28 replies to this topic

[FLG 01]

Since recently several threads dealt with even more new weapons, Sarna.net was frequently used as a source when it came to finding out the introduction dates of those weapons. The problem is that Sarna, while awesome, is a fanproject, not canon itself, and sometimes just wrong. In case of the introduction dates, often the prototype date is displayed and mistaken by some (overly wishful) users for production dates.

Currently MWO has a TechBase set in the Civil War era. It generally does not include prototype equipment, with the exception of the L-AMS (and even that might just be a misunderstanding).

So here is a comprehensive list of all the weapons and equipment of the Civil War era (3062-3067) which PGI did not implement. Obviously melee weapons and certain Tech not represented in MWO anyway (UMU, C3, etc.) will not be on that list. I am using the Universal Technology Advancement Table from the Interstellar Operations Sourcebook, which a complete and recent canon source.


Clan:

ER Flamer (intro 3067, cf. IO p.41)
Heavy Flamer (intro 3067, cf. IO p.41)
Laser Heat Sinks (intro 3051, cf. IO p.42)

Inner Sphere:

Light Active Probe (intro 3052, cf. IO p.40)
Light TAG (intro 3053, cf. IO p.41)
Single-Shot (OS) Missile Launchers (intro 2676, ret. 3030, cf. IO p.46)*
Improved NARC Launcher (intro 3062, cf. IO p.46)
Small Cockpit (intro 3067, cf. IO p.39)
Heavy Duty Gyro (intro 3067, cf. IO p.48)
XL-Gyro (intro 3067, cf. IO p.48)
Large LFE (intro 3065, cf. IO p.44)



*strangely it is a weapon exclusively for the IS according to the IO, despite the fact that in the novel Blood Legacy featured a Clan OS SRM launcher (cf. ch.19). Not that it matters, nobody would use it.


So did we miss much? I do not think so. Some stuff is hard to balance and implement, and probably was excluded on purpose like the small cockpit.

The new flamers might be nice for troll builds but they are still flamers. The only good and easy item on the list is the IS Light Active Probe: because it has the same stats as the C-LAP it would be a notable improvement over the much heavier and bulkier BAP. For a third of the weight you get an almost as effective piece of equipment.

But even the IS-LAP is not a game changer. While PGI forgot to include a few things (and I really suspect they just did not know), there is no critical omission.

Edited by FLG 01, 07 August 2018 - 07:34 AM.

[Gagis]

How much later is the Plasma Rifle? I was under the impression it was Civil War era too.

It probably wouldn't have a place in MWO since its selling point is that its an all-rounder that is great against infantry and vehicles, good against aerospace and decent against mechs. It's still my favourite weapon.

[FLG 01]

Plasma Rifle is 3068; there are actually many 3068 weapons (HAG, MG Arrays, LACs...). The Plasma Rifle might very well be a cool and interesting weapon, but I am glad MWO sticks to the Civil War-era. Btw., the Clan Plasma Cannon is 3069.

[Dr Hobo]

FLG 01, on 19 August 2017 - 10:33 AM, said:

Plasma Rifle is 3068; there are actually many 3068 weapons (HAG, MG Arrays, LACs...). The Plasma Rifle might very well be a cool and interesting weapon, but I am glad MWO sticks to the Civil War-era. Btw., the Clan Plasma Cannon is 3069.

To be fair,I'd love to see plasma weapons in game,as long as they were around AC/10 levels of ammo and toasty.

LACs would be useful,not sure on MG arrays other than on mechs that boat them,and HAG..I don't think PGIs coders could figure out how to do that without a nasty bout of problems.

[Spheroid]

There was no reason not to include LAC. They could have been balanced by DPS per ton vs. std autocannon.

[The Basilisk]

Carefull there, Plasmacannon is just an oversized flamer that does no physical damage versus Battlemech grade armor. (lots of heats as sudden "heatshock" though, 2d6)

The Plasmarifle is game play wise nothing but a ammo based PPC without min range, only 450m long range and an additional heat component to its damage (deals 1d6 heat to target)

[FantasticMrDark]

Some PPC Capacitors would be nice, maybe with a charge up mechanic like Gauss Rifles to help balance them out a little.

[El Bandito]

We still lack older weapons such as ARROW IV, Binary Laser Cannon, Mech mounted Long Tom, and Thunder LRM... To be fair, Clan HLL is basically Binary Laser Cannon.

Edited by El Bandito, 19 August 2017 - 11:28 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

For me, what I would have liked to see more than anything we didn't get is XL Gyro and Small Cockpit. Those two items together help the LFE out as an alternative to the XL engine. Were those FCCW era or Jihad?

[FLG 01]

Yeonne Greene, on 19 August 2017 - 11:27 AM, said:

For me, what I would have liked to see more than anything we didn't get is XL Gyro and Small Cockpit. Those two items together help the LFE out as an alternative to the XL engine. Were those FCCW era or Jihad?

Both 3067, so FCCW. But I guess they are not possible in MWO, which is a shame.

El Bandito, on 19 August 2017 - 11:24 AM, said:

We still lack older weapons such as ARROW IV, Binary Laser Cannon, Mech mounted Long Tom, and Thunder LRM... To be fair, Clan HLL is basically Binary Laser Cannon.

Well, there are a number of missile launcher munitions I would love to see, especially infernos.
Regarding the Binary Laser Cannon... it's a strange case. Technically it is experimental until 3077 but it is a perfected weapon in the 30th century already - and in limited production. Its experimental status is really just to keep the weapon out of tournament legal builds. Too bad, I would love it and I think we should have it.

[Y E O N N E]

FLG 01, on 19 August 2017 - 11:37 AM, said:

Both 3067, so FCCW. But I guess they are not possible in MWO, which is a shame.

Awesome. I dunno about possibility, it seems treating them as an upgrade switch that lock out select slots, open up new ones, and increase available tonnage is well within the realm of MWO's capabilities.

[Spheroid]

@Yeonne: I oppose small cockpits because they would completely obsolete std cockpits in all builds. MWO's lack of crit system prevents the TT downsides it came with originally.

People say STD engines are obsolete but I see value of still using them in many of my builds, I do not see that being the case with small cockpits. Even lame single heat sinks have some niche builds.

I totally support additional gyros, especially compact which frees up three slots in the CT.

Edited by Spheroid, 19 August 2017 - 11:43 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

Spheroid, on 19 August 2017 - 11:42 AM, said:

@Yeonne: I oppose small cockpits because they would completely obsolete std cockpits in all builds. MWO's lack of crit system prevents the TT downsides it came with originally.

People say STD engines are obsolete but I see value of still using them in many of my builds, I do not see that being the case with small cockpits. Even lame single heat sinks have some niche builds.

I totally support additional gyros, especially compact which frees up three slots in the CT.

Small cockpits are supposed to make a 'Mech more difficult to pilot, so you could provide some counterplay by applying a 5-10% reduction to agility attributes witha Small Cockpit installed. I wouldn't put a Small Cockpit on brawling builds which need to twist and fire quickly, but for a dakka DPS build they would be great. A poke build using that would depend on the type of poke and the specific 'Mech.

[Requiemking]

Yeonne Greene, on 19 August 2017 - 11:50 AM, said:

Small cockpits are supposed to make a 'Mech more difficult to pilot, so you could provide some counterplay by applying a 5-10% reduction to agility attributes witha Small Cockpit installed. I wouldn't put a Small Cockpit on brawling builds which need to twist and fire quickly, but for a dakka DPS build they would be great. A poke build using that would depend on the type of poke and the specific 'Mech.

Plus, it would make Light mechs(and variants) somewhat more viable.

[Elrarion]

Sarna says it takes up half the bulk so I believe that would be 2 crit slots. - http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Compact_Gyro
Compact Gyro sounds like it could be fairly strong on a mech that has hardpoints in the CT. Or just another alternative to free up crit slots in exchange for tonnage.

[KursedVixen]

The Basilisk, on 19 August 2017 - 10:55 AM, said:

Carefull there, Plasmacannon is just an oversized flamer that does no physical damage versus Battlemech grade armor. (lots of heats as sudden "heatshock" though, 2d6)

The Plasmarifle is game play wise nothing but a ammo based PPC without min range, only 450m long range and an additional heat component to its damage (deals 1d6 heat to target)

actuall the Is plamsa cannon or the clan does some damage as well as heat damage.....
https://www.sarna.ne...ki/Plasma_Rifle

Edited by KursedVixen, 03 August 2018 - 02:59 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

i still feel Tech such as the Small Cockpits & XL Gyros would also help with some IS Balance,
(Cockpits & Gyros! Is Cockpit & Gyro Options?)

having both would only cost you 1Crit(-2Crits from CT & +1Crit in Head)
but could give you access to 1.5Tons(100Rating Engine) to 3Tons(305 or higherRating Engine)
such would midigate the need for IS Ferro, which doesnt fix IS vs Clan Ferro / Endo Balanace, but could help,

Endo + SmallCockpit + XLGyro = 15Crits and +5Tons on a 250LFE 50Ton IS-Mech,
C-Endo + C-Ferro = 14Crits and +4.25Tons on a 250XL 50Ton C-Mech,
which could help as IS weapons are still Heavier,

[MechaBattler]

Small cockpit would also open up options for mechs with head mounted weapons. Snub PPC or LPL in the head? :3

[Abaddun]

Thunderbolt missiles seem like a very obvious counterpart to Clan ATMs.

[LordNothing]

i want the weapons we could have had in the 3050s but didnt because pgi. arrow iv, blazers, inferno srm, etc. i will buy an arrowcat.

Edited by LordNothing, 03 August 2018 - 06:05 PM.