209 replies to this topic

[Marius Evander]

One bukkit was about reducing queue times , one bukkit mades it less casual friendly not more by removing your ability to avoid the best teams as easily.

[A Shoddy Rental Mech]

Cadoazreal, on 03 September 2017 - 11:25 PM, said:

One bukkit was about reducing queue times , one bukkit mades it less casual friendly not more by removing your ability to avoid the best teams as easily.

Easiest way to avoid the good teams is to join them. Go Clan.

Edited by The Nerf Bat, 03 September 2017 - 11:57 PM.

[vonJerg]

S!

Although I am usually on the receiving end of KCom, EVIL,... I agree that once you launch you should give 110% of your ability to win. Anything less would be an insult to both your team and your opponent as well.
Some say that after a wave or two the side that is obviously superior should restrain it's might and give some slack to inferior team. Dunno what you expect them to do? Should one pilot shutdown/disco, what ever? All 24 of us launched to play the game, shoot mechs, try as hard as we can to win, not to just sit there and do nothing.
"Spawn camping", pushing into the enemy spawn point IMHO is legit tactic, you are simply preventing enemy reinforcements from entering the battle. You are cutting their supply lines.
For those that like lore, perhaps, if PGI increase lobby time from 1min to like 3min with ability to see player composition on both sides, there would be enough time for batchall and drop deck adjustments for those that feel like it. But that would be highly optional.

[Carl Vickers]

vonJerg, on 04 September 2017 - 01:10 AM, said:

S!

Although I am usually on the receiving end of KCom, EVIL,... I agree that once you launch you should give 110% of your ability to win. Anything less would be an insult to both your team and your opponent as well.
Some say that after a wave or two the side that is obviously superior should restrain it's might and give some slack to inferior team. Dunno what you expect them to do? Should one pilot shutdown/disco, what ever? All 24 of us launched to play the game, shoot mechs, try as hard as we can to win, not to just sit there and do nothing.
"Spawn camping", pushing into the enemy spawn point IMHO is legit tactic, you are simply preventing enemy reinforcements from entering the battle. You are cutting their supply lines.
For those that like lore, perhaps, if PGI increase lobby time from 1min to like 3min with ability to see player composition on both sides, there would be enough time for batchall and drop deck adjustments for those that feel like it. But that would be highly optional.

This guy has the right attitude.

[MischiefSC]

Cadoazreal, on 03 September 2017 - 11:18 PM, said:

Were arguing that basketball with 20 + diiferent skill levels of competition is the same as mwo having 2-3 different divisions of skill level and that people in the middle of the field should have to play against either Michael Jordan or 5 year olds, nothing in between.

And that portland and indiana quit end of last season because they dont want to play with phoenix and brookyln, not because the top teams beat them 80 - 20.

No, we've got 4 leagues.

Pug queue, group queue, FW and comp. Plus private matches.

The problem is people playing high school ball saying they should get to play at the NBA level for NBA checks and get the accolades of winning the NBA finals - but because the NBA teams are too good, they want to play in the NBA but only against other high school (or worse) teams and that the NBA should be designed around high school team skill level because there's more high school and casual corner court basketball players than NBA teams.

We already have a variety of environments. If someone wants to play like a pug they can play in pug queue. I'm all for, 100%, all the FW content being available for the pug queue. Have a separate pug queue with the FW content but even more simplified or whatever. Have existing FW content with respawns. Whatever is going to float peoples boats.

Destroying FW as an environment that focuses on teamwork, because it's the only real teamwork focused section of the game, to make it more 'pug friendly' instead of giving the existing pug queues the content, is a bad idea and will result in only 1 thing - more of the team oriented players leaving. That's it. The pugs won't stay until you make FW just like pug queue and they can take their bad mechs and play badly and pretend that's doing okay.

Quit trying to destroy FW. PGI is doing that just fine on their own.

[MischiefSC]

Cadoazreal, on 03 September 2017 - 11:25 PM, said:

One bukkit was about reducing queue times , one bukkit mades it less casual friendly not more by removing your ability to avoid the best teams as easily.

Everyone hates 1 bukkit. Everyone should hate 1 bukkit. The idea was to make it more pug friendly though - because PGI doesn't ever seem to understand what the actual consequences of their choices are in FW. Ever. Jesus, look at Long Tom. They left that in for like a year with people begging, constantly, for them to remove it. In twitter, forums, reports, everywhere. There was nowhere that anyone was ever, at any point, not saying that LT needed to go and was voiding the population.

Yet Russ still seemed surprised when he got told it was a problem in the first roundtable.

1 Bukkit was supposed to make it easier for pug players to get into it and find matches, among other things.

There is no 'pug friendly' FW because FW is designed around teamwork. Pug teams that use teamwork destroy teams that don't use teamwork the same way a good team using teamwork does. Because of respawns, objectives and map design FW always plays like that. That's the whole point of FW - it's the teamwork focused part of the game. It doesn't need made like QP. We already have QP.

[Jugger Grimrod]

The Nerf Bat, on 03 September 2017 - 11:54 PM, said:

Easiest way to avoid the good teams is to join them. Go Clan.

Don't you mean, go Merc?

[A Shoddy Rental Mech]

Jugger Grimrod, on 04 September 2017 - 11:05 AM, said:

Don't you mean, go Merc?

Nope.
A merc might accidentally end up on an I.S. contract.
It's a safer bet to go clan loyalist.

[Insanity09]

I was arguing for good sportsmanship.

I believe it would result in a greater learning experience for the newer/less-skilled players, and a better challenge for the ones creaming them (which many claim to want).

All in all, more fun for everyone, which might actually bring more people into the mode, or at least slow down the attrition.

Alas.

[Marius Evander]

Insanity09, on 04 September 2017 - 06:14 PM, said:

I was arguing for good sportsmanship.

I believe it would result in a greater learning experience for the newer/less-skilled players, and a better challenge for the ones creaming them (which many claim to want).

All in all, more fun for everyone, which might actually bring more people into the mode, or at least slow down the attrition.

Alas.

People dont like to be helpd unless they ask for help. If you tell an Atlas pilot he would have better results if he didnt bring lrms and an xl engine hes more likely to say foff than thanks. But when someone asks for help people are willing to.

However you cant ask people to throw games that defeats the reaon ppl play. For fun/to win/ to earn cbills for new mechs to have fun.

[Terrastras Rex]

JeremiahRose, on 14 August 2017 - 07:13 PM, said:

Case in point, I played a PUG today. The opposing team was mostly KCom.

2-3 members of my team spammed voice with how amazing KCom is and how the game was already over before it began.

The map was the one where the gates are quite far apart, so we really had to choose... thankfully, everyone stayed together to the same gate. We lost one before the gates even opened, and then lost most of the force at the gate. By the time they dropped in their 2nd 'mechs, about 1/3 of the enemy force was already laying fire on our spawn.

From there, it went from bad to worse, with most of us never getting out of spawn.

Heh, that sucks bro. ;D I also echoed many of your complaints when I was starting FW .. getting stomped is never any fun. ;D

Now that I'm in a unit tho, I've learned enough and can explain the phenomenon you've described above ^^.

After your first two waves collided and did battle, the defenders had damaged mechs.. you don't want to fight with those damaged mechs vs a fresh second wave [you may get beaten, and omega gen rushed], so the only option remaining is to push out the gates. =D

The proper reaction for the second wave attacking force is to go to the opposite doors, forcing the defenders that pushed out to eject. [so they can get back to base in new mechs, and defend an omega gen rush]

if the first wave attackers dont push all at once, and the cowards lag behind the brave, the coward attackers will get caught from behind (on their second mechs) as the defenders push out.

so.. be brave. deathball and rush. all together. =D

[Insanity09]

Okay, this so-called rebuttal is stale.

Sportsmanship does NOT NOT NOT equal throwing the matches. Where the heck are people pulling that from?

[McGoat]

This thread in general is stale.

[Pat Kell]

Insanity09, on 05 September 2017 - 09:34 AM, said:

Okay, this so-called rebuttal is stale.

Sportsmanship does NOT NOT NOT equal throwing the matches. Where the heck are people pulling that from?

You can claim that you are not suggesting that we throw matches but I promise you, if people don't give it their all and pull back to let the enemy regroup instead of being aggressive, that will be the end result. It won't be an intentional thing, it will just happen. People will lose. I know this because it has happen to me in the past....so I don't hold back any more and I won't start doing it now because you are trying to make us look bad or attach some negative connotation to winning, even winning in a decisive manner such as 48-12 etc. Losing a match when you are not trying you hardest, whether it's intentional or not, doesn't really matter. You still lost.

I understand that it's not fun to be on the receiving end of a 48-12 loss but I also know it's not fun to lose by a base rush or a gen rush or any other legitimate tactic that is used. That has happened to me before and I have found that the best way to prevent that is to prevent the enemy from grouping up or forming any kind of strategy at all.

You are begging for sportsmanship by asking people to pull back some, don't rush spawns, give the enemy the "illusion" that they had a fighting chance. That is not good sportsmanship in my opinion, that is condescending and disrespectful from my point of view and I won't do it. Good day.

[Marquis De Lafayette]

The Nerf Bat, on 03 September 2017 - 11:54 PM, said:

Easiest way to avoid the good teams is to join them. Go Clan.

I get where you are going with this and do see a potential profit advantage to pile into one side (planet MC)....however...Loyalist leaderboard is pretty worthless for what you are trying to say....it hasn't been reset in a couple of seasons, so some of those units aren't active or aren't loyalist anymore. 07 (Bacon) has been Merc for civil war and are trying out the IS side at the moment.

More Merc units are jumping loyalist now as they have maxed out rewards...Yes, it's Clan-side but the units that have done so were generally Clan side for the most part as Mercs.

[MischiefSC]

Insanity09, on 05 September 2017 - 09:34 AM, said:

Okay, this so-called rebuttal is stale.

Sportsmanship does NOT NOT NOT equal throwing the matches. Where the heck are people pulling that from?

Because you're saying it equates to 'holding back', which is the exact same thing. Good sportsmanship is doing your best and being respectful, win or lose. Good sportsmanship is not giving the other player the false impression that they're doing okay.

The reality is that we do good sportsmanship all the time and some people recognize that. On Grim Portico the other night, the pug team we were playing was very, very timidly creeping up to the gate. So we just jumped out and attacked, rocked them all the way back to their dropships. They never opened a gate and absolutely no question we were shooting them around their DZs -

However if we'd stayed inside, I want to be absolutely clear, we could have ended that match 48-0. Attacking Grim Portico is tough for a team and suicide for casual pugs vs a team. Instead we push out and it ends 18 to 48 or so. We end the match quickly but we end it by fighting, which is what everyone on both teams largely wants.

[JeremiahRose]

Wow, this thread has added a lot since I was last here.

I have seen good points made from many people. I agree with some, and disagree with others.

Ultimately, I think we can all agree that CW itself has some fundamental flaws... and I think that asking players to modify their behavior to make up for those flaws is the wrong approach. People shouldn't have to change their game... it's up to the hosts of that game to fix it. Clearly, PGI has other priorities.

Personally, I don't think a surrender button would help, either.

I do think that there are other ways to fix it, but it's all just talk unless PGI decides to do something about it.
(A few ideas would be: 1. When the enemy has at least 400 total tons of 'mechs in the opponent's spawn zone, the match should end. The only reason to continue it is to allow the winning team to pad their scores, and while everyone loves winning, it's completely unfun for the losing side. The match should end. Or 2. enhance the idea behind the dropship weapons and add some random mines, etc. that only target the opposing side. You can come and spawncamp, but don't expect to survive for long. Honestly, the second one wouldn't really curb the behavior... I just think the match should end.)

Also, 'mechs should not be able to receive damage while they are inside the dropships. That's across the board. You're in an armored transport... but for some reason, shots go through it. That's just broken. I mean, thematically, I get it... but seriously, the fact that a light 'mech can be legged/destroyed pretty easily before it even gets out of the dropship makes no sense. Again... if this is a possibility, the match should have ended already.

[Grus]

The Nerf Bat, on 03 September 2017 - 11:54 PM, said:

Easiest way to avoid the good teams is to join them. Go Clan.

aww shiznit ARC7 in the top 20!!

[Commander A9]

Want to discuss unpopular topics?

We just waited for 10-15 minutes for a damn ghost drop.

We're now searching for a second ghost drop.

An IS pilot reports he's still searching too...

So that means 24 people, in the entirety of this game, are getting Faction Warfare matches right now...and we're a damn 12-man!

PGI, you have got to get more people up in here...otherwise this mode really will go belly-up...

Or better yet, since we've got Tukayyid, Tharkad, Luthien, and now Terra, just call it Clan Victory Season 1 and reset the damn map like you always do. XD

Edited by Commander A9, 06 September 2017 - 06:23 PM.

[Carl Vickers]

Event is over so puggles dont want to get face mashed by units anymore.