the FRR Hub or StranaM Public TS Hubs can back that up)...

Each to their own I guess.

[JeremiahRose]

Actually, I'm taking most of the advice that's been offered. It's just that most people can offer it without being insulting or condescending.

If I want to come here and post more for others to read, I fail to see why that's such a problem for you.

I know that I'm not alone in how I feel about things, but hey... if it bothers you so much, I'll just ignore your opposition to my posts.

[feeWAIVER]

JeremiahRose, on 14 August 2017 - 08:13 PM, said:

Actually, I'm taking most of the advice that's been offered. It's just that most people can offer it without being insulting or condescending.

If I want to come here and post more for others to read, I fail to see why that's such a problem for you.

I know that I'm not alone in how I feel about things, but hey... if it bothers you so much, I'll just ignore your opposition to my posts.

How much damage do you do in a typical FP game?
If it isn't a hard minimum of 1200, you shouldn't be there.
You should be doing 2k+.

If you aren't doing that damage, then you aren't living long enough, or hitting or shots, and you aren't going to have a good time because you're part of the problem.

If you are hitting that damage, then you need to find a unit that plays at the same time as you.
You can start with a weak unit of similar players and trade up as you get better.
Each new unit will teach you new ways to think about the game.

At least, that was my experience.
YMMV

[metallio]

feeWAIVER, on 14 August 2017 - 08:52 PM, said:

How much damage do you do in a typical FP game?
If it isn't a hard minimum of 1200, you shouldn't be there.
You should be doing 2k+.

If you aren't doing that damage, then you aren't living long enough, or hitting or shots, and you aren't going to have a good time because you're part of the problem.

If you are hitting that damage, then you need to find a unit that plays at the same time as you.
You can start with a weak unit of similar players and trade up as you get better.
Each new unit will teach you new ways to think about the game.

At least, that was my experience.
YMMV

The vast, VAST majority of my FP wins the average score was much lower than that on my team. There's usually 1-2 maybe 3 people scoring over 1500 damage. Sometimes they're over 2000, occasionally 3000...but the rest of the team is around 1000 and less. That's with the top scorers doing less than 2000.

So I'm not seeing those numbers as honest advice.

[Pat Kell]

metallio, on 15 August 2017 - 11:50 AM, said:

The vast, VAST majority of my FP wins the average score was much lower than that on my team. There's usually 1-2 maybe 3 people scoring over 1500 damage. Sometimes they're over 2000, occasionally 3000...but the rest of the team is around 1000 and less. That's with the top scorers doing less than 2000.

So I'm not seeing those numbers as honest advice.

I see it from time to time. When the winning side is using a lot of SRM's or LRM's or they tend to spread their damage around a bit. If you are seeing matches where the higher damage is around 1500 or so, either the winning team was pretty good at hitting CT or the losing side wasn't very good at torso twisting. Likely both were in play. Two good teams playing each other will usually end up with higher scores because while both sides may be good at hitting, both sides are also good at twisting off that damage. They are honest, just not for every match and the disparate skill levels of the two sides tend to determine the damage levels.

[naterist]

faction really needs a split que. if you put everyone whos asked for a unit/solo split que into a solo que, then the current que would continue to ghost drop and the solo droppers would have a fully active, running que.

litterally the only reason they havent added a good attempt at a solo que is because theres a vocal minority fighting it, and even they are disappearing as their dream, nosplit que, fails and they leave.

not in the least shocked that continuing on as if nothings wrong is killing the mode. (whispers* this is the part where i say i told you so).

Edited by naterist, 15 August 2017 - 07:26 PM.

[MischiefSC]

JeremiahRose, on 14 August 2017 - 07:34 PM, said:

Right, so... you're saying PUGs really shouldn't be a part of this, as they rarely result in positive outcomes... right?

But yes... I lost a 'mech before getting into the gate, along with 3/4 of my team. We're all just terrible, awful players. Got it. Thank you for the inspired words.

So here's the other side of that situation -

You wait 10 minutes to drop, you get a match. The other team all but quits immediately, several take lights and just squirrel trying to hide. A couple spend the whole match insulting you in all chat and because you're not a jackass you just ignore it and don't respond. The other team walks 100m from their DZ and stops to hide, you spend the first 6 minutes of the match just walking toward the other teams DZ just to get to fight.

At this point you're at the enemy DZ because that's where they decided to fight. What do you do? Walk another 5 minutes back to the middle of the map and wait for them? Eject so they feel it's "fair"?

I get your frustration, I absolutely do. Much like a bad QP team your teammates shafted you before you even dropped. So the match got ended as quickly as possible because the other options are mostly worse.

The best advice that can be give is always "get away from your DZ as fast and as far as possible, force the fight as close to the other DZ as you can". Do that and you'll always get 4 full mechs to fight it out with. Call your teammates out and point that out....

And accept that sometimes you're going to have a bad match. We do too sometimes. Don't get hung up on it, just queue up and drop again.

Also, please. Get with a few other people before you drop. Pugging exists to help fill out teams, a team of pugs is an invitation to a bad time.

[Leggin Ho]

naterist, on 15 August 2017 - 07:26 PM, said:

faction really needs a split que. if you put everyone whos asked for a unit/solo split que into a solo que, then the current que would continue to ghost drop and the solo droppers would have a fully active, running que.

litterally the only reason they havent added a good attempt at a solo que is because theres a vocal minority fighting it, and even they are disappearing as their dream, nosplit que, fails and they leave.

not in the least shocked that continuing on as if nothings wrong is killing the mode. (whispers* this is the part where i say i told you so).

Here comes the pitch yet again..........

[Marquis De Lafayette]

naterist, on 15 August 2017 - 07:26 PM, said:

faction really needs a split que. if you put everyone whos asked for a unit/solo split que into a solo que, then the current que would continue to ghost drop and the solo droppers would have a fully active, running que.

litterally the only reason they havent added a good attempt at a solo que is because theres a vocal minority fighting it, and even they are disappearing as their dream, nosplit que, fails and they leave.

not in the least shocked that continuing on as if nothings wrong is killing the mode. (whispers* this is the part where i say i told you so).

C'mon Nat....you weren't even playing FW when they tried the Solo queue at the beginning of phase 3....so, your statements are not even from experience, but what you want to believe happened. I was a big fan of the solo queue, as I was in it... It's fine to advocate for it, just keep it grounded in fact. Back then the solo-queue was well advertised, we had a much bigger population and it still flopped. Now, what we didn't have was one bucket per side (edit: for attacking...we did have one big bucket for defenders in Clan vs. IS) or the ability for tagged folks to drop in it. So, it's possible with those things it maybe could work for solo players. However, adding that would likely screw up matchmaking for teams as most of the time teams are dropping less than twelve. If you had a 9 man and all the solos were in the solo queue, you would be dependent on finding a 3-man. That could be tough these days and as FW is made for groups, would be a big problem as groups like that might have impossibly long search times. So, what PGI could do to make the solo-queue viable, could well mess up the group queue. I doubt PGI wants to revisit this for that reason alone. It probably has nothing to do with what is said here or elsewhere.

Also. I can't see how you link people leaving to the non-split queue failing. People leave because of the unfullfilled promises of the mode. Single buckets (per side), Non-split queue works fine in matchmaking (edit: in that matches actually do happen within a generally reasonable amount of waiting time....vs. impossibly long times or not happening)...it's not as fun as when we truly had factions...but it's not "failing".

Edit: if they truly want to try a new solo-queue without messing up the "main queue"....do a solo queue for free-lancers only. They are generally new players, as they don't have Faction rewards and thus experienced players are less likely to even put an alt in there. It would be a "starter-experience" for FW...where they could see the mode and the maps...without getting farmed by sync-drops, tier 1 alts, etc. PGI hasn't done anything with the free-lancer path anyway...so, it would be easy to make that a starter mode. You could even use that as sort of a gate (which some experienced players...not me...have asked for)....new players have to do 20 matches as a freelancer , before they get to choose another path. Maybe even put a 50-100 game cap on that path, to give the new folks time to adjust and keep experienced players from just farming noobs. Just spitballing here.

Edited by Marquis De Lafayette, 17 August 2017 - 08:34 AM.

[KinLuu]

The Faction Play gamemode in its current form, with a completely open and unrestricted matchmaker, can be extremely unforgiving on inexperienced or lesser skilled players. And no, you don’t need to join a unit – most of them are pure potato anyways – you simply need to become a better player.

Once you get your gameplay to a high enough level and once you can reproduce said level consistently, you will have a positive influence on your games. You will not be able to win every single game, but that would be quite a tough goal to achieve. Even if you join one of the “better” FP units, you will still lose games here and there.

So, my advice to anyone struggling in FP would be to either accept the fact that you cannot win every game and work hard on improving yourself, or to play in Quick Play, which is a far more forgiving gamemode for a new or subpar player.

Edited by KinLuu, 17 August 2017 - 11:28 AM.

[B0oN]

Lol, another fruitless thread about solopuggles in a teambased gamemode .

Jeremiah, if it ain´t fun then why not just cut your losses and either find a team, play QP or something else entirely ?

Solo noobs/bads/terribads and their laziness/unwillingness to teamplay were ALWAYS a problem in CW and might always be, since PGI will not really dare to impose filtering gates on CW to keep out the plebs, scrubs, 6finger-muppets, sockpuppets and suicidal derps .

[Commander A9]

For all the talk about spawn camping...

...let's talk about those players who decide to forcibly disconnect from the match, deliberately eject from their mechs to hasten their ending their gameplay, or run off, power down, and hide somewhere with their faces to the walls when their teams are losing...

[naterist]

Leggin Ho, on 16 August 2017 - 11:02 PM, said:

Here comes the pitch yet again..........

Well ive suggested decent alternatives that never gain traction, like letting solos and groups of < 3 only que if theyre filler for a larger group. Itd at least ensure that no 12pugs or noobs to the mode running into a top teir 12 man. Theres then a core of coordination in every team there, and pugs are still included, and even in a position to get recruited.

[Wing 0]

naterist, on 15 August 2017 - 07:26 PM, said:

faction really needs a split que. if you put everyone whos asked for a unit/solo split que into a solo que, then the current que would continue to ghost drop and the solo droppers would have a fully active, running que.

litterally the only reason they havent added a good attempt at a solo que is because theres a vocal minority fighting it, and even they are disappearing as their dream, nosplit que, fails and they leave.

not in the least shocked that continuing on as if nothings wrong is killing the mode. (whispers* this is the part where i say i told you so).

Naterist. First of all, How many times do we need this to get through that ******** skull of yours. Splitting the queues in faction play has ALREADY FAILED. You were not even here when we had that happened and it was a disaster. The Pugs failed it and PGI was forced to undue the change in Phase 3. You were not even here when CW first started back from the VERY BEGINNING called PHASE 1. I said it before and ill say it again. Faction Play mode will never work with matchmaker PERIOD. I know what I speak of because 1 of the past games I have played on that had matchmaker running and due to the limitations it had been allowed to do and what not, caused that game to not only fail on the road but also forced the vendors to shut it down. Yes there were free to play titles in the past that a CW mode but failed because of matchmaker.

I still have not gotten answer from YOU awhile back about how you would make matchmaker work here. If you have one then lets hear it. But let me warn you one thing before you actually do. Whatever you propose, I will know right off the bat if it will fail without question due to the knowledge and what past games failed on using matchmaker. So do me a favor and DO NOT test me.

Btw JeremiahRose. You best be careful with the retardency you are making right now. Its really taxing a lot of players. Ash gave you exactly what you should've learned by and the fact you kept arguing him about it is not a good thing especially against players who done more than what you have done. Ive seen how many games you've done and its an embarrassment. You havn't done at least 100 games yet and you only have done 22 and then you come on to these forums and ***** because you got murdered by players who play the mode in its general outline. Like Ash's picture said. You don't follow that outline, then you will fail.